Prisonscape Alpha - thread

[PekkaK]

I can't, but Black Guerrilla wasn't active where I did my time. We did have members of the Nation is Islam and they were all black, although white people could join.

I also knew a white guy who was a Latin King.

But doing hustles for people who are in other gangs is actually common place. Even rival gangs can find common ground if it's mutual beneficial.

BTW, let me know about that thing we talked about

Cool, this makes the game/quest design so much easier for me! I really wanted to include Nation of Islam in the game, but it would've increased the scope again, and I just don't want to do it at this point of the development.

Edit: I sent you a message about "that thing".

 

[GarlandExCon]

For fun here's a list of gangs I encountered during my time in prison and jail:

Bloods
Aryan Brotherhood
Nation of Islam
Latin Kings
MS-13
Dixie Mafia
Italian Mafia
La Raza
Sinaloa Cartel
Sureños
Mexican Mafia
Texas Syndicate
Irish Mob
Pegans
Hell's Angels

There were also groups that weren't rally "gangs" that stuck together like the Asatru, who were mostly Aryan Nation anyway, and Native Americans. The Hebrew-Israelite's were also very active

 

[PekkaK]

Once again I approach the wise council for advice:

I have been working on the skills in Prisonscape, and came up with a following system:

• Player gets their first skills during character creation, based on their background
• Skills range from levels 0 (skill unknown) to 4 (expert)
• Skills affect various C&C and other actions made during the game
  
• There are not dice throws, only check that is made is to see if the player has sufficient skill level for the action
• For example: Player wants to break into the guard's breakroom in order to hide dope to a guard's lunchbox. In order to get inside, they have to have either Lockpicking at level 2 OR Electronics at level 1.
• Sometimes these skills are combined together with a main stat, for example some action might require Manipulation level 3 AND Intelligence 90

Does this system seem too simplified? Can you think of any other games with similar skill system? My thinking was that the system would have higher emphasize on "character build" rather than chance, and this would also encourage for playing the game again with different choices (as getting all skills to max level during one game is extremely time consuming and grind-y).

 

[Haba]

Some random thoughts.

Dice throws for (traditional) skill checks are pointless, as players will just re-roll. No problem.

If the skill checks are gating the content, remember that the player does not know what the gates are beforehand. Or how the skills he is picking (from the background) will be utilized.

So I personally feel that it is the best if you can get a feel early on in the game. "If I have this kind of character, I can go here and do those things. On the other hand, this skill lets me do this".

V.s. creating your character blind and realizing you can't really do the things you wanted. Relatively few people play the game through multiple times.

Also a question to answer: how many skill points do you get during the game? Will your background choice determine whether you can pass the final skill checks for each respective skill?

 

[V_K]

Does this system seem too simplified? Can you think of any other games with similar skill system? My thinking was that the system would have higher emphasize on "character build" rather than chance, and this would also encourage for playing the game again with different choices (as getting all skills to max level during one game is extremely time consuming and grind-y).

Age of Decadence did a very similar system. Some people loved it, some people hated it. With binary checks, it all depends on how drastic consequences are. If it's a "come back again after you've trained more" situation, or if the consequences of failure are relatively modest (lose some money/items/faction rep, have to fight a battle etc.) then it's fine enough. If, however, each check is final and permanently locks you out of some content or can even kill you outright - then maybe introduce some resource or consumable that you could use in the moment to mitigate the lack of skill to an extent.

 

[PekkaK]

Some random thoughts.

Dice throws for (traditional) skill checks are pointless, as players will just re-roll. No problem.

If the skill checks are gating the content, remember that the player does not know what the gates are beforehand. Or how the skills he is picking (from the background) will be utilized.

So I personally feel that it is the best if you can get a feel early on in the game. "If I have this kind of character, I can go here and do those things. On the other hand, this skill lets me do this".

In the first area of the game (County Jail), the player will get a feel about how the skills work. For example, it is clearly stated in the dialogue when outcome is determined by the player's skill level. Hopefully this provides the player with sufficient information on how the system works.

V.s. creating your character blind and realizing you can't really do the things you wanted. Relatively few people play the game through multiple times.

This is a good point that needs to be taken into consideration. Also, I feel like ALL skills should be as equally important as possible, so that the player doesn't end up in a "dead end" by selecting useless skills.

Also a question to answer: how many skill points do you get during the game? Will your background choice determine whether you can pass the final skill checks for each respective skill?

The game currently has 10 skills, of which 9 can be leveled up to 3, and one has only one level. NPC's can teach the player some skills, which only puts them to level 0. Then after the next level up the player can increase the skill to level 1.

With this system, leveling all skills to maximum requires 28 skill points, and the maximum level in the game is 20. If player gets 2 skills in the character creation, the maximum total number of skill points is 21 (out of 28).

Age of Decadence did a very similar system. Some people loved it, some people hated it. With binary checks, it all depends on how drastic consequences are. If it's a "come back again after you've trained more" situation, or if the consequences of failure are relatively modest (lose some money/items/faction rep, have to fight a battle etc.) then it's fine enough. If, however, each check is final and permanently locks you out of some content or can even kill you outright - then maybe introduce some resource or consumable that you could use in the moment to mitigate the lack of skill to an extent.

The goal is to create as much as possible these "come back again after you've trained more" scenarios. Player can also contemplate on most dialogue-based decisions and do the decision after they have leveled up to check if there are "better" options available.

 

[GarlandExCon]

Once again I approach the wise council for advice:

I have been working on the skills in Prisonscape, and came up with a following system:

• Player gets their first skills during character creation, based on their background
• Skills range from levels 0 (skill unknown) to 4 (expert)
• Skills affect various C&C and other actions made during the game
  
• There are not dice throws, only check that is made is to see if the player has sufficient skill level for the action
• For example: Player wants to break into the guard's breakroom in order to hide dope to a guard's lunchbox. In order to get inside, they have to have either Lockpicking at level 2 OR Electronics at level 1.
• Sometimes these skills are combined together with a main stat, for example some action might require Manipulation level 3 AND Intelligence 90

Does this system seem too simplified? Can you think of any other games with similar skill system? My thinking was that the system would have higher emphasize on "character build" rather than chance, and this would also encourage for playing the game again with different choices (as getting all skills to max level during one game is extremely time consuming and grind-y).

I love the concept.

I assume the skill checks would be blind? In other words, the PC would have no idea what the skill check is for each task they're attempting? I think that adds a level of needed suspense and uncertainty if a player isn't sure in advance they have the skills to complete certain tasks

 

[Abu Antar]

Just try to add different solutions to quests and your proposed system would be good.

 

[PekkaK]

Thanks for the feedback, it's much appreciated!

I assume the skill checks would be blind? In other words, the PC would have no idea what the skill check is for each task they're attempting? I think that adds a level of needed suspense and uncertainty if a player isn't sure in advance they have the skills to complete certain tasks

The check is blind, yes, but there are sometimes indicators about the lack of specific skill and/or skill level. For example using Stealth, it could be something like: "There are way too many guards and inmates watching, there's no way I can sneak in there with my clumsy feet."

Just try to add different solutions to quests and your proposed system would be good.

This is the ultimate goal and also a big challenge. Let's see how it goes!

 

[Skdursh]

Oh shit, I thought this game was complete vaporware, but it's good to see that it's actually still being worked on.

 

[PekkaK]

It seems that in order to balance the factions in PS, we would need 4 or 5 new neutral quests. Any suggestions of everyday "hustles" that could exist inside prison? Pinging GarlandExCon !

 

[GarlandExCon]

It seems that in order to balance the factions in PS, we would need 4 or 5 new neutral quests. Any suggestions of everyday "hustles" that could exist inside prison? Pinging GarlandExCon !

