Game News Prepare to Die: Dark Souls PC Officially Announced

[mbpopolano24]

Oh, and ArcutursXIV, thanks for the info but if your anger management problems are due to the many months you spent trying to finish game, I also would rather DECLINE.

 

[Antagonist]

Then I read that you cannot save, rather there is an automatic save function… Is this true? 'cause if it is this is true then I DECLINE (I get that some people need to get punished to get their dick up, but I don't like it).

Yes, the game automatically saves your progress every few seconds or when something notable happened ingame (killed an enemy, opened inventory, etc.) and you don't have any control over it. No save scumming in Dark Souls I'm afraid.
And as usual: Watching someone play is not the same as playing yourself. On a YouTube video everything looks trivial, like getting double S rating in DMC3 on the hardest difficulty.
About the boar (at the undead burg entrance I presume): Don't presume to understand what the player did there. The boar is heavily armored and all melee weapons I used back when I first played the game were practically useless. The backside is the only unarmored point if you don't resort to fire bombs or pyromancy. And that thing will fuck up many players but the most cautious ones on their first encounter either by being run over by that thing or the many supporting enemies in that area.

 

[nihil]

Both save game points and respawning enemies, are crap.

Not in a game like this. The bonfires replenish your (limited) supply of health flasks as well as enemies, so the game forces you to become good enough to traverse the different paths between bonfires "in one go", so to speak. And as mentioned they aren't save points. Everything is saved at all times in Dark Souls. Think roguelike with no true death.

 

[mbpopolano24]

Thanks Antagonist for clarifying it. it was pretty obvious, even in the YouTube video, that the 'impale on the ass' was a maneuver to kill an enemy otherwise impossible to kill (this is not a new concept, many games use a targeting of weak-spots to maximize damage, including my beloved Fallout); the retarded part is that it looks like you have to insert your weapon into the ass of the creature, but that is just an animation, not a big deal.

I have another question about the saving system, though: what happens if the game saves your progress in a spot from which you have no way to escape (let's say just before the boar is about to roll over you)? Do you need to start over from the beginning?

 

[Antagonist]

I have another question about the saving system, though: what happens if the game saves your progress in a spot from which you have no way to escape (let's say just before the boar is about to roll over you)? Do you need to start over from the beginning?

Whenever you die you will be respawned at the last bonfire you rested at. Unless you use a special one time item you will loose all souls and humanity. All enemies will respawn except bosses and mini-bosses (like the boar). You can retrieve the lost souls at the spot you perished as long don't die again in the meantime. Dying is part of the regular gameplay and not a dead end.

 

[mbpopolano24]

Sounds good. I'll give it a try.

 

[jewboy]

No save scumming in Dark Souls I'm afraid.

I really hate console kiddies. Hope you like playing the same bit of your little cartoon games over and over and over again. Could never understand the console kiddies' love of repetition. Even when I was 12 I quickly grew bored of doing the same things so many times.

Surely they will add the ability to save the game state for the PC port. Otherwise, the first time I have to repeat a sequence between checkpoints I will uninstall the game forever.

 

[Brayko]

If "doing the same things many times" nets me a good reward eventually I'm game...

 

[Kosmonaut]

I'm starting to get interested in this game, and now that there's the chance to play it in a PC, I'll give it a try. I hope that there will be a demo released. If not, well I will try the "extended" demo.

But right now, the most fun and satisfying thing about DS, is all the butthurt from the fanbois defending their beloved game.

Consoletards... Consoletards never change.

 

[Burning Bridges]

As to save save points, I could only begin to play games like Dark Corners of The Earth or Penumbra until I found a way to mod the crap out.

They only make sense in games with repetitious, linear gameplay, and to hell with that.

 

[Burning Bridges]

Wasn't replying to you.

Sorry, my mistake.

 

[Jasede]

This is so frustrating, you are just not getting it. What does it take to get through to you?
This is not a game like Penumbra or Dark Corners of the Earth. Trying to force a mechanic from those games into this kind of game is a recipe for disaster. Indeed, this game lives and thrives on its thought-out save-mechanic and checkpoint system. Every cog, every mechanic, every single enemy was placed with it in mind and it is an integral part of the experience.

Asking to save anywhere is like asking for enemies not to respawn when you reload in Wizardry 4, is like asking to save anywhere in Super Mario Bros, R-Type or Dance Dance Revolution. It just doesn't work that way. Completely different systems that require different modes of thought and play from what you are accustomed to.

Think of it like Nethack: if you save-scum in Nethack, all challenge and thrill is lost. You are robbing yourself of half the game. You are intended to play it iron-man, every time. If you scum, you are cheating and playing a different, inferior game. If you were able to save everywhere it'd be the same in Dark Souls. Try to consider this angle for a moment: the entire game was designed around this mechanic. You can't interfere with that. This is just the way it is meant to be.

