Vapourware Realms Beyond: Ashes of the Fallen - Chaos Chronicles reborn and dead again

[Darth Canoli]

I'm sure it is fixed now, and I intend to come back to it, but that's not the point.

When it was Kickstarted, Pierre said it was fully tested and complete, and I backed it based on that. And it barely even ran on my computer, crashed constantly, was incredibly slow. Not to mention the problems with the design itself. It was clearly unfinished and untested.

Yeah I'm sure it's fixed and great now, a year later, but I don't appreciate being lied to to get at my money.

Well, the module was complete, it's not like he has a team to playtest the game on different configs.

You're just a pussy who likes to whine no matter what, aren't you?

Pierre is a one man dev team who keeps on delivering.
Whether you can handle incline or not is up to you.

 

[curds]

Well, the module was complete, it's not like he has a team to playtest the game on different configs.

You're just a pussy who likes to whine no matter what, aren't you?

Pierre is a one man dev team who keeps on delivering.
Whether you can handle incline or not is up to you.

Jesus man, didn't mean to upset you. I'll be sure not to say anything against the guy who made a game you like in future, okay?

 

[The Wall]

curds
Did you bro get your Realms Beyond Beta key?

 

[curds]

curds
Did you bro get your Realms Beyond Beta key?

posting on my laptop which doesn't have discord installed on it. I'll get out of bed and check and update you in a minute.

edit: No I didn't get it.

 

[Darth Canoli]

Jesus man, didn't mean to upset you. I'll be sure not to say anything against the guy who made a game you like in future, okay?

I'm not upset, did you just understand what i wrote or are just categorizing messages you (don't) read on friendly ones and unfriendly ones?

It's funny how an indie dev delivering quality games gets more shit than companies delivering half finished products they take a year or two to half fix but not completely.
Example, kingmaker and the savegame issue, never fixed, never will be.
Most retards don't care.

But if an indie with 5% of their resources takes half a year to deliver something 10 times better, he still gets some shit about it 18 month later.

Dude, seriously.

 

[mediocrepoet]

Jesus man, didn't mean to upset you. I'll be sure not to say anything against the guy who made a game you like in future, okay?

I'm not upset, did you just understand what i wrote or are just categorizing messages you (don't) read on friendly ones and unfriendly ones?

It's funny how an indie dev delivering quality games gets more shit than companies delivering half finished products they take a year or two to half fix but not completely.
Example, kingmaker and the savegame issue, never fixed, never will be.
Most retards don't care.

But if an indie with 5% of their resources takes half a year to deliver something 10 times better, he still gets some shit about it 18 month later.

Dude, seriously.

As Darth Canoli mentioned, we basically discussed this around the original Kickstarter release date when the module was terribly buggy for most users. As I recall, Pierre has/had two computers to test it on. Most people gave him the benefit of the doubt and assumed that he was able to run the thing on his computers and other issues came up once it got into the wild since he has no QA people, staff, or anything other than some roots he keeps as friends. Even the insane imbalances seemed to have been at least partially a facet of him being the designer and tester and being intimately familiar with what will happen in the encounters and what tools there are to counter those things, as after playing, people were able figure this out and achieve some measure of non-RNG success against the module.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not that elite and put the game down to revisit later (maybe nowish) because the bugs generally broke my mind. Either way, I'd rather have an ambitious project that comes out buggy and is eventually patched into something awesome, if flawed, rather than another thousand bland corporate projects that run together like pablum.

 

[curds]

did you just understand what i wrote or are just categorizing messages you (don't) read on friendly ones and unfriendly ones?

Bro, this is literally what you are doing. You are completely missing my point.

I know ambitious indie games are bound to have some bugs due to less resources. I know AAA games are also released in shamefully unfinished states. I respect Pierre, I think the guy's a genius and KotC 1 was one of the best games of its decade, certainly the best traditional CRPG.

My point is very simple:

• Pierre said the game was complete and tested, so I gave him money.
• The game I got from him barely even ran. The module itself may have been complete, but was clearly untested (except perhaps by Pierre himself, though I doubt even that) and horribly unbalanced.

 

[NJClaw]

It's funny how an indie dev delivering quality games gets more shit than companies delivering half finished products they take a year or two to half fix but not completely.

While I mostly sympathize with your opinion, I think you're missing curds' point.

A truly 100% indie developer like him obviously deserves some slack, especially considering the size and scope of KotC 2 combat system. However, when a truly 100% indie developer like him asks for money, I think it's fair for the customer to assume a higher level of honesty than that of your generic AAA company. In the case of KotC 2, this higher level of honesty wasn't there. Pierre promised an almost finished game, but what we got was a barely functioning one. As you probably remember, at release, you had to play it expecting a game-breaking bug every couple of fights. To be fair, Pierre did work on it 24/7 and fixed most stuff fairly quickly, so it's not like I lost my respect for him. He should just have said from the beginning that the game was not going to work for a week or two.

That said, KotC 2 is a 10/10 so who cares.

 

[Tacgnol]

• Pierre said the game was complete and tested, so I gave him money.

I think the issue was that Pierre thought it was complete and tested. The guy is so autistic and naïve that he actually thought a couple of playthroughs was enough testing. Thank fuck he got this feedback before he tried to launch it on Steam is all I can say. It would have been disastrous.

I was very negative about KOTC 2 at release, but he has put a lot of work into improving it. The (full) playthrough I did on the release version was a monotonous chore. When I did a playthrough back in July it was actually very fun to play and not the savescum simulator it was at release.

Also Dorateen's Hearkenwold module is a joy to play, though I suggest anyone that hated Pierre's module at release give it another go.

 

[curds]

I think the issue was that Pierre thought it was complete and tested. The guy is so autistic and naïve that he actually thought a couple of playthroughs was enough testing. Thank fuck he got this feedback before he tried to launch it on Steam is all I can say. It would have been disastrous.

I was very negative about KOTC 2 at release, but he has put a lot of work into improving it. The (full) playthrough I did on the release version was a monotonous chore. When I did a playthrough back in July it was actually very fun to play and not the savescum simulator it was at release.

Yes. I knew it would be improved and I have been very excited to play it after a year or so of putting it on the backburner and waiting for it to be fixed.

Honestly, all Pierre had to do was say on the Kickstarter that backers would get a beta build for testing purposes - rather than a full game - and I would have zero complaints in that case.

Anyway, I didn't mean to turn this thread into a discussion about another game, so I'm gonna leave it at that.

 

[mediocrepoet]

Anyway, I didn't mean to turn this thread into a discussion about another game, so I'm gonna leave it at that.

Well, at least Pierre delivered a game. This thread is just about how some assholes repeatedly scammed gullible people (like myself) with stories of "teh evul publisherz!"

 

[Efe]

I hate seeing people defend their arguments with "But X did it too" or "Y did it worse".
Do i expect too much of people?

 

[mediocrepoet]

I hate seeing people defend their arguments with "But X did it too" or "Y did it worse".
Do i expect too much of people?

Was that directed at me? If it was, my point was simply that this thread isn't even really about a game. There's no game. Just BS.

 

[almondblight]

I hate seeing people defend their arguments with "But X did it too" or "Y did it worse".
Do i expect too much of people?

How much experience do you have with Kickstarters?

 

[Pink Eye]

To be fair, Pierre did work on it 24/7 and fixed most stuff fairly quickly

I don't think anyone gives Pierre enough credit for this. First version took me literal hundreds of hours to beat, not because it was bullbusting hard, but because of the crashes, bugs, and annoyances I had to deal with. Underwater shark encounter in first chapter would crash. Every. Single. Time. It took me so many attempts to figure out how to get through it without crashing. I did so many things like: not using water breathing potion, sending only one person through, restarting, entering the underwater place then immediately saving, et cetera. Eventually I got through it after figuring out what caused the crashing. Then there were other crashes in later chapters like leaving sewers than facing Pizarra. It took me so many hours to figure out how to get through that one without crashing either. That's the amount of hardwork I put myself through just to experience this awesome game. Any other game. I would have thrown my hands up in the air and moved on.

Every time I sent Pierre emails about those issues. He was polite and always eager to fix them. I think the only developer, that I've had first hand experience with, which comes close to this kind of dedication is Iron Tower Studios. Whenever I send those bug reports about Colony Ship or email them about it. They acknowledge them and address the problem in next patch or whenever they have the time to do so.

That says a lot about dedicated game makers who care about their fans, their projects, feedback. Versus other clowns who'd rather release a shit game - in some cases they won't even give you the privilege of a released product; not listen to feedback, not care about the fans, and would rather you eat dirt.

 

[luj1]

KotC/RB/ColonyShip > Pillars/Divinity/Pathfinder

 

[Darth Canoli]

KotC/RB/ColonyShip >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Pillars/Divinity/Pathfinder

It's missing a trillion of >

 

[Nortar]

KotC/RB/ColonyShip > Pillars/Divinity/Pathfinder

If you mean TB > RTwP, I agree.

 

[mondblut]

KotC/RB/ColonyShip > Pillars/Divinity/Pathfinder

If you mean TB > RTwP, I agree.

He probably means vaporware is always better than a finished product. The stuff dreams are made of.

 

[Darth Canoli]

He probably means vaporware is always better than a finished product. The stuff dreams are made of.

Knights of the Chalice was released a decade ago though and we know for a fact Colony Ship will be released so...

 

[Lord_Potato]

Too bad Realms Beyond is never getting released, unlike the titles you consider inferior to it.

 

[Tacgnol]

Too bad Realms Beyond is never getting released, unlike the titles you consider inferior to it.

Somehow I feel this cursed game/scam(depending on your perspective) is not done with us yet.

It's hard to predict the next twist the story of this "game" will take. Maybe Hervé Caen will become involved.

 

[mondblut]

He probably means vaporware is always better than a finished product. The stuff dreams are made of.

Knights of the Chalice was released a decade ago though and we know for a fact Colony Ship will be released so...

He must have implied KOTC2, otherwise does not compute.

Once it and Colony Ship get released, we can safely write them off as disappointments and keep pining for RB as an RPG to rule over all RPGs.

 

[luj1]

KotC/RB/ColonyShip > Pillars/Divinity/Pathfinder

If you mean TB > RTwP, I agree.

He probably means vaporware is always better than a finished product.

The tragedy is that its true

RB beta actually shits on all 3

 

[ArchAngel]

It has been playable for about a year now and mostly bug-free.

I'm sure it is fixed now, and I intend to come back to it, but that's not the point.

When it was Kickstarted, Pierre said it was fully tested and complete, and I backed it based on that. And it barely even ran on my computer, crashed constantly, was incredibly slow. Not to mention the problems with the design itself. It was clearly unfinished and untested.

Yeah I'm sure it's fixed and great now, a year later, but I don't appreciate being lied to to get at my money.

How are you still part of society and with access to internet if this bothers you this much? Like everyone lies constantly about everything to get everyone elses money LOL. Like look at Pfizer, so many retards gave them money because they promised their gene therapy (that they lied and called a vaccine) would help them. LOL at all those retards 1 year later now giving them more money for their 3rd and 4th shot after getting same promise again..