Here's a list of everyday hustles:

-Cleaning shoes
-Fixing or modifying radios and other electronics (for example, the "Radio Man" could turn up the max volume on your radio, install an extra headphone jack or even install a battery pack that allowed it to last longer)
-Washing clothes
-Cleaning another inmate's cell
-Making hooch
-Doing tattoos
-Making and selling food (wraps, cheesecake, pizza crusts... there were even people that would steal buckets, cut them down and use stolen oil from the kitchen and a stinger to deep fry foods in their cells)
-Greeting card maker
-Portrait drawing (give an inmate who could draw really well a picture and he would draw it, i.e. a picture of your girlfriend or family. Made a good gift to send home).
-The "Milk Man" (went to the chow hall every morning for breakfast, smuggled out milk in plastic bottles and kept it on ice until other inmates who had him on contract wanted it).
-Kitchen works would steal food from the kitchen and resell it
-Haircuts

That's just off the top of my head

 

[PekkaK]

Combat v. 3.1. finished, now starts the testing. The game maps are pretty much finished (except for one that requires some resources still) and the whole thing can be played through.

Holy shit, it's actually coming together. A day I wasn't expecting to see.

 

[GarlandExCon]

Yay for Coronavirus!

 

[PekkaK]

I made a meme about my current struggle:

 

[GarlandExCon]

Alright, I'm going to get to work on a couple of these this week even if it kills me

 

[GarlandExCon]

Hey question, when doing these quests, does the PC have choices of which course they can take?

 

[PekkaK]

Hey question, when doing these quests, does the PC have choices of which course they can take?

Of course, the goal is to have a lot of choices & consequences in the game. Currently most of the quests are still bare bones, but I add new layers to them whenever I think of something new. There are several factors that affect outcomes with quests and dialogues, for example:

• Basic stats (Intelligence more, Strength and Agility less)
• Skills and their level (Manipulation, Intimidation, Haggling, Medical with dialogue; Stealth, Lockpicking, Medical, Crafting, Electronics and Pickpocketing with other activities)
• Dialogue options
• Sometimes luck

As you can see, the game has much less variables than many RPGs - this is a design choice as we don't want the thing to bloat too much at this point. We'll leave the more complex mechanics for the sequels. ;-)

 

[PekkaK]

Prisonscape Alpha 11 released:

http://www.prisonscape.com/blog/?p=801

Features

Implement Combat V3.1
Implement player party
Implement game over

Tasks

Allow player to toggle level up
Add more crafting recipes
Add more weapons and items
Test Miranda quest pipeline
Update API documentation
Update 3rd party license

Bugs

Fix dialogue crash on several NPCs
Fix editor crash when shift-click or double click is used
Fix editor crash when a container is selected
Fix reputation bars in UI
Fix automatic dialogues
Fix single-option dialogue branches
Fix skill bar overflow when leveling up
Fix skill progress UI overflow after leveling up
Fix a bug where quest journal can’t be closed
Fix stuttering when playing sound effects
Fix DPI scaling issues

 

[Haba]

I'm clicking on every link on the page but nothing is downloading!

 

[PekkaK]

I'm clicking on every link on the page but nothing is downloading!

*Released to a very exclusive group of two people.

 

[PekkaK]

Any comments on this character screen? I added the party to the bottom part. There are currently 10 skills in the game, so unfortunately I couldn't fit them in the middle part. The right section is used for description of skills, stats and party members.

I was thinking that after NPC joins the party, they would disappear from the map and the interaction would happen through this screen. They could still give you "hustles" (quests) and you could initiate normal dialogue with them, you'd just do it from this screen. This could maybe create this illusion of hanging around together, but still being individuals with their own motivations and opinions on things.

 

[V_K]

HP bloat seems a bit too high, unless they start with a 1000 HP already.
I think party members take way too much screen space - partly because of the super long HP figures. That panel could easily be compressed in half if not more, leaving more space for the skill list. It just doesn't make a lot of sense to have scrolling for two skills only.

 

[PekkaK]

HP bloat seems a bit too high, unless they start with a 1000 HP already.
I think party members take way too much screen space - partly because of the super long HP figures. That panel could easily be compressed in half if not more, leaving more space for the skill list. It just doesn't make a lot of sense to have scrolling for two skills only.

Updated. I think there might be too much space for the skills in this one, though. The bloated HP is there so we can see what is the maximum space we need. We haven't fully decided yet if the maximum HP goes to JRPG numbers, though.

 

[V_K]

Yeah, that seems like an overkill for the skills, compared to other parts of the UI.
Do you really need these four heads in the character UI anyway? Can't you have them discretely show in some corner on the main exploration window and talk to them there?