Putting the 'role' back in role-playing games since 2002.
Donate to Codex
Good Old Games
  • Welcome to rpgcodex.net, a site dedicated to discussing computer based role-playing games in a free and open fashion. We're less strict than other forums, but please refer to the rules.

    "This message is awaiting moderator approval": All new users must pass through our moderation queue before they will be able to post normally. Until your account has "passed" your posts will only be visible to yourself (and moderators) until they are approved. Give us a week to get around to approving / deleting / ignoring your mundane opinion on crap before hassling us about it. Once you have passed the moderation period (think of it as a test), you will be able to post normally, just like all the other retards.

Redfall - open world vampire slaying co-op FPS from Arkane Austin

Late Bloomer

Scholar
Joined
Apr 7, 2022
Messages
3,504
Why were the previews so positive?



Here is a preview titled

Redfall is a serious game of the year contender | Hands-on preview


Let’s get this out of the way right now: Redfall has already done enough to convince me it’s going to be fantastic. After playing a few hours, it feels like a combination of all that Arkane has learned from the Dishonored series and Deathloop, but mixed it in with a supernatural narrative and, crucially, some fantastic shooting

Of the playable characters, I went with Layla because, to be honest with you, the fact she can summon her vampire boyfriend who will go and kick vampire ass for me was too much of a temptation to ignore.

But now I can firmly say I know what kind of game it is, and Arkane continues to be one of the developers in the industry that have my trust, and I’d be stunned if it didn’t end up being a serious game of the year contender. Is it May yet?

https://www.godisageek.com/2023/03/redfall-is-a-serious-game-of-the-year-contender-hands-on-preview/
 

POOPERSCOOPER

Prophet
Joined
Mar 6, 2003
Messages
2,808
Location
California
People used to make fun of game journalists but I think most journalists are just fucking retarded but gamers are usually retarded too so if you combine journalists and gamers you make a mega retard 2000.

Thoughts from Pooper
 

sosmoflux

Educated
Joined
Apr 16, 2022
Messages
339
It's my belief that Dishonoured burned out Harvey and Prey burned out Colantonio. They killed themselves for those games, resulting in Colantonio dropping out.

That then, coupled with wokeness and trump derangement syndrome going up to volume 11, absolutely destroyed any creative will Harvey had left. It's a job and he's kicking the can down the road until someone fires him.
 
Joined
Jan 7, 2012
Messages
14,959
Why were the previews so positive?



Media will lie for money until a consensus is reached such that further lies would endanger their career.

Also not really related but I saw his review and this retard actually plays in 1080p w/ DLSS on performance mode. This nigga is running his game in 540p. This is 2022 and people are actually running on resolutions that were obsolete in 2000 just because its an option that devs allow after not optimizing their games, people want to run at "epic" quality settings, and neither actually cares about image quality.

 
Joined
Jan 5, 2021
Messages
502
Xbox should just go away. Things were better when it was just Sony and Ninty <3

People still game on the 30FPS locked down nightmare that is modern consoles?

When your entire market is based around holding content hostage behind "exclusivity" to force people to buy your product, you know your product is shit.

We would all be better off if all consoles died out tomorrow.

If market trends are anything to go buy, consoles are becoming obsolete and people aren't buying them anymore, so Phil would be wise to find himself a new job within Microsoft.

It's funny you mention that, because I recently read this:



This is false.

BioWare has never had good writing.

I played Baldur's Gate for the first time recently and god it's just awful writing wise. Fucking Icewind Dale has better writing and it's a combat-focused game.

I forgot Prey. It wasn't bad but I still prefer System Shock 2 and Bