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Popular weapons *PWN* better ones in RPGs

Damned Registrations

Furry Weeaboo Nazi Nihilist
Joined
Feb 24, 2007
Messages
15,815
Differential quenching isn't folding. It involves cooling different parts of the blade at different rates so the steel changes to different states.

Why do you suppose not a single smith in all of europe entered their mythology? Seems kind of odd. Plenty of their artists and scientists did.
 

Serus

Arcane
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Differential quenching isn't folding. It involves cooling different parts of the blade at different rates so the steel changes to different states.

Why do you suppose not a single smith in all of europe entered their mythology? Seems kind of odd. Plenty of their artists and scientists did.
WTF ? There are several of those in various european mythologies, ancient greek one, german, nordic ones, etc... Why they didn't entered japanese mythology - you aren't serious :D ?
If you meant something else - then please clarify.
 
Joined
Apr 3, 2006
Messages
1,386
Much like how many unglorious things get sidelined in pieces of fiction, such as plate armor becoming a big metal diaper during battle, the humble dagger will never get its day in the spotlight.

Unless it's dual wielded and has some stupid design that is more likely to cut you then an enemy..

2560-2-1301955767.jpg
:retarded: Those useless hunks of twisted metal strapped to her shoulder look lethal -- to her. One blow to the shoulder and she'll lose half her face to her own armor. If there's one thing pop-a-mole fantasy RPG designers love more than impractical weapons it's armor that's actually dangerous to it's wearer.

Anyhow, the pollaxe needs moar love in RPGs: effective anti-armor and anti-cavalry weapon with good melee defensive properties (note the reinforced hafts). Unfortunately developers would rather blow their animation budgets on having the PC roll around on the floor like a dipstick than on implementing polearm combat.
3224321-9902021319-Polea.jpg
 

SymbolicFrank

Magister
Joined
Mar 24, 2010
Messages
1,674
So if you're playing a game with guns in them, and you don't drop dead/disabled once you take a shot from pretty much anything, you're playing a HIGHLY unrealistic game by default. Most other inconsistencies about guns in games come from developers making compromises with this fantasy, that you can actually make a game with guns, and trying to make a playable game. And particular guns in games are just art and labels - if you feel bad about one gun being better than another you just swap the artwork and change the label and all your gripes are solved. That's how marginal and unimportant the whole subject is.
Yes. That's why I like to play Deus Ex on Realistic difficulty, and after modding the weapons to do actually realistic damage.

Hint: make sure you don't get hit.
 

SymbolicFrank

Magister
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The demand for gunpowder was insatiable. Kings, dukes, counts and petty lords loved their new bombards and arquebuses. The more gunpowder they used, the more they wanted. Gunpowder was a fortuitous mix of sulphur, charcoal and saltpeter. It was that last ingredient that was the most vital and the hardest to obtain. Saltpeter is a nitrate salt – usually calcium nitrate – and nobody knew how to make it. Except for some microscopic bacteria, which produced the nitrates as byproducts of eating. Since the bacteria would have to wait another 500 years to be discovered, the Europeans concluded that saltpeter was spontaneously produced by what the bacteria ate – poop.

Saltpeter was the white frosting one found on poop that had been given time to settle and get comfortable. It was the white icing that grew on barnyard floors, on wet and rotting walls. It layered urinals and cesspits. It even found a home on the floors of people’s huts and manor halls, which were carpeted with reeds, rotting food, sundry varieties of cross species waste, and of course, dog feces. Saltpeter was born of a filthy womb (the medieval Europeans had a more relaxed view of cleanliness), but it was miraculous stuff. Many, if not most, were convinced that the explosive transformation saltpeter wrought on sulphur and charcoal was the work of the Devil.

Rulers needed gunpowder. Gunpowder needed saltpeter. And saltpeter needed poop. And so, the dukes declared a monopoly on their land’s waste. State employees – seasoned professionals called petermen – went from house to house, digging up barns, scraping up urine covered walls and latrines, sifting through manure and rotting vegetation – harvesting saltpeter. But there was never enough of it, and it didn’t help that the medievals did not appreciate having their floors scraped (cleaned) and their latrines violated (cleaned).

And so was born the profession of saltpeter farming. Medieval entrepreneurs found opportunity in poop. There was plenty of it and if they threw it all into a specially prepared pit and let it do its thing, in little more than a year, they could make an easy silver piece or two – even gold! It smelt bad, but it was lucrative.

