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Redfall - open world vampire slaying co-op FPS from Arkane Austin

Spacer's Nugget

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Strap Yourselves In
The only question remains for me is what happened to the Prey team. 50 people don't just go away because they were asked to make an co-op shooter. Were they laid off after Prey?
What would you do in this situation? You are a game developer for the last bastion of the Immersive Sim design philosophy (which inspired you to make games in the first place) in the whole industry. The studio's output is somewhat niche and poorly marketed, but still manages to garner praise from the reviewers and public alike, and most importantly, it always sells decently in a "long tail" basis. Then, one day, the higher-ups decide that's not enough. So your heavily specialized dev team has to scrap whatever the fuck you actually want to work on for a trend-seeker: how about an Always-Online Co-op Hero Shooter riddled with MicroTransactions™? Your Creative Director, who's also the studio founder and CEO, finds himself worned out and leaves. Then your fellow veteran devs follow suit. The studio higher-ups keep hiring the wrong people, for the wrong reasons, to try and fill the void.

What would you fucking do?
 
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Re: Redfalls team, in particular the world/level design team is interesting. It consists almost exclusively of "fresh blood", mostly brought in from other open world developers/projects. Going to their LinkedIn profile reveals that a lot of them were hired as late as early 2022... I get that they wanted experience where possible and/or wanted to quickly fill their roster. But it also seems that Redfall didn't fully take off until last year.

Lead Open World Designer:

Rachel Adams. Ex Mass Effect Andromeda and Anthem. Rachel Adams video game credits and biography - MobyGames

Open World Design Team:

Jason Pane: Newbie. Ex Destiny. Jason Payne video game credits and biography - MobyGames

Morgan Gain: Newbie. Ex Mafia. Morgan Goin video game credits and biography - MobyGames

Lead Level Artist:
Michael Hutchison. Newbie. Ex Shroud Of the Avatar, Star Wars: The Old Republic, animation jobs for Sierra oldies.Michael Hutchison video game credits and biography - MobyGames

Level Architecture Team:

Jim Magill. Did stuff for Prey already. Jim Magill video game credits and biography - MobyGames

Freddie Lee. Newbie. Ex Mafia III. Freddie Lee video game credits and biography - MobyGames

Camden Beyer. Newbie. Ex Saints Row. Camden Bayer video game credits and biography - MobyGames

Lilian chow. Newbie. Ex Far Cry + Watch Dogs. Lilian Chow video game credits and biography - MobyGames

Elisabeth Kim. Newbie. Ex Watch Dogs. Elisabeth Kim video game credits and biography - MobyGames

Nicole Tan. Newbie. Ex Tomb Raider, Avengers, etc. Nicole Tan video game credits and biography - MobyGames

Alison Dela Cruz. Newbie. Allison Dela Cruz video game credits and biography - MobyGames

Dan Qinn. Newbie. Ex Days Gone. Dan Quinn video game credits and biography - MobyGames

Katherine Stull. Newbie. Katherine Stull - Level Architect - Arkane Studios | LinkedIn



Level Design:

Jeremy Catlin. Did some stuff for Prey already. Jeremy Catlin video game credits and biography - MobyGames

Kelly Mangerino Ferry. Newbie. Ex Mafia III. Kelly Mangerino Ferry video game credits and biography - MobyGames

Campaign Level Design Team:

Antony Huso. Arkane Veteran. Anthony Huso video game credits and biography - MobyGames

Steve Powers: Arkane-, Deus-Ex- and Origin-Veteran. Steve Powers video game credits and biography - MobyGames

George Royer: A couple years at Arkane already, seems to have been promoted though (was a playtester on Prey). George Royer video game credits and biography - MobyGames

Paris Stacy: Newbie. Paris Stacy - Level Designer - Arkane Studios | LinkedIn

Cory O'Brien: Newbie. Did writing before. Cory O'Brien video game credits and biography - MobyGames
 
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Bad Sector

Arcane
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2,334
Insert Title Here RPG Wokedex Codex Year of the Donut Codex+ Now Streaming! Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
he is mentioned on Additional design what makes my theory that production started at mid 2021 at earliest more interesting

It is very common that whenever you see "Additional XYZ" in credits it doesn't mean that they did less of XYZ but that when the game was released they were not in the company or the main development team. Whenever someone leaves (or is fired), they tend to be put under the "Additional XYZ" parts in credits instead of the proper "XYZ", though for some companies it may also mean that they were not part of the main development team of the game too.

