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fantadomat

Arcane
Edgy Vatnik Wumao
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The best thing is having party companions with their own story and quests while still having an option for party creation.
 
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Self-Ejected

underground nymph

I care not!
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1,252
Strap Yourselves In
Personally, I really don't like full party creation. Pre-generated companions with dialogues and banters are much more interesting to me. Of course you can overdo it. Everyone always mentions only BG2, where companions are (maybe) too talkative. But there are games like Drakensang, where our companions were written more sparingly (which some of You may like more). Besides, it's really hard to identify with a group of six, which kills the aspect of playing a role for me (because which role do you play?).

Apart from the story aspect, pre-generated companies are more interesting from a tactical perspective; instead of leading a power-gaming team of killing machines (which is damn boring), we are leading a real group. We have to adapt our tactics to the available characters, accept their weaknesses and suboptimal attributes. We have to accept that not every combination of classes will be available to us (e.g. due to alignment differences, as in BG1), that we will have to use less powerful weapons (because our warrior has skill points in short swords). We will have to think about how to use less powerful spells etc. It amuses me much more and games such as BG1, BG2 and Drakensang are ideal for me in this respect.

For me, this aspect makes the difference between a real RPG and a tactical game. And shit companions from the Dragon Age gay universe can't change that.

totally understandable. dealing with something that is inherently flawed is far more hmm realistic, while a generated party will always tend to be a min/max competition.
though one always can put in his own restraints, rules, and characters which he can roleplay as much as his imagination allows. this is a tough one, but a rewarding indeed. i have some relevant experience in IWD2 along with the rules how to generate a flawed characters with mildly interesting background. i’m sure though that people who are more experienced in lore and mechanics can do it much better. again ceres already made some efforts to give lore background to your generated characters through origins.

The best thing i having party companions with their own story and quests while still having an option for party creation.

won’t work since the temptation to overcome flaws of a pregen characters will always be irresistible.
 

Dr Skeleton

Arcane
Joined
Nov 9, 2014
Messages
846
Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
Apart from the story aspect, pre-generated companies are more interesting from a tactical perspective; instead of leading a power-gaming team of killing machines (which is damn boring), we are leading a real group. We have to adapt our tactics to the available characters, accept their weaknesses and suboptimal attributes. We have to accept that not every combination of classes will be available to us (e.g. due to alignment differences, as in BG1), that we will have to use less powerful weapons (because our warrior has skill points in short swords). We will have to think about how to use less powerful spells etc. It amuses me much more and games such as BG1, BG2 and Drakensang are ideal for me in this respect.
For a more story orientated game (like PS:T) I like companions better, but for a more combat heavy game (like BG or IWD) I'd rather have full party creation. The problem with one character + companions is that it limits your party building and indirectly limits your only character creation too. Want to play a bard? But there is a bard companion at the start of the game, do you want to have 2 bards? Probably not. You want a party to have a druid, a barbarian and a ranged fighter? There's no companions in any of these classes, guess you can only have one of these, and it must be your main character. Maybe I don't want that short sword specialist fighter with 15 strength? Or maybe the only available cleric is good and I wanted to have an evil PC and party?

And that is the optimistic variant (BG) where most companions are at least tolerable and not completely forced on you, in NWN2 for example not only are some companions shit, but you have no option to get rid of them and are forced to have them in the active party on many missions, which can fuck right off.

It's true that full party creation has better potential for power-gaming, but it's more of game-specific encounter design and general difficulty issue, not an issue with party creation itself. You can balance the game around full party creation just as well as you can around knowing that the player will have that short sword fighter with 15 strength. And full party creation isn't just for power gaming, you can have weird or thematic parties: only dwarves, 5 barbarians and a druid, party of monks, no spellcasters, only spellcasters, no cleric, etc. In a game without full party creation you'll usually have some or even most of the same companions every time you play and the overall number of possible party compositions is a fraction of what full party creation offers.

Besides, it's really hard to identify with a group of six, which kills the aspect of playing a role for me (because which role do you play?).
The leader that talks to NPCs? The entire adventuring party? Benevolent spirit that guides the heroes? Don't know, it's never been an issue for me.

The best thing i having party companions with their own story and quests while still having an option for party creation.

won’t work since the temptation to overcome flaws of a pregen characters will always be irresistible.
To me it's the opposite, I couldn't play Kingmaker with mercenaries, because the game was obviously designed around using the pre-made companions, even if some of them are annoying or their stats aren't what I'd like. A ton of content involves their part in the main quest, their personal sidequests and roles in the kingdom government, you could use mercenaries, but you'll miss a ton of content and generally have a poorer experience. I'd love a full party creation game using the Owlcat's engine, but Kingmaker and WotR aren't it.
 

Falkner

Thread Decliner
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658
Wasteland 2
I still haven't played Wiz 8, but from what I can tell, it has a lot of distinct personalities and voice sets to choose from at character creation, and they will frequently comment on what is going on in the game.

I would love to see more games go that route. Save the money and time you would spend on writing and voicing elaborate companions and go wild on that stuff. Give me a greedy personality that will try keep the loot for itself. Give me a creepy personality that other personalities in the party will comment on occasionally.

I get that this has an exponential curve of complexity the more personalities you add, so I don't know how viable it is in terms of development, but I think it could be a good middle ground between pregen characters that limit the party building aspect and fully player-built parties that feel characterless.
 

Lacrymas

Arcane
Joined
Sep 23, 2015
Messages
18,738
Pathfinder: Wrath
You know blobbers with full party creation have existed forever (in terms of gaming forever), right? I have never had trouble "identifying" with a pre-made party. Why would I need to "identify" with anyone at all? Seems ...abstract.
 
Self-Ejected

Lilura

RPG Codex Dragon Lady
Joined
Feb 13, 2013
Messages
5,274
I like both FPC and preset companion pools, but Jagged Alliance 2 proves that deep preset pools with reactivity is supreme. Also, mixing the former with the latter isn't necessarily bad. See ToEE.
 

luj1

You're all shills
Vatnik
Joined
Jan 2, 2016
Messages
15,170
Location
Eastern block
For me, this aspect makes the difference between a real RPG and a tactical game.

a real RPG *is* a tactical game, that's what most of the Codex doesn't understand

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Theldaran

Liturgist
Joined
Oct 10, 2015
Messages
1,772
So, is the beta any gud. I'm looking for a good experience of tactical, 3.5-ruleset gameplay. Everything else is way secondary.
 

Aemar

Arcane
Joined
Aug 18, 2018
Messages
6,321
The only game right now that would make me want to create an EGS account if that was to happen. It looks like we're still at least one year away from release.
 
Self-Ejected

Thac0

Time Mage
Patron
Joined
Apr 30, 2020
Messages
3,292
Location
Arborea
I'm very into cock and ball torture
Lol game is about to die with a whimper before I ever heard much about it.

I personally wouldnt care if they went EGS, I already have an account for Operencia. I am not gonna let a shoddy launcher get between me and a good game.
 

Dodo1610

Arcane
Joined
May 3, 2018
Messages
2,172
Location
Germany
And I was starting to wonder where the money came from when they suddenly changed the release date to 2021 .:lol:
 
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cyborgboy95

News Cyborg
Joined
Aug 24, 2019
Messages
3,076
Steam Early Access?

The current build does not have levelling up, has a lot of issues and is missing a lot of systems. The game is not feature complete by any means and may get slammed on steam in its current state. Also think they need a substantial amount of backing. Moreso than initial EA sales can meet, specially for such a niche game.


According to their discord, Black Geyser seem to have investors stuff already figured out, that's why they are able to delay it so much. Well, if things truly goes south for RB, then at least I can find some solace in roleplaying a dwarf barb Crushmast Crushmastersson in the supposed-meme game, I guess.:kingcomrade:
 

V_K

Arcane
Joined
Nov 3, 2013
Messages
7,714
Location
at a Nowhere near you
Called it once:
Sound like a bit of a feature creep tbh.
Called it twice:
They don't go overboard with the stretch goals
That's because their baseline is a huge feature creep already.
Don't get me wrong, I want them to deliver. But having Ultima-like physics and dynamic worldmap and a huge gameworld with several kingdoms/cultures and complex tactical combat and who knows what else seems just a taaaaaaad overambitious.
And again:
Yeah, at that level of content density and that size of the map, it's not getting finished within the next 5 years, if at all.
 

cyborgboy95

News Cyborg
Joined
Aug 24, 2019
Messages
3,076
They don't go overboard with the stretch goals
That's because their baseline is a huge feature creep already.
Don't get me wrong, I want them to deliver. But having Ultima-like physics and dynamic worldmap and a huge gameworld with several kingdoms/cultures and complex tactical combat and who knows what else seems just a taaaaaaad overambitious.

Well, someone here said that this game always seemed too good to be true (but too good to doubt, as well), guess it shows... It's still one of my most anticipated title, if it ever comes out.

eFWkuge.png
 

SausageInYourFace

Codexian Sausage
Patron
Joined
Dec 28, 2013
Messages
3,858
Location
In your face
Divinity: Original Sin 2 BattleTech Bubbles In Memoria A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag. My team has the sexiest and deadliest waifus you can recruit. Pathfinder: Wrath
This cannot be, I gave them so much money..

:shredder:

Also, which CEO, I thought Hobgoblin was the main guy of this project?
 

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