Saltpeter farming launched a business boom not dissimilar to Silicon Valley in spirit. An untold number of operations were born – not in garages (they didn’t have them yet) – but in backyards. Soon, an entire process and methodology evolved, and saltpeter production became efficient – although they never really could make enough of it. The farmers learnt how to use the soluble properties of the saltpeter to purify and concentrate it. They learnt how to build pits that worked optimally. They learnt how best to use every and anything that had a tendency to fester. They gathered and saved every piece of s*** they could find. They even figured out the sort of poop that made the best saltpeter. For the best kind of poop was actually urine, the best urine came from drunkards, and the best drunkards, or so the farmers claimed, were Catholic bishops.
Definitely. But, as you quoted, you need an oxygen carrier, likely a nitrate. The other stuff is just fuel.

At that time, they didn't understand that. But nowadays we do. Mixing a gunpowder analog isn't all that hard, if you know what you're doing.

The most common ingredient is actually fertilizer.
 

DDZ

Red blood, white skin, blue collar
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Codex 2013 Codex 2014 PC RPG Website of the Year, 2015
In the great RPG Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 2, the FN FAL is definitely better than the m16.

Infinity Wart best rpg designers, really know their shit.
 

Nikaido

Arcane
In My Safe Space
Joined
Sep 14, 2013
Messages
521
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9th Hell

Retards who have played too many RPG tend to act like the Zweihander (and the enormous RPG derivatives) is the only shield-less sword and sword-fighting style. I blame the developers too because the association of "longsword" with "sword and board" in RPGs is ridiculous and needs to stop. Traditional longsword fighting is done 2 handed but most rpgs give you no incentive to do that as you gain a lot of benefit from wielding shields and almost none, if ever, for 2handing a longsword. That's for RPGs where you have a lot of freedom over your character abilities, games like The Witcher don't fall for that trap for obvious reasons.
 
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SymbolicFrank

Magister
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Retards who have played too many RPG tend to act like the Zweihander (and the enormous RPG derivatives) is the only shield-less sword and sword-fighting style. I blame the developers too because the association of "longsword" with "sword and board" in RPGs is ridiculous and needs to stop. Traditional longsword fighting is done 2 handed but most rpgs give you no incentive to do that as you gain a lot of benefit from wielding shields and almost none, if ever, for 2handing a longsword. That's for RPGs where you have a lot of freedom over your character abilities, games like The Witcher don't fall for that trap for obvious reasons.
The thing is, as a knight in shiny (plate) armor, you're not fighting longswords. You're mostly fighting soldiers with spears, which have a long reach.

The other thing you might encounter occasionally, is other knights in plate armor, either using giant swords, or sticks with a heavy clump of metal at the end, in various lengths.

In both cases, you're best off doing the smart thing, which is the same thing as the soldiers do: use a weapon with a long reach, so the enemies cannot reach you with their weapons.

And/or something like a maul, so you're pretty sure the first hit is completely devastating. But that poses problems against multiple enemies, because it's a very slow weapon.

That's why you want friends, and probably all armed with large, two-handed swords. So you have just as much reach, and can both bash (against armor) and slice (against spears and their bearers). And even pierce, by grabbing the lowest, blunt part of the blade and using it as a short spear.

Edit: Those swords were unlikely to last for more than a single battle.
 
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SymbolicFrank

Magister
Joined
Mar 24, 2010
Messages
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Btw, bashing armor with a sword is done with the sharp side, to minimize the contact area. It will blunt the sword.

But if your opponent goes down, that doesn't matter. Because that means you might survive.
 

Monad

Learned
Joined
Jun 24, 2012
Messages
192
katana being much better than an European broadsword in all respects

Katana is hard enough, but also flexible - it reverberates so it doesn't get stuck when going through human body. It's long enough but not exceedingly so. It has weight, but is not heavy enough to lose effectiveness if you lose muscle mass. It allows powerful cutting without losing balance or creating large openings for counterattack.

If I was stuck in a zombie apocalypse and had to choose a blunt weapon, I'd find an abandoned dojo to loot, and stock up on katanas.
Sure, it's a good enough weapon. But not really any better than a comparable sword (blade length, hilt length) of other cultures. Katana is not something unique, it's basically a two-handed, short saber if you'd put it to western terms.

Actually no, if I remember right the katana is a significantly better weapon than its european counterparts.
 

Mystary!

Arcane
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Holmia
People didn't parry with swords [...]

People did parry with swords, as a last resort.

I'd say it depends on the defintion of parrying. They did parry, but parrying is not blocking, as most people believe. Simply blocking with a sword was, and is, ill-adviced as it would just leave you open for another attack, but would sometimes be the only option. Parrying on the other hand usually referred to a counter-attack, deflecting an incoming blade and attacking in the same motion, which is the preferred option.
 