Also some people may leave during the development of one game but come back during the development of the next/another game, in which case they'll be in the "Additional" parts of the credits section of the game they left if they were not in the company when the game was released but still be in the company.

Finally some people do not update their LinkedIn pages - i still haven't bothered to update mine with the last company i worked at (and already left) and the last update i made was already a few months old at the time i made it :-P. Honestly, LinkedIn depresses me with how enterprisey fake everything that is posted there looks so i almost never visit it.
 

Latelistener

Arcane
Joined
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Messages
2,622
The only question remains for me is what happened to the Prey team. 50 people don't just go away because they were asked to make an co-op shooter. Were they laid off after Prey?
What would you do in this situation? You are a game developer for the last bastion of the Immersive Sim design philosophy (which inspired you to make games in the first place) in the whole industry. The studio's output is somewhat niche and poorly marketed, but still manages to garner praise from the reviewers and public alike, and most importantly, it always sells decently in a "long tail" basis. Then, one day, the higher-ups decide that's not enough. So your heavily specialized dev team has to scrap whatever the fuck you actually want to work on for a trend-seeker: how about an Always-Online Co-op Hero Shooter riddled with MicroTransactions™? Your Creative Director, who's also the studio founder and CEO, finds himself worned out and leaves. Then your fellow veteran devs follow suit. The studio higher-ups keep hiring the wrong people, for the wrong reasons, to try and fill the void.

What would you fucking do?
I read their salaries weren't exactly biggest in the industry, so my guess is when they were asked to do an online shooter, they figured they could do the same shit in some other studio and for a much bigger paycheck.
 

Spacer's Nugget

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Strap Yourselves In
The only question remains for me is what happened to the Prey team. 50 people don't just go away because they were asked to make an co-op shooter. Were they laid off after Prey?
What would you do in this situation? You are a game developer for the last bastion of the Immersive Sim design philosophy (which inspired you to make games in the first place) in the whole industry. The studio's output is somewhat niche and poorly marketed, but still manages to garner praise from the reviewers and public alike, and most importantly, it always sells decently in a "long tail" basis. Then, one day, the higher-ups decide that's not enough. So your heavily specialized dev team has to scrap whatever the fuck you actually want to work on for a trend-seeker: how about an Always-Online Co-op Hero Shooter riddled with MicroTransactions™? Your Creative Director, who's also the studio founder and CEO, finds himself worned out and leaves. Then your fellow veteran devs follow suit. The studio higher-ups keep hiring the wrong people, for the wrong reasons, to try and fill the void.

What would you fucking do?
I read their salaries weren't exactly biggest in the industry, so my guess is when they were asked to do an online shooter, they figured they could do the same shit in some other studio and for a much bigger paycheck.
Well, Seth Shain (Lead Systems Designer on Prey) did exactly that, and he's now a Design Lead at Bungie (developers of Destiny). :P
 
Joined
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5,903
Media is dead. Maybe some small independents will surprise us from time to time, but I wouldn't hold my breath.
Everyone's finally waking up to the clown show that is western AAA game development. It's crashing right before our very eyes. This is what we've wanted for a long time.

Next comes the shakeout. Back to games made by 25 people not 500 people. Then can come the healing.

Indie will ride the wave for a few years, but I suspect good times are on the way soon.

In the mean time, plenty of Japanese games and older games to be playing.
This sounds like massive copium to me.

Things won't get any better, they'll continue to recede into a bottomless pit, deep into yet another lower deep.

The vast majority of "indies" are just as bad as the mainstream crap, except they're regurgitated mashups and somehow get a free pass by some people. I'm not one of them. Lack of ambition and skill on a smaller scale isn't anything to be proud of - in fact, quite the opposite. I may hate indie games even more than the rest nowadays, especially games with pixel vomit that passes for "retro". The zoomers that make these abominations couldn't lick the dirt off the toenail of an actual engineer that worked on decent videogames 30 years ago.

Japanese games are also steadily declining into absolute worthlessness. There's no saving this industry at all. I've made my peace that there's plenty of good games from the past that I haven't played and I can always replay the classics. I'd rather play Doom wads than any game made in the last 20 years.

It's been a good run. Those who grew up with it and saw the industry reach its peak are lucky. Contemporary videogames are bottom of the barrel trash, not an ounce better than shit tv series or shit Hollywood. It's all Doritos (tm). Not worth anyone's time.
 

Spacer's Nugget

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It's ironic that Human Head's Prey 2 wasn't up to snuff in the eyes of Bethesda execs, and yet Redfall is.

Fun fact: both co-developers of Redfall, Arkane Austin and Roundhouse (formerly known as Human Head Studios), worked on games in the Prey franchise (and both studios had their respective sequels canceled, because we can't have nice things :lol:)
 
Joined
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5,903
Studio names mean absolutely nothing, their current employees are all incompetent diversity hire dangerhairs, troons and other associated fauna. The competent ones bailed out a long, long time ago. There might be some very few borderline passable people, but they can't make any decisions or speak out against any of the lunacy going on and still keep their jobs, so they probably don't.

I find it extremely amusing that people think that current games are terribly optimized (in addition to being complete shit) due to "laziness" or "lack of respect"; it boils down to simple incompetence. You see the same shit everywhere, on a societal level. These new people just don't know what to do, or how.

Pretty soon we won't be able to fix bridges or fly airplanes, much less build them. For a preview just check out South Africa. It's gonna be great.
 

sosmoflux

Educated
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Apr 16, 2022
Messages
339

We've been here before.

Around 10 years ago I was ready to give up on games ever being good too. It was a race to the bottom. Everyone pandering to the new audience of normies. Everything on console.

Then Demon's Souls came out. Then Dark Souls came out. Your mileage may vary on those games but they reminded everyone that good, real games can be made.

Elden Ring just blew every metric out of the sky and it's arguably the what, 7th version of Demon's Souls, and just as difficult and obtuse.

Disco proved that you can write competent, mature games and people show up for it.

Doom Eternal is unironically the best & most difficult FPS ever made, and it was made recently.

So idk man. I gave up a decade ago and was proven wrong. With AAA dying it's slow death and everyone (slowly, finally) realizing you can't pack studios full of 500 retards and expect results, I think there's a return to form possible.

America and its rotten, dying culture/society/politics isn't helping though, for sure.
 
Joined
Jan 5, 2021
Messages
502
Most Arkane Austin devs I follow are keeping quiet, but this Senior 2D Artist shared her feelings:



To which I say:



And fuck each and every one defending this cynical, pathetic cash grab attempt as "Arkane trying to push immsim to new heights", or bullshit to that effect.


Eh, I feel like, while it's fair to give shit to the game, it's high-level designers, the managers responsible, the company etc, I don't feel comfortable shitting on the individual artists/programmers/etc.

I guess I feel for them because I also work in the industry, but the number of times I have seen a higher-up come in asking for me to either rush something or purposely make it bad is staggering. There was literally one time where I was making a platformer for a client, and I had put in a good movement system that felt decent to play, didn't have too much friction, and was relatively simple to control and responsive. Literally 2 days later I was told that "this game is too easy and we need more people to fail it" because the game itself was designed as one of those "play repeatedly and see how far you get" endless platformer type games, and having people get further would disincentivise them from spending more on the game. So I was forced to break the movement system, and now it feels like crap to play because it's slow and unresponsive. I don't even show the game to my friends because every person I have shown it to has criticised the "shitty movement system".

I'm sure many of the artists and programmers are doing their best work given the time constraints and the ridiculous limitations imposed by their superiors.