If you do not enjoy that, then it's not your kind of game, but won't you stop making baseless comparisons?

 

[Burning Bridges]

Fair. It's really not my kind of game.

 

[ArcturusXIV]

What's wrong with making save game points that you can revisit and use as many times as you wish provided you can reach them like those in the old Resident Evil and Silent Hill games or in Call of Cthulhu: Dark Corners of Earth?

GFWL, Checkpoints with insta health-recover and respawning enemies...

Count me out.

I'll go for Mount and Blade and Legend of Grimrock instead.

I've already addressed this, but you can "save and quit" much like the Diablo 2 system. The checkpoints respawn enemies, but are only used when levelling up, or if you get nervous that you're going to die during the next game segment, so you want your respawn point to be closer to the enemies. The game is balanced around this system, and bonfires allow you to upgrade, both weapons and armor, level up, and repair your equipment, as well as being useful for recharging health vials. They are non-necessary if you are a good gamer and don't die a lot! (you will).

Most death can be prevented by caution, but there are times when enemies will unexpectedly jump down on your head (Blighttown) or do something nasty to kill you, though I know a couple gamers that played through the entire game, only dying once, or not at all.

Enemies do not respawn when you "save and quit" the game, and you do not need to be at a checkpoint, so all the bitching is unwarranted, esp. from people who have not played the game. Hell, the game is so well-balanced you won't even mind what system is being used 5-10 minutes into the first area, the narrative is so absorbing. World, check. Gameplay, check.

Really, this level of bitching by gamers who are just whinefags and haven't even touched such gaming greatness yet is unwarranted, and really, REALLY sad from the Codex...

I wonder just how much prejudice will keep people from playing the best game of the last 10-11 years.

 

[jewboy]

Sometimes I like to imagine a world where consoles were never invented. How frustrating it must be for consoletards to play a PC game and know that they can save anywhere and that if they save often enough they will never have to repeat the same section ever again. At least until they decide to replay the game from the beginning. That must be horrible for them. But unless I am mistaken there already is a version of the game for consoletards. I don't think most PC gamers have the endless patience necessary to play the same segment again and again and again. At that point I want to seek out the developers who made that design decision, grab them by the neck and start slamming their head against a wall, again and again and again, until they are dead.

 

[ArcturusXIV]

My only anger management issues are based around the idea that this game is so one-of-a-kind, and because it came out on console, people are hassling it without first picking up the controls and getting the idea.

It has taken me 17 years to find another dungeon crawl to rival Lands of Lore II, my favorite game of all time, since I came in near the end of the genre, and Dark Souls picks up the torch where that game left off, making it a truly rogue experience for new gamers.

None of my console brethren would pick up the game. "IT'Z TOO DIFFICULT!!1!" Seriously, people are spoiled by easy-to-categorize games.

Also, the enemies are not traditional goblin, elf, dwarf fodder. The world, the creatures, the bosses, are creative and endearing. I especially liked the Gaping Dragon, which gave me a sense of horror I don't usual experience in roleplaying games, where the lore rips on Tolkien fare without ever getting creative. This reminded me of a very dark, nasty fairytale, something more akin to a virtual nightmare with fantasy overtones than an actual fantasy game. It totally redefines the rules!

I think the game requires far more sense of intelligence, timing, and strategizing than to define it as an aRPG, anyway. It is more rhythmic than the button-mashing of a God of War, and if you don't keep your shield up, and learn tactics, especially environmental observation, and the behavior patterns of enemies (which ones can climb ladders), you are doomed to repeat mistakes, and will die more.

Secondly, though I replayed some sections 15 or more times, not once did I find myself stepping away from the controller, bored. A couple times I cried from frustration, but it was more my fault than anything. The variety of tactics is amazing, as you can backstab, knock someone off a ledge, kick someone, use a shield, parry, riposte, change weapons and use something ranged, switch your estus flasks for a firebomb then climb a ladder and bomb down on someone, use magic, use pyromancy (both with separate and well-defined advantages, and well as separate means of upgrading and advancing), sneak up on enemies, et cetera. There is no one way to play anything! You'll have to think laterally (creatively) if you want to defeat enemies, I restarted my first character at level 37 because a strength build no longer suited me, and Faith (clerical abilities) was no longer up my alley... Instead, I went with pyromancy, and found the way it was advanced equally intriguing to the gameplay and world, as it is heavily tied into exploration and questing, since you fetch separate spells separate places, and upgrade a piece of equipment from separate masters to advance it. Sorcery, on the other hand, has no BOOM! spells, but uses a lot better ranged attacks for picking archers off ledges that are otherwise un-attackable, but is advanced a completely separate route, by increasing intelligence, and again, finding masters to teach you the spells, once you impress them enough with quests or whatever they desire.