JarlFrank

I like Thief THIS much
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Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
P. fitting analogy for sure

An analogy that won't make sense until you study how to use a katana and stop thinking of sword fights as two metal sticks clashing with one another repeatedly.

I saw skallagrim is apparently on the Codex and brofisted someone's post here, which reminded me of a p. good video he did on katana fanboyism once:


Also this British guy did a good one:


Basically: The katana is a p. good sword but it's not "better" than European or other Asian or Middle Eastern sowrds because there is no such thing as a perfect sword, just different types of swords with different fighting styles and different uses in combat. In RPG terms, it has different stats to common western longswords, but it doesn't have superior stats in all aspects.
 

drae

Augur
Joined
Aug 9, 2013
Messages
179
Katanas are for a variety of war scenarios, including armored and multiple opponents. They're mainly cutting weapons.

Nah, not really. Katanas excel at dealing with flesh and have an excellent draw slice, they could deal with armoured opponents, but remember you bypass armour with a sword by thrusting at the joints in the armour. The katana is an inferior thrusting weapon and therefore wasn't as capable at dealing with armoured opponents, which stands to reason as the armour they had to deal with in Japan was inferior to the armour people needed to bypass in Europe. If memory serves the katana failed to deal with even the Chinese studded armour effectively.

The two-handed longswords knights wielded in Europe were for a variety of scenarios, being excellent at both slicing and thrusting they could adapt to different scenarios easier. It also had a longer reach than the katana while weighing the same (the katana has a wedge.)

In short, I find the katana to be a specialised 2-handed weapon which doesn't deal with multiple scenarios nearly as effectively as other swords or weapons.
 
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Glass Fields, Ruins of Old Iran
Not everyone has armor covering their entire body forcing you to poke through the holes in order to score a hit, though. Slash away at an unprotected part and you're good.

In the great RPG Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 2, the FN FAL is definitely better than the m16.

Infinity Wart best rpg designers, really know their shit.

They might as well be slingshots compared to the knife.



More lethal than a katana...:salute:
 

Norfleet

Moderator
Joined
Jun 3, 2005
Messages
12,250
Not everyone has armor covering their entire body forcing you to poke through the holes in order to score a hit, though. Slash away at an unprotected part and you're good.
That's pretty much what the weapon was designed for: European swords are made in an environment where high-quality metal exists in relatively plentiful quantities and therefore many people have armor. Japanese swords are made in an environment where few people have any armor and absolutely nobody would have a full suit of metal armor due to the lack of metal. Every weapon is adapted to the environment it has to work in.
 
Joined
Mar 28, 2014
Messages
4,234
RPG Wokedex Strap Yourselves In
Not everyone has armor covering their entire body forcing you to poke through the holes in order to score a hit, though. Slash away at an unprotected part and you're good.
That's pretty much what the weapon was designed for: European swords are made in an environment where high-quality metal exists in relatively plentiful quantities and therefore many people have armor. Japanese swords are made in an environment where few people have any armor and absolutely nobody would have a full suit of metal armor due to the lack of metal. Every weapon is adapted to the environment it has to work in.

So people running on the streets with katanas in modern/cyberpunk settings actually make sense, who would've thought.
 
Unwanted

a Goat

Unwanted
Dumbfuck Edgy Vatnik
Joined
Jun 15, 2014
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Differential quenching isn't folding. It involves cooling different parts of the blade at different rates so the steel changes to different states.

Why do you suppose not a single smith in all of europe entered their mythology? Seems kind of odd. Plenty of their artists and scientists did.
Name one medieval European writer or painter living before black death epidemic.

In this period European artists weren't really recognised(black death and proto-renaissance changed it though), their works often weren't even signed. When it comes to craftsmen - they're pretty much anonymous thanks to guild structure which contributed to spreading the knowledge about their techniques further. That's why you can hear about "Italian/Mediolan Armour-smiths" and not about Gayeano Faggotto the Master Dildomaker.
 

laclongquan

Arcane
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Guy guy, no matter how you avoid the question, it's a fact that we know one or two Japanese bladesmith's names. And know dick all about Swedish/Scandinavian/European/Italian/Roman bladesmith from antiquity to modern age. DICK. ALL.

Chinese bladesmith, I suspect east asians in general can remember one or two: Gan Jiang, Mo Ye. And they are way old, before even the Three Kingdoms period at least 500 years. Thanks to a few chinese old novels, I suppose.

I know you want to down-grade the level of Japanese blademithing, but it's damn hard to do so.
 

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