This whole project looks like it was rushed out the door as quickly as possible. I guarantee you every programmer on the team said "This isn't finished. We need months to QA this. We have written way too much code way too quickly for this to really be a reliable game. Half our systems aren't completed", and they were ignored.

Obviously there are some useless, talentless frauds who have only gotten there by playing whatever card they needed to play, but I would wager most of the low-level developers at Arkane are at least competent, given their previous games.

I predict a mass exodus after this. The people who were ignored are going to look for positions elsewhere, at companies that won't taint their reputations as developers by mishandling projects.
 

sosmoflux

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Idk man I get the impression this is a case where everyone on the team there is so lazy and incompetent that they honestly thought it was good to go.

These are people that reinterpret an honest assessment of thier lacking skills as "imposter syndrome"
 

toughasnails

Guest
Disco proved that you can write competent, mature games and people show up for it.

Doom Eternal is unironically the best & most difficult FPS ever made, and it was made recently.
lol. lmao
I wouldn't say the best by a long shot but for sure difficult. At was at one point in 10s an undeniable turn from the absolute dominance of narrative driven, cinematic titles and the quest for maximum accessibility back to gameplay focused and high difficulty titles. And the zoomers, whatever else their habits, can't get enough of it. Witness the forums for any souls-like and the inane self imposed challenges and the quest for ballancing out anything that could pass for exploits that could help lesser players.
 
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Doom Eternal is unironically the best & most difficult FPS ever made, and it was made recently.

Eternal isn't even the best modern Doom game, let alone "best and most difficult FPS ever made".

That's one of the stupidest opinions I've ever heard.

Idk man I get the impression this is a case where everyone on the team there is so lazy and incompetent that they honestly thought it was good to go.

These are people that reinterpret an honest assessment of thier lacking skills as "imposter syndrome"

Based on some tweets by a couple of idiots?

You do realise thousands of people work on any modern game, right?
 

Roguey

Codex Staff
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Eternal is easily the best FPS ever made. Name something better. It'll be funny.

What's even better is it was made in a time where difficult games and not-made-for-controller games were verboten.
nuDoom

They ruined it with excessive writing, mandatory melee kills, and botching Mick Gordon's soundtrack.
 
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Eternal is easily the best FPS ever made. Name something better. It'll be funny.

Even if I'm only allowed to reference other Doom games, this one is still easy.

Doom 2016.

Doom Eternal is basically Doom 2016, but bigger. The problem is that the "but bigger" is usually poorly thought out and generally results in more confused gameplay and design that clashes with itself in horrible ways. Doom 2016 had a lot of nuance in it's gameplay that was very interesting if you scratched the surface just a little. Eternal added so much extra stuff that the nuance of 2016 largely got trampled over. They also tried to fix a bunch of issues from 2016 but their fixes just ended up making the problems worse and reducing/eliminating the gameplay depth.

For example, Doom 2016 had a problem where people wouldn't use a variety of weapons and the Gauss was considered overpowered. The correct way to fix this problem is to implement enemy weapon weaknesses (which they did), but they also overcorrected by massively reducing ammo counts. For unrelated reasons, they also gave us access to 2 throwable grenades instead of one, both on separate cooldowns, and both quite powerful. This has serious knock on effects for the rest of the game. Instead of allowing players to properly manage resources and make tradeoffs to expend rarer resources for easier kills (the entire point of ammo in every game), the ammo counts are so low that instead players are supposed to always save specific weapons for specific enemies, in a sort of boring paper-rock-scissors gameplay, while they run around waiting for their cooldowns to recharge. Worse, because the player is very likely to end every fight with no/low ammo (or run out midway through), they needed to give them a reliable way to refill during and between battles, which is why they implemented chainsaw recharging. And because it recharges, there was no need to intelligently place chainsaw fuel anymore. This completely eliminated one of the most interesting early-game mechanics of 2016, which allowed you to trade ammo reliability for a big, instant kill. If I had 3 chainsaw pips, I could kill 3 imps, which would fully restock all of my ammo 3 times. Or, I could kill 1 hell knight, which would remove a major early game threat, but only allow me to refill once. Even more interesting, to take on larger enemies, I needed 4 pips, meaning I had to upgrade my ammo using argent cells, allowing for a level of build depth - I can upgrade health/armour to focus on raw survivability, or gain the ability to instant-kill larger enemies like mancubi with the chainsaw, which is a good tradeoff. Because of the extremely limited ammo and recharging chainsaw of Eternal, all of this is gone completely. Now, instead, you're supposed to mindlessly run around arenas looking for imps, with the chainsaw being relegated to "press X on an imp occasionally in combat when you're running low" and having absolutely no depth whatsoever, and encounters are designed in such a way that they are constantly flooding the arena with small enemies, to stop you running out of ammo completely, and the ammo upgrade doesn't even give you more max chainsaw ammo anymore, eliminating the ammo upgrade for larger enemies gameplay entirely. What was a flawed but interesting system is now a slightly less flawed but much more boring system. Many aspects of Eternal are like this.

This is not mentioning the other tacked-on and not-well-thought-out gameplay elements like the overreliance of platforming sections, the extremely cringey player dialogue (especially the scene where he yells "rip and tear" repeatedly and it just sounds overly edgy), the confused art-style mixing surreal and cartoony elements with mundane looking bases and industrial areas, the general instability and performance issues related to Denuvo on release, the severely lackluster soundtrack, or any of the other big issues with the game that aren't present in the previous entry.

Eternal has some interesting enemy designs in it, and it does make some genuine improvements to the formula. I can understand why people like it, and the expanded enemy roster specifically can make it feel like "Doom 2016 but better" when it's firing on all cylinders. However, it's brought down by it hyperfocus on trying to enforce the developers vision - that is, one of players constantly switching weapons, using abilities constantly, and generally playing it in one specific (albeit difficult) way, which undermined a lot of the other areas of gameplay. Eternal is pretty fun, I just wish it didn't feel so soulless on account of pushing everything into the same direction of "run around and shoot shit". For all of Doom Eternals claims about "play your way" and "use what you find", there's really only one way to play it. Doom 2016 isn't exactly an RPG masterpiece, but there was some interesting strategy to be had under the hood, much of which I believe went right over players heads because they were too distracted by the gorey combat, the tight presentation and the general badassery of it.

When you consider the complexity of it's gameplay (or lack thereof), Doom 2016 somehow manages to be a lot more than the sum of it's parts. Doom Eternal, on the other hand, feels very hollow and lackluster after a while despite having a lot more mechanics and enemies. I got so bored I couldn't even finish the DLCs

What's even better is it was made in a time where difficult games and not-made-for-controller games were verboten.

Really? 2021 was the height of the modern boomer shooter craze. While this was a triple A release and most boomer shooters of the time were indie games, it was clear and obvious that the demand was there (especially with the success of the previous title), making it a pretty safe bet that it would do well. The real risk was releasing a Doom game in 2016 to a market saturated by hero shooters and multiplayer-focused games to an audience of oldschool gamers who were skeptical of it from day one, especially when id was largely know at the time for their lackluster previous titles. Doom Eternal is, if anything, a safe/conservative sequel.
 
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just

Liturgist
Joined
Feb 6, 2019
Messages
1,343
it fills me with joy seeing this fail
hope the cancer spreads and whole gaming industry crashes
 
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Sarathiour

Cipher
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community managers

Fat and lesbian

theyre-the-same-picture-pam-the-office-meme-1536x871.png
 

Lincolnberry

Educated
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Dec 2, 2019
Messages
94
Bought Weird West. Not sure if I'll ever actually play it but hopefully a small contribution increases however small the likelihood Raf makes something worth my time again.
 
Joined
Sep 22, 2022
Messages
187
Most Arkane Austin devs I follow are keeping quiet, but this Senior 2D Artist shared her feelings:



To which I say:



And fuck each and every one defending this cynical, pathetic cash grab attempt as "Arkane trying to push immsim to new heights", or bullshit to that effect.

Redfall WAS going to feature microtransactions, for starters.

That Sadie twit disabled replies for anyone she didn't @mention, what a gutless crybaby.
 

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