The game, also, is not handholding. Most of the Covenants, Quests, and so forth, are not obvious in the game. You may have to pound a wall to open a secret entrance, or shortcut, but some items tucked away in secret areas hid multi-stage quests, none of which were obvious, but opened up entirely new routes, or secret areas you would not have discovered without experimenting and puzzling through the game in a cerebral manner. The return to the undead asylum, and subsequent visit to the non-necessary Painted World being an example. There were three stages of questing just to get the ___ to unlock the entrance to that secret area, and it was HUGE, and well-worth exploring, with a variety of unique items and experiences in and of itself. Not to mention, not a single to clue to give you an idea the item unlocked ANYTHING, or that it was anything more than a piece of rubbish in your inventory.

If quest compasses make you cringe, this is your game... A skimpy manual and six months in a cave to solve this one.

And you'll still miss 60% of the gameplay if you're not paying attention.

 

[Jasede]

Sometimes I like to imagine a world where consoles were never invented. How frustrating it must be for consoletards to play a PC game and know that they can save anywhere and that if they save often enough they will never have to repeat the same section ever again. At least until they decide to replay the game from the beginning. That must be horrible for them. But unless I am mistaken there already is a version of the game for consoletards. I don't think most PC gamers have the endless patience necessary to play the same segment again and again and again. At that point I want to seek out the developers who made that design decision, grab them by the neck and start slamming their head against a wall, again and again and again, until they are dead.

This is so frustrating, you are just not getting it. What does it take to get through to you?
This is not a game like Penumbra or Dark Corners of the Earth. Trying to force a mechanic from those games into this kind of game is a recipe for disaster. Indeed, this game lives and thrives on its thought-out save-mechanic and checkpoint system. Every cog, every mechanic, every single enemy was placed with it in mind and it is an integral part of the experience.

Asking to save anywhere is like asking for enemies not to respawn when you reload in Wizardry 4, is like asking to save anywhere in Super Mario Bros, R-Type or Dance Dance Revolution. It just doesn't work that way. Completely different systems that require different modes of thought and play from what you are accustomed to.

Think of it like Nethack: if you save-scum in Nethack, all challenge and thrill is lost. You are robbing yourself of half the game. You are intended to play it iron-man, every time. If you scum, you are cheating and playing a different, inferior game. If you were able to save everywhere it'd be the same in Dark Souls. Try to consider this angle for a moment: the entire game was designed around this mechanic. You can't interfere with that. This is just the way it is meant to be.

If you do not enjoy that, then it's not your kind of game, but won't you stop making baseless comparisons?

Give it up, Arct. They're trolling. They know we like this game and it doesn't matter to them that they never played it. It doesn't even matter that it might be good. All that matters to them is that we keep replying and replying, amusing them constantly with our defense, as if they were receptive to any arguments.

 

[ArcturusXIV]

Sometimes I like to imagine a world where consoles were never invented. How frustrating it must be for consoletards to play a PC game and know that they can save anywhere and that if they save often enough they will never have to repeat the same section ever again. At least until they decide to replay the game from the beginning. That must be horrible for them. But unless I am mistaken there already is a version of the game for consoletards. I don't think most PC gamers have the endless patience necessary to play the same segment again and again and again. At that point I want to seek out the developers who made that design decision, grab them by the neck and start slamming their head against a wall, again and again and again, until they are dead.

Sometimes I want to slam people who do not get that it is cheating to save before a boss, then repeat the same segment everytime you make a mistake, rather than accepting consequences for your actions, or you cannot "reload" your last save if you make a bad decision during a quest, and just pick a new branching patch.

Oh, this game makes you decide your actions.

But it is not a checkpoint system of saves, it is save-anywhere, with dying being the only consequence, and the choice of checkpoints a choice between upgrading and restoring health potions, but subsequently respawning the area, or going on and taking the chance of dying and maybe having to atone for your mistake (which was intention, by the way--there is no such thing as a "false" death in this game, it is all your fault for not paying careful attention to the environment and enemies' strategies) by going back a few steps (maybe 5-10 minutes of gameplay) to redo what you obvious did wrong in the first place, because you were a DUMBFUCK!!

Then again, PC gamers are sometimes spoiled in recent years to consequences, unlike roguelike players who know they may lose their character in the ironman mode of the game if they happen to make a false move.

 

[ArcturusXIV]

Sometimes I like to imagine a world where consoles were never invented. How frustrating it must be for consoletards to play a PC game and know that they can save anywhere and that if they save often enough they will never have to repeat the same section ever again. At least until they decide to replay the game from the beginning. That must be horrible for them. But unless I am mistaken there already is a version of the game for consoletards. I don't think most PC gamers have the endless patience necessary to play the same segment again and again and again. At that point I want to seek out the developers who made that design decision, grab them by the neck and start slamming their head against a wall, again and again and again, until they are dead.

