Arkane PREY - Arkane's immersive coffee cup transformation sim - now with Mooncrash roguelike mode DLC

[ciox]

And there are quests where you cannot rely on objective markers even if they are enabled, like finding the voice samples. Like with many things, Prey sits somewhere in the middle when it comes to the incline-decline axis.

 

[LarryTyphoid]

Turning off the quest markers in Prey just seems like pointless busywork to me.

Yeah but I played the game 50 times so now I can turn them off and pretend like the game is like System Shock and not popamole

 

[SharkClub]

Prey still has some of the best level design I've experienced in an immersive sim despite the quest markers. There is always handful of different ways to get to any given area on the map and it's very fun to climb all over the place, the amount of verticality and freedom of movement is pretty much unmatched within the genre, even the Dishonored games with the blink ability feels more strictly confined (eventually you find yourself sliding off of roofs or fighting being pushed back in bounds). For me the biggest issue with Prey is not the quest markers it's that it could have used a couple more weapons to add variety and soak up weapon mods, neuromods should have been a bit more expensive to craft (or Typhons dropped less Exotic material) and the enemy designs are just overall kind of weak (there's like 5 actual enemy types and then a few different flavors of each).

System Shock 2 does not have any of these issues, there is an abundance of weapons, a lot of unique enemies and you won't be able to upgrade everything you want in one run. Though that last one is done rather sloppily by tying cybernetic module requirements to the difficulty, which is changeable on the fly, it also makes Psi builds lame because the inflated module prices on Impossible means that it's a pain to get even a handful of abilities and any respectable stats before the very end, it's much more manageable with a more cookie cutter weapons build. I never liked how module requirements changed with a modifiable difficulty mode in SS2. There are much more elegant ways they could have gone about this. What SS2 does not have is the extreme freedom of movement and vertical level design, which is where Prey obviously excels and carves out it's own niche in the genre.

 

[Zboj Lamignat]

the enemy designs are just overall kind of weak (there's like 5 actual enemy types and then a few different flavors of each).

That's being super nice. The enemy cast is incredibly lame, especially so for a game that really wants to be SS3.

 

[Tacgnol]

the enemy designs are just overall kind of weak (there's like 5 actual enemy types and then a few different flavors of each).

That's being super nice. The enemy cast is incredibly lame, especially so for a game that really wants to be SS3.

Indeed, the enemy design is by far the weakest part of Prey. It's a real shame considering the superb enemy design of the games it is inspired by.

Typhons were the perfect opportunity with all their psychic abilities, we could have had way more humanoid enemies in various states of control or mutation rather than the phantoms.

 

[Zboj Lamignat]

Don't forget the robots. SS2 has protocol droids, the bulky and intimidating security/military bots, cyborg assassins and, last but definitely not least, midwives.

Prey has a toaster that slowly floats towards you making beep-boop sounds.

 

[Tacgnol]

Don't forget the robots. SS2 has protocol droids, the bulky and intimidating security/military bots, cyborg assassins and, last but definitely not least, midwives.

Prey has a toaster that slowly floats towards you making beep-boop sounds.

Sound design in SS2 was king, it made the enemies 10x more intimidating than they would have been on visuals alone.

Robots reporting to Xerxes what they were going to do to you, Hybrids and Midwives with their creepy utterances. Even the enraged shrieks of the monkeys.

Prey did try to copy that with the Phantoms and their disjointed dialogue, but it somehow falls flat.

 

[ciox]

Bringing some of the Mooncrash additions to arsenal/beastiary into the main campaign could have made a difference, simply because you started with something quite bare, unfortunately it was already ordained that nothing else would be done with Prey besides use it as a testbed for Deathpoop ideas.

 

[ciox]

Don't forget the robots. SS2 has protocol droids, the bulky and intimidating security/military bots, cyborg assassins and, last but definitely not least, midwives.

Prey has a toaster that slowly floats towards you making beep-boop sounds.

Sound design in SS2 was king, it made the enemies 10x more intimidating than they would have been on visuals alone.

Robots reporting to Xerxes what they were going to do to you, Hybrids and Midwives with their creepy utterances. Even the enraged shrieks of the monkeys.

Prey did try to copy that with the Phantoms and their disjointed dialogue, but it somehow falls flat.

System Shock Remake also fails at this, there's some attempts here and there to make enemies seem alive, but it's not even close to the Thief and SS2 style where almost everything is outfitted with a full sound set that has numerous reactive sound samples for every situation. Whatever was going on with the old sound design seems quite hard to replicate nowadays.

 

[kangaxx]

Don't forget the robots. SS2 has protocol droids, the bulky and intimidating security/military bots, cyborg assassins and, last but definitely not least, midwives.

Prey has a toaster that slowly floats towards you making beep-boop sounds.

I think the toasters are the worst part about the game actually. Especially when they spawn relentlessly around endgame time. At least you can block the spawn points with boxes and put an end to it.

 

[Average Manatee]

Certainly. Ending the game with an onslaught of enemies that have the least personality/scare factor and the least interesting tactics to defeat (they just hover around and ignore terrain so all you can really do is spam bullets at them) was an awful idea.

 

[Latelistener]

By the way, I recently posted my mod on Nexus: https://www.nexusmods.com/prey2017/mods/109

Initially it removed both sounds and animations from containers. I had some help and now it just removes sounds.

I thought maybe they brought this bug with Mooncrash, but no, I found footages on youtube from a console version of the game back from 2017 and it was already there.

How this got past QA / QC, went into the release version of the game and haven't been fixed with post-release patches is a mystery to me.

 

[Tacgnol]

By the way, I recently posted my mod on Nexus: https://www.nexusmods.com/prey2017/mods/109

Initially it removed both sounds and animations from containers. I had some help and now it just removes sounds.

I thought maybe they brought this bug with Mooncrash, but no, I found footages on youtube from a console version of the game back from 2017 and it was already there.

How this got past QA / QC, went into the release version of the game and haven't been fixed with post-release patches is a mystery to me.

Neat mod. Is it compatible with RoSoDude's core balance mod?

 

[Latelistener]

By the way, I recently posted my mod on Nexus: https://www.nexusmods.com/prey2017/mods/109

Initially it removed both sounds and animations from containers. I had some help and now it just removes sounds.

I thought maybe they brought this bug with Mooncrash, but no, I found footages on youtube from a console version of the game back from 2017 and it was already there.

How this got past QA / QC, went into the release version of the game and haven't been fixed with post-release patches is a mystery to me.

Neat mod. Is it compatible with RoSoDude's core balance mod?

Should be. The mod modifies animation events located in the "Objects" folder. RoSoDude mod uses "Ark" and "Libs" folders.

 

[RoSoDude]

Certainly. Ending the game with an onslaught of enemies that have the least personality/scare factor and the least interesting tactics to defeat (they just hover around and ignore terrain so all you can really do is spam bullets at them) was an awful idea.

The most interesting tactic to "defeat" the laser toasters is to pile boxes in front of the operator dispensers so they can't spawn any more. But yeah, actually fighting them is a bore.

Prey's cast of robotic enemies is pathetic, honestly I wouldn't complain so much about the enemy roster (notwithstanding that the oil slick blobs just aren't scary in the slightest) if there were a bunch of interesting droids to fight. Just imagine any number of service robots that have been corrupted and now use whatever tools at their disposal to beat you down.

 

[Spukrian]

My personal favourite way of dealing with the military operators is to use Remote Manipulation + Hacking and let them fight eachother.

 

[SharkClub]

Prey's cast of robotic enemies is pathetic, honestly I wouldn't complain so much about the enemy roster (notwithstanding that the oil slick blobs just aren't scary in the slightest) if there were a bunch of interesting droids to fight. Just imagine any number of service robots that have been corrupted and now use whatever tools at their disposal to beat you down.

Yeah, instead of Operators in Medical/Engineering/Science/Military reskins that all turn into the same floating toaster that tries to torch/laser you when they get corrupted, having specific robotic assistants designed for each of these fields with their own unique look and attacks would have gone a long way to adding the missing enemy variety that the game sorely lacks. It just shows that the Typhon and their black goo visual design isn't even the main problem. I can tell the difference between a Phantom and a Telepath but I don't give a shit if the Fire Phantom is technically different from the Electric Phantom or the Typhon Cum Phantom. It's what I meant when I said there's like 5 enemy types with some different flavors assigned to them (though that may be a bit reductionist, there's probably more like 8).

 

[Average Manatee]

The only valid response to the Prey enemy list is



Aside from the lack of enemy variety there's also a big lack of variety in their composition in levels. Almost all fights are 1v1 or 1v2 of the same things. I don't recall being surprised by a mimic during a fight or while trying to orient myself to fight a phantom despite that being the most interesting and memorable way to use them I can think of. Same goes for a lot of other enemies which seem to just exist in "their" areas. Not at all like SS2 where if you trip an alarm you'll have a monk, a hybrid and a protocol droid come after you.

