Popular weapons *PWN* better ones in RPGs

[Whisky]

Much like how many unglorious things get sidelined in pieces of fiction, such as plate armor becoming a big metal diaper during battle, the humble dagger will never get its day in the spotlight.

 

[Clockwork Knight]

These arguments never end because for every katana fanboy who believes it can cut through tanks (including the five soldiers in power armor inside) there is someone waiting to tell them it's actually ultra shitty toothpick that has a 10% chance of decapitating the user every round (which is not true either, FYI. It's only 2%)

not to mention "katana" is as specific as "sword", so in the end it's less about the weapons themselves and more about e-peen contest of cultures

 

[Immortal]

Much like how many unglorious things get sidelined in pieces of fiction, such as plate armor becoming a big metal diaper during battle, the humble dagger will never get its day in the spotlight.

Unless it's dual wielded and has some stupid design that is more likely to cut you then an enemy..

Spoiler

 

[Whisky]

Much like how many unglorious things get sidelined in pieces of fiction, such as plate armor becoming a big metal diaper during battle, the humble dagger will never get its day in the spotlight.

Unless it's dual wielded and has some stupid design that is more likely to cut you then an enemy..

Spoiler

That's not a dagger that's...

Uh...

Fuck if I know.

 

[Clockwork Knight]

It's a daedric crescent.

 

[Immortal]

It's a davidgaidric crescent.

 

[dryan]

Much like how many unglorious things get sidelined in pieces of fiction, such as plate armor becoming a big metal diaper during battle, the humble dagger will never get its day in the spotlight.

Unless it's dual wielded and has some stupid design that is more likely to cut you then an enemy..

Spoiler

Pics like this make me realize that I'm a retard for having played this fucking thing 8+ times.

 

[kris]

This is the most underrated weapon in RPGs:

And I suspect the humble dagger has killed more men than swords. Easy to manufacture, easy to wield, easy to conceal, and easy to slide through chinks in armor. Probably killed more Frenchmen at Agincourt then the arrows ever did.

Well, especially since arrows are proven to not penetrate plate armour

 

[Immortal]

played this fucking thing 8+ times.

Well that's one way of developing early age cancer.

 

[SymbolicFrank]

Unless it's dual wielded and has some stupid design that is more likely to cut you then an enemy..

Yes. The dual lightsabres in star wars take the moronic crown for that. Especially if you see the fights.

 

[shihonage]

How do you come up with shit as gay as this
Do you even fence?

lul

That's just a touchy-feely justification for why katana wasn't as bad as it looks like. I too could write peans about Polish cross-cutting art (which is mostly forgotten and was probably overhyped as well otherways it wouldn't be forgotten ).

The arts teaching katana use are forgotten? Maybe in Poland.

In the end the more options you have the harder the opponent must work to anticipate and defend. If he can parry and attack, and you can only attack it's not good for you.

With katana you attack and deflect. Sword-on-sword contact happens, but it is gliding off instead of stopping. You also learn to generate power with light movement which can knock opponent's sword out. The options where you stop are just martially inferior options, great for movie scenes where the villain will say something menacing to protagonist while they're both trying to damage their swords. Or lightsabers.

Retaining the energy is more important with heavier weapon, and it means you have less options again - you don't want to change the velocity too quickly, so you are slower to react.

Again, heaviness isn't a universal failure, just like lightness isn't universally better.

BTW a nice video of original sabre from XVIIIth century, weights 0.580 kg

Looks more bendy than katana, much lighter. Advantages: speed, maneuverability. Disadvantages: likely less effective in context of light armor or perhaps heavy winter clothes. Could break easier, or be knocked out due to 1h.

By the way, I don't speak Japanese, have no interest in visiting Japan, and can't stand the sight of anime.

 

[Johannes]

By the way, I don't speak Japanese, have no interest in visiting Japan, and can't stand the sight of anime.

Where did you pick up this retardo katana worship then? Your Aikido pals?

How do you come up with shit as gay as this
Do you even fence?

lul.

So you're talking out of your ass basically. Why do you pretend to be an expert in something you've no experience in

 

[dryan]

Szczerbiec is the best sword in existence. Fuck this jap nonsense.

 

[shihonage]

So you're talking out of your ass basically. Why do you pretend to be an expert in something you've no experience in

You should keep namedropping "fencing" in katana context, it totally doesn't make you look stupid or anything

Where did you pick up this retardo katana worship then?

Perhaps you should find a more constructive way to vent the anger at that memory where you were forced to dress as ninja every Halloween by your new parents ever since you got lost at the mall

 

[Clockwork Knight]

My parents make me dress like Naruto, so I never get lost

Yes. The dual lightsabres in star wars take the moronic crown for that. Especially if you see the fights.

The people that use them have borderline-magical superhuman reflexes, capable of deflecting laser blasts like they were ping pong balls. They can manage not to cut themselves.

 

[Damned Registrations]

I think a large degree of the respect/fanboyism for katanas comes from their historical context. The katana is a cavalry sword, made in a time and place where both steel and horses were especially rare and expensive. In other parts of the world, barbarian hordes might have horsemen with scimitars or whatever, or the grunts on the field might carry swords, but the katana was the weapon of officers and elite soldiers. Poorfags got spears. It has similar connotations as the lance (knighthood and so forth), without the hangups of a lance's very specialized use.

Japan was also pretty much undeniably the most advance in regards to swordsmithing, most likely due to the above reasons. Katanas aside, they also made ceremonial swords for shrines and such that were very impressive (due to their size, the method of making them became very difficult), as opposed to simply being decked out in gold and jewels.

 

[Johannes]

So you're talking out of your ass basically. Why do you pretend to be an expert in something you've no experience in

You should keep namedropping "fencing" in katana context, it totally doesn't make you look stupid or anything

Where did you pick up this retardo katana worship then?

Perhaps you should find a more constructive way to vent the anger at that memory where you were forced to dress as ninja every Halloween by your new parents ever since you got lost at the mall

Fencing = fighting with swords. Katana is a sword. You parry and attack with a katana pretty much exactly like you do with a longsword, even when there are the obvious subtle differences in their designs.

But very witty way to avoid the question.

 

[Lilura]

These topics always bring out the ballistic experts, history professors, commandos, samurai and ninjas. Codex are a talented bunch!

 

[shihonage]

Fencing = fighting with swords. Katana is a sword. You parry and attack with a katana pretty much exactly like you do with a longsword, even when there are the obvious subtle differences in their designs.

Fencing weapons are for one-on-one duels only, with unarmored opponents. They're mainly thrusting weapons. Katanas are for a variety of war scenarios, including armored and multiple opponents. They're mainly cutting weapons.

Fencing has superior speed and reach, but a katana wielder only needs to land one blow.

A fencer would very likely win "points" in competition, or draw first blood in a real duel, but a samurai would just as likely murder him in the end. All it takes is one slip.

 

[Immortal]

I knew this shit was gonna happen.. Every Fucking time

Why this thread went to shit

 

[Clockwork Knight]

You can use a sabre (cutting sword) for fencing.

 

[Johannes]

Fighting with swords = fencing. English, motherfucker, do you speak it? Sports fencing is a different thing, and has little to do with actual martial arts.

And katana needs just 1 hit to kill, really? Same goes for about any sword on unarmored target.

 

[Clockwork Knight]

John Romero's Katana

won't kill you in one hit

but it will make you his bitch

Sugoi it down

 

[Daemongar]

Just so happens I read this article yesterday, complete with citations, on the unrealistic perception of swords and katanas in popular culture.
http://www.thearma.org/essays/damagededge.htm#.VCDO4aMo7cd

For those too lazy to read (ie: the 99%) Both weapons suck for regular use. You are better off with a pike or a big hammer. Both become useless with regular use and become nicked, chipped, and gauged and are very often compared to saw-blades after regular use. Katanas were shit for parrying. People didn't parry with swords unless it was a last resort/shield was destroyed due to high damage on the sword. Bucklers aren't worthless(!)

Most tellingly however, is how the Fechtmeister Joachim Meyer described in his fencing treatise of 1570 an inferior form of defense he called, Auffangen, or “Catching” (i.e., a direct static edge- on-edge block). According to Meyer, this was a simple block wherein the opponent’s attack—rather than ideally being deflected off or struck down—was instead stopped by directly interposing your weapon in its path. Essentially an edge parry of desperation, Meyer acknowledged it was sometimes necessary, yet he clearly recognized that it conferred no particular advantage and even specifically recommended against doing it. It is this very thing, which he says not to do, that is so frequently employed by unenlightened students of historical fencing today.

Note: I'm not in the Association of Renaissance Martial Arts or whatever. I play Hackmaster and some guy posted this link. It's pretty good.

 

[laclongquan]

This is also one reason why Fallout Tactics was bashed so hard initially. They want a successor to Fallout 2, not a spiritual successor to Jagged Alliance 2.

For fuck's sake people. It's a fucking combat management, personel management, inventory management rpg. It's JA2 with a heavier dose of rpg spice. It's not NOT NOT a fucking pure RPG with attention to spare for writings. Who give a fuck about a gun's background in such a game like JA2 or FT or Silent Storm, really?

RPGfag, is who.

Eh? That's exactly what endear FOT to us: it try to cleave to reality abit more.

The concept of shooting like firehose instead of taking aimed shot is realistic as fuck. You are American, I am sure you can find at your fingertip a magazine article listed the amount of bullets shot per estimated wound in Iraq. The number is just insane. So in FOT, when you shoot like free bullets, it's pretty realistic and I love them for it.

Sniping, especially at mid game when we deal with tough supermutants, fall to cover shoot. How you use it is to get high ground and let snipers autoshoot any one within their HUGE range to draw them toward ambush zone you have prepared. In late game you use callshot eye to get a golden bb on robot. Also autoshoot, because TB shoot is terrible slow.

AK-clone instead of FNFAL because a very simple central concept of AK: durability. You throw it into a mudhole. One week later pick it up, do a simple clean then shoot. That's what it is: durable. Belgian and US guns has one similar huge weakness: they are too complicated and require constant maintainance. There's the basis behind why so many AK survive but not much US guns.

Honey you are in the army now. O ooooo you are in the army now.

The problem is that Fallout is NOT our reality, it diverged sometime after WWII. Its a alternate universe, that means most if not all guns that existed in our reality after WWII never existed in Fallout. AK47 did. Only RL gun in the original Fallout was the Desert Eagle and the single Mauser wielded by Gizmo. All the others were alternate universe gear. Fallout 2 broke the trend, to much critic. FOT is also much criticized for it.

I am a WHAT?! I am the BRAZILIAN Slaughter, not the AMERICAN Slaughter!
Yes, I know that in all wars people shoot a lot more bullets than hits, but in FOT called shots are useless. Out-sniping your foes is useless, you have to get the biggest, strongest, fastest-firing gun and unload on the enemy. Compare to the original Fallouts, where both cold sniping and unloading a bullet storm on the enemy were viable tactics with the proper build. Snipers are useless in FOT, especially in late-game.

I don't mind AKs in the wasteland, they would do well there, but everyone in FOT midgame used a AK47, it was strange.

AK's in wasteland is a logical. Even children could do its maintenance, that's why 12 year olds in Africa can use it.

Only problem is that It's kinda weird to have all those AK's since they're a Soviet weapon. Considering Fallout's setting, I don't think there'd be many Soviet weapons in America.

AK47 in Wasteland is logical... if there was some background on it. As it is, a lot of AK47 suddently appear, no explanations given. A good comparison is how the .45 Pistol (Browing HP 1911) is presented in Fallout New Vegas - Its the signature weapon of New Canaan, they still craft it there, learning how to shoot it is a rite of passage for every Mormon and Joshua Graham says it was made by a member of their tribe hour hundred years ago. Problem is, the world ended in 2077, and by then the AK47 was a 100-years old museum piece. Original Fallouts had a AK112, it would make more sense if something like that showed up. AK47 showing up like if the world ended in a 50s nuclear war and everyone in post-apoc 2080 was using 1850s civil war era repeaters.

And it wans't just the AK47. Pretty much all FOT guns were WWI and WWII gear, with the remaining one being modern real world weapons (thus canon-breaking). So it was either museum pieces, weapons that didn't exist or Fallout science fiction weapons.

Fallout's USSR was friendly to America - Probrably a flip from RL (where China was friendly to America), also with how many AKs and such there are in the USA even in our world, I don't find it unbelivable to have soviet weapons in Fallout's America.