This is so frustrating, you are just not getting it. What does it take to get through to you?
This is not a game like Penumbra or Dark Corners of the Earth. Trying to force a mechanic from those games into this kind of game is a recipe for disaster. Indeed, this game lives and thrives on its thought-out save-mechanic and checkpoint system. Every cog, every mechanic, every single enemy was placed with it in mind and it is an integral part of the experience.

Asking to save anywhere is like asking for enemies not to respawn when you reload in Wizardry 4, is like asking to save anywhere in Super Mario Bros, R-Type or Dance Dance Revolution. It just doesn't work that way. Completely different systems that require different modes of thought and play from what you are accustomed to.

Think of it like Nethack: if you save-scum in Nethack, all challenge and thrill is lost. You are robbing yourself of half the game. You are intended to play it iron-man, every time. If you scum, you are cheating and playing a different, inferior game. If you were able to save everywhere it'd be the same in Dark Souls. Try to consider this angle for a moment: the entire game was designed around this mechanic. You can't interfere with that. This is just the way it is meant to be.

If you do not enjoy that, then it's not your kind of game, but won't you stop making baseless comparisons?

Give it up, Arct. They're trolling. They know we like this game and it doesn't matter to them that they never played it. It doesn't even matter that it might be good. All that matters to them is that we keep replying and replying, amusing them constantly with our defense, as if they were receptive to any arguments.

Fair. There is only one person they are going to deprive of fun with this breed of cynicism, anyway.

 

[Jasede]

You probably have Asperger's, this is why this is making you so angry.

You know a good way of making an assburgers victim angry? Hold up a green sign that has "red" written on it. Or keep arguing, calmly and reasonably, that the sky is yellow, not blue. Or insist, in the most serious manner you can muster, that pigs can indeed fly.

 

[jewboy]

Forcing you to replay a section of the game that you do not want to replay is simply poor game design. It isn't fun. All it achieves is giving children something to boast about to their friends. "I got past the dragon without dying once!". I'd like to think that most of us grow out of that sort of thing before the age of 10. If I want to relpay something that I wasn't satisfied with I can simply load a previous save. The difference is I am in control of my own gaming experience. Otherwise the only way I can be in control of the gaming experience is to exit the game and uninstall it. Which is really the only rational course to take with a so called "game" that merely wants to frustrate you. If I want to be frustrated I don't need to play a game for that. There is plenty of frustration in real life.

 

[Jasede]

The mistake is that you think you wouldn't want to replay that section when in actuality, playing the game, it becomes extremely enjoyable. The enemies act differently, you can try out a multitude of fighting styles and - with cautious play - you will rarely/never have to replay parts anyway, though soon you will be so excited to see what new weird and neat areas await that you throw all caution in the wind and die- and then you will not feel as if you are being punished. You will, instead, feel foolish and emerge a better player.

I've already explained this a billion times. Would it make sense to let you save everywhere in ADOM, Nethack, Crawl or Super Mario Bros? Does it make sense to let you save everywhere in a Pinball machine or in Air Hockey? Does it make sense to let you save at any point in a Kart Racing game?

But you are right about one thing: if you don't like getting frustrated, this - and many other good games - is not for you. And that's fine, too.

But then I ask, don't you get frustrated even in games where you can save everywhere? I get frustrated when I am stuck on a puzzle in an adventure game. In fact, being stuck on a puzzle is part of the fun. I similarly get frustrated when it turns out my character build was shit in Wizardry 8 and I have to remake the character. And again, it hardly spoils the experience for me.

But your mileage may differ. I'm just getting tired of defending this game constantly. It doesn't need my defense, it stands tall on its own.

 

[jewboy]

So it's not turned based. Is it at least RTwP? Some of you seem to be saying that you can save anywhere. If that's the case then the devs will have one less thing to do for the PC port. It is well known that PC gamers don't have the "patience" for checkpoint saves. It does sound like an interesting game. Which is why I am hoping that the developers will be able to overcome their console habits and release a game that PC gamers will actually enjoy.

 

[Jasede]

Well, thank you for that. I am really dense sometimes.

 

[jewboy]

I haven't played any of those games, Jasede. If you're talking consoles you'll have to go a lot further back in time. I've played some Atari 2600 games and some genuine arcade games, but I don't remember them all that well. I think I could manage to play Space Invaders for maybe 15 minutes before I would just get bored of it. And, no, it didn't have any saves. I never like pinball machines either. Or Pong or Break-Out or Missile Command or Asteroids or Frogger or Donkey Kong or Pac Man. Perhaps such games aren't really designed to be played for more than 15 minutes. The only progress is in terms of levels which aren't all that different from the ones that came before. Oh, and your 'score' gets higher. What a pathetic game mechanic that was. An actual score.