 

[Ash]

Glad we're getting down to the nitty gritty of why Prey is ultimately a failure, above all the other issues small and large (and there is many), is the pathetic weapon & enemy design.
Still not a terrible game, and the most admirable effort from Arkane since Arx Fatalis, but ultimately I consider Arx the only successful/valuable game they ever made from a design standpoint.

Dark Messiah feels rushed and inconsistent. It's simple so what's there NEEDS to be close to perfection, but that is often not the case sadly.
Dishonored is dumb popamole for casuals.
Prey is a nice effort but somehow things went very wrong. What were they thinking indeed. Limp dick leadership probably. Probably too busy getting distracted & cucked by the women on the team. 90s dev teams were all male and maybe 1 cool tomboy chick here and there. Introduce a gaggle of hens and a man's attention can easily lead elsewhere other than the game. See Chris Avellone's career lol. (note: I'm talking shit/fun speculation. Could be any number of reasons).
Deathpoop & Redfall well I won't even give them a chance.

 

[agris]

going to try this vanilla, no DLC. Is nightmare difficulty good, or does it create bullet sponges?

Playing with traumas and oxygen as well.

 

[Ryzer]

going to try this vanilla, no DLC. Is nightmare difficulty good, or does it create bullet sponges?

Playing with traumas and oxygen as well.

Bullet sponges yes, at least until you have the shotgun.

Then it's a cakewalk since the game floods the player with items.

 

[Average Manatee]

Nightmare is just damage received/inflicted modifiers but they are pretty light compared to most games. If you showed me a player playing Hard and Nightmare I'd probably not be able to tell the difference.

 

[RoSoDude]

Prey's difficulty settings leave a LOT to be desired. Here's everything that changes on Story/Easy/Normal/Hard/Nightmare difficulty:

• Damage taken from most sources: 0.1/0.5/1.0/1.4/1.6x
• Damage taken from crush and laser sources: 0.4/0.7/1.0/1.2/1.4x
• Suit damage received: 0.25/0.25/1.0/1.0/1.0x
• Health/psi from consumable items: 2.0/1.2/1.0/0.8/0.8x
• Damage dealt by the player: 1.25/1.1/1.0/1.0/0.8x

What's the problem? It's all just modifiers to combat. This is not at all well-suited to a game like Prey, whose combat is all about stunlocking enemies and taking them out with your acquired tools, skills, and resources. Playing Prey as a straight shooter is not particularly effective or fun, as enemy attacks aren't telegraphed well and can in some instances be impossible to dodge. Fights are supposed to be a scrappy affair where you survive by your wits rather than running and gunning like Doom. If you're playing the game "correctly", you're declawing enemies and eliminating them before they can respond. Nightmare difficulty just makes this dynamic more binary; if you fail to properly stunlock your opponent, there's a good chance you'll get killed by them in 1-2 hits. What this ultimately encourages is just quicksaving before any encounter, because the prospect of dying to a cheap move by the enemy and having to reloot the environment for junk to recycle is highly tedious. This also has the surely unintended side effect of making you use fewer resources on Nightmare, because you will exit most fights without a single point of damage taken thanks to savescumming and will never need to heal. I had a much bigger stack of medkits on my Nightmare run than my subsequent Normal run because the former had so little room between success and failure. The only real difference in raw challenge between a savescummed Nightmare run and an autosave-only Normal run is dealing 20% less damage (not really that significant in the grand scheme), and you lose all the tension of getting ambushed, responding in real time, and recovering from your mistakes which actually made my Normal run much more hardcore and interesting.

 

[Child of Malkav]

• Damage taken from most sources: 0.1/0.5/1.0/1.4/1.6x
• Damage taken from crush and laser sources: 0.4/0.7/1.0/1.2/1.4x
• Suit damage received: 0.25/0.25/1.0/1.0/1.0x
• Health/psi from consumable items: 2.0/1.2/1.0/0.8/0.8x
• Damage dealt by the player: 1.25/1.1/1.0/1.0/0.8x

That's why I don't play games on anything higher than normal/medium. Adding zeros to numbers does not make a game more interesting, fun or stimulating in a new way or by adding a twist to the gameplay. No, just the worst kind of challenging: bullet sponge enemies whereas the player dies even faster than before.
I did like however the one hit kill feature for both enemies and player in the Ghostrunner game. By adding attachments you can change tactics and alter your playstyle.
Also the difficulty in Metro games where the higher you go in difficulty setting the higher the damage you and your enemies do.

 

[Spacer's Nugget]

I've never seen this before: