Prosper Realms of Arkania: Shovelware Edition

[Stabwound]

I can't believe they're trying to sell this shit for $20. Clockwork Knight please post some info and screenshots of just how half-baked this is, I'm morbidly curious now.

Posted this on the news thread, copypasting here.

God, this game is good for the comedic value at least. What kind of incompetence lead to this? I actually asked the dev on their forums about why it was released in this state. No response yet.

 

[Haba]

You guys should stop making any assumptions about WL2/PE based on this mess (even if they're merely ironic). From the first announcement/screenshot it was clear to anyone with half a brain that this would end up to be cheap, incompetent shovelware. Sure, nobody thought it would be that bad, but that's just adding extra fun/schadenfreude. If you expected incline from this game you are seriously deluded.

Nah, just another sign of the great cRPG crash and the looming mass suicides of Codexers. First Chaos Chronicles, then Shadowrun, now this...

 

[Necroscope]

Even the game is terrified at how it sucks.

 

[mondblut]

So, yeah, everything points to this being an early "push it out the door, worry after" release and they don't even care to hide it. Sad. "Check back in 6 weeks" wow, why not delay it for another 2 months then, idiots? They must have completely run out of funds.

To my knowledge, Steam functions as publisher like any other. You sign a contract to provide the game by certain date, and if you miss it, you are in trouble. They didn't have any choice other than to release it as is, otherwise bye bye Steam. And failing to get unto Steam means failure in nowadays market, just like failing to get into retail stores back in the day.

2013: Where customers are unpaid beta testers who will eventually get a playable game given enough beta testing. Just pathetic.

Slowpoke. Customers were unpaid beta testers since mid-90s.

 

[Renevent]

What happened to Chaos Chronicles?

Don't you read the news? http://www.rpgcodex.net/forums/inde...-due-to-legal-trouble-with-bitcomposer.84933/

No didn't see that...really sucks though CC was looking pretty good.

 

[Vault Dweller]

To my knowledge, Steam functions as publisher like any other. You sign a contract to provide the game by certain date, and if you miss it, you are in trouble. They didn't have any choice other than to release it as is, otherwise bye bye Steam.

Steam's a distributor, not a publisher in the traditional sense of the word. If they didn't invest any money, they don't care.

 

[mondblut]

Steam's a distributor, not a publisher in the traditional sense of the word. If they didn't invest any money, they don't care.

They do care. Getting on Steam is an achievement by itself (with closing the doors for new developers, having to pass greenlight etc), and no one wants to piss Gabe off even though he doesn't invest money. In some scary ways, Steam is becoming a monopoly worse than any traditional retail chain.

 

[Stabwound]

They do care. Getting on Steam is an achievement by itself (with closing the doors for new developers, having to pass greenlight etc), and no one wants to piss Gabe off even though he doesn't invest money. In some scary ways, Steam is becoming a monopoly worse than any retailer.

Never thought of this, but you have a point. Steam is vital for indie devs in 2013; look at how well Vogel did with his games after he got them on Steam, etc. He probably sold more copies of Geneforge on Steam than he ever did before since it was released.

I'm not sure how Steam works in regards to release dates, but I'm guessing they won't allow you to push them back? At any rate, this game is so absurdly broken that it could very well be removed from Steam entirely and everyone issued refunds like what happened to WarZ. They actually removed the game, apologized and refunded everyone since the game was so broken.

Let's face it: this game is an alpha, completely broken mess. I think they made an even bigger problem by pushing it out to Steam like this. The comments are full of complaints and screenshots of diarrhea placeholder text, floating moustaches, etc. Enough complaints and this thing is going down in flames.

Kind of sad.

 

[m_s0]

Thirst Suffer sounds like a rad name for a black metal band.

Not really. It sounds like a hardcore/punk band to me

I'm not sure how Steam works in regards to release dates, but I'm guessing they won't allow you to push them back? At any rate, this game is so absurdly broken that it could very well be removed from Steam entirely and everyone issued refunds like what happened to WarZ. They actually removed the game, apologized and refunded everyone since the game was so broken.

It's likely Steam will just pull the game because of user complaints and the flood of refund requests (assuming enough people bought it to warrant a flood) until the devs patch it up to a playable state.

he forgot to add some zeroes

Apparently it's not the only thing he forgot to add

 

[Vault Dweller]

Steam's a distributor, not a publisher in the traditional sense of the word. If they didn't invest any money, they don't care.

They do care. Getting on Steam is an achievement by itself (with closing the doors for new developers, having to pass greenlight etc)...

I don't see anything wrong with it. Over 3000 games were submitted to GL when it started. It's much easier to do an automated process than to sort these games out manually. Games that manage to gather the minimum support get Greenlit, the rest remain on hold until they do.

In some scary ways, Steam is becoming a monopoly worse than any traditional retail chain.

They are certainly the strongest portal, but hardly a monopoly. An indie developer can make a living off GoG, GG, GMG, Desura, etc.

 

[Bobbles]

It's likely Steam will just pull the game because of user complaints and the flood of refund requests (assuming enough people bought it to warrant a flood) until the devs patch it up to a playable state.

With this and Citadels launching within four days of each other, the devs might simply profit from Steam not wanting to pull too many greenlit games from their platform at once.

Citadels is probably is a worse spot, since we don't even have a promise of regular patches.

 

[LundB]

Steam's a distributor, not a publisher in the traditional sense of the word. If they didn't invest any money, they don't care.

They do care. Getting on Steam is an achievement by itself (with closing the doors for new developers, having to pass greenlight etc), and no one wants to piss Gabe off even though he doesn't invest money. In some scary ways, Steam is becoming a monopoly worse than any traditional retail chain.

What are you basing the assumption that steam won't allow release dates to be pushed back on, or is it just tinfoil hattery? Because I've seen a number of games in the 'coming soon' slip months later than initially indicated. Unless you provide some compelling evidence to back up your claims, I'm gonna have to consider VD more reliable, since he's actually had to deal with steam (got a game successfully Greenlit).

Also, judging by the awful crap on Greenlight, thank god Steam DOESN'T open its arms to every indie out there. If they did, we'd be (even more) up to our necks in slenderman clone horror games and 'retro' platformer garbage.

 

[Infinitron]

I've never heard of Steam demanding a developer stick to a release date.

Steam not wanting to pull too many greenlit games from their platform at once.

What's Greenlight got to do with it?

 

[Bobbles]

I just use "greenlit" to mean "Steam lets you sell this game through their platform." If they had decent quality control, they'd never have accepted Citadels either, no matter how reliable the publisher was. That game is getting 1% to 10% scores in the German press, which traditionally gives a couple points more than the English media...

 

[Shadowfang]

Shadowrun postponed their release that and i am sure steam didn't say a word against it.
"So its next month then? Hm okay..."

 

[mondblut]

I'm not sure how Steam works in regards to release dates, but I'm guessing they won't allow you to push them back?

I bet they won't. Why do you think Eador absolutely had to be released at april 18 no matter its state, bugs and missing functionalities be damned? Because Steam expected it at april 18, and if Steam expects your game by a certain date, you don't have a luxury of choice.

At any rate, this game is so absurdly broken that it could very well be removed from Steam entirely and everyone issued refunds like what happened to WarZ. They actually removed the game, apologized and refunded everyone since the game was so broken.

Let's face it: this game is an alpha, completely broken mess. I think they made an even bigger problem by pushing it out to Steam like this. The comments are full of complaints and screenshots of diarrhea placeholder text, floating moustaches, etc. Enough complaints and this thing is going down in flames.

*shrug* the last part is being repeated daily since the days of Daggerfall, but the industry as a whole hardly cares. The butthurt outcry like "i will never buy your gaem again!!1" might kill a particular developer, but all it means is that you'll be getting similarly broken games from another developer. Better accept it as a natural fact of life, like Paradox fanbase learnt to.

Anyway, if a choice is between releasing a broken game which hopefully will be eventually brought into shape, and not releasing a game at all, I'll side with the former any day. Both as developer and as customer.

 

[m_s0]

Their "quality control" seems to constitute basically of releasing the game and checking whether, and if so how much, does it piss the buyers off.

 

[Infinitron]

I bet they won't. Why do you think Eador absolutely had to be released at april 18 no matter its state, bugs and missing functionalities be damned? Because Steam expected it at april 18, and if Steam expects your game by a certain date, you don't have a luxury of choice.

Yes, I'm sure it had nothing to do with Eador devs wanting cash ASAP

Does mondblut have ties within the German shovelware development community or something? Cause otherwise I don't understand these apologetics.

 

[Vault Dweller]

I'm not sure how Steam works in regards to release dates, but I'm guessing they won't allow you to push them back?

I bet they won't. Why do you think Eador absolutely had to be released at april 18 no matter its state, bugs and missing functionalities be damned? Because Steam expected it at april 18, and if Steam expects your game by a certain date, you don't have a luxury of choice.

Are you sure? Is there more to the story? Was Eador Greenlit or got on Steam via a third-party publisher? Where did the release date come from? Was it forced by Steam, was it suggested by the developer?

I have nothing but good things to say about my experience with Steam's representatives so far - friendly, helpful, explained all the tools and features (instead of linking to some help files), answered all questions. We explained that our release date was estimated and that it would depend on the final beta test's results and they had no problem with it. There was absolutely no pressure to name a date and stick with it.

 

[LundB]

I'm not sure how Steam works in regards to release dates, but I'm guessing they won't allow you to push them back?

I bet they won't. Why do you think Eador absolutely had to be released at april 18 no matter its state, bugs and missing functionalities be damned? Because Steam expected it at april 18, and if Steam expects your game by a certain date, you don't have a luxury of choice.

You're saying this again, but I'm just not sure where you're getting the idea from. A fuckton of games on Steam get their release dates shifted back all the time, and I can't find a single person claiming they were forced to release early by Steam as an excuse for their buggy as shit game (despite the fact that devs love nothing more than excuses). The one person in this thread who has actually needed to communicate with steam about release dates and whatnot has said the opposite of what you're saying.

Seriously, is blaming Steam the new form of evilpublisheritis? OMG I'M SURE ALL THESE DEVS ARE PUREHEARTED GREAT GUYS WHO WOULD NEVER RELEASE A GAME BUGRIDDEN BECAUSE THEY NEEDED THE MONEY, THEY WERE TOTALLY FORCED BY THE EVIL STEAM DESPITE NO EVIDENCE TO SUPPORT THE IDEA AT ALL. ALL DEVS WOULD MAKE PERFECT BUG-FREE AWESOME GAMES IF IT WEREN'T FOR THE PUBLISHERS AND STEAM.

Come on now, I never pegged you as one to blindly suck devcock.

I have nothing but good things to say about my experience with Steam's representatives so far - friendly, helpful, explained all the tools and features (instead of linking to some help files), answered all questions. We explained that our release date was estimated and that it would depend on the final beta test's results and they had no problem with it. There was absolutely no pressure to name a date and stick with it.

Just you wait, you gullible dumbfuck. Once they have your trust they'll set an unreasonable release date, and if you fail to meet it, they'll send their evil Steam mafia goons to break your legs and rape your dog. Because there's nothing they want more than to sell your game in a buggy unfinished state instead of its fully realised for, since that's totally great for their cashflow. Trust me I haven't read it anywhere credible but I bet they do this.

 

[Necroscope]

Thirst Suffer sounds like a rad name for a black metal band.

Not really. It sounds like a hardcore/punk band to me

Actually there's a one-man black metal band "Thirst":

^Pretty awesome album btw, especially if you like "In the Nightside Eclipse" (just listen to Irrestible Temptation).

 

[mondblut]

Are you sure? Is there more to the story? Was Eador Greenlit or got on Steam via a third-party publisher? Where did the release date come from? Was it forced by Steam, was it suggested by the developer?

I have nothing but good things to say about my experience with Steam's representatives so far - friendly, helpful, explained all the tools and features (instead of linking to some help files), answered all questions. We explained that our release date was estimated and that it would depend on the final beta test's results and they had no problem with it. There was absolutely no pressure to name a date and stick with it.

It was greenlit. To my understanding, the master release date was agreed upon at some point down the road, and after that there was no way out.

Does mondblut have ties within the German shovelware development community or something? Cause otherwise I don't understand these apologetics.

I enjoy lancing the ulcers of irrational butthurt. Besides, I too am in the business of releasing broken games

 

[Infinitron]

Besides, I too am in the business of releasing broken games

Well, you answered my question!

 

[Renevent]

I've never heard of a developer saying they were pressured by Steam to release on a specific date. Everything I've read by people who have worked with Steam seem to indicate they are very easy to work with in this regard. Of course just because I've never heard of it doesn't mean it can't be true, but if you are going to throw those kinds of allegations out there I think a little more substance needs to be shown.

 

[mondblut]

You're saying this again, but I'm just not sure where you're getting the idea from.

I am privy to certain insider info. The picture is incomplete, me not being anywhere near upper management, but that was the impression I was getting. "Forced by evil blah blah" is your choice of words, not mine. All I am saying is once you set the date to provide the master, you have little space to maneuver if you want to keep good relations.

ALL DEVS WOULD MAKE PERFECT BUG-FREE AWESOME GAMES IF IT WEREN'T FOR THE PUBLISHERS AND STEAM.

That much is true.

Infinite development time makes perfect games, just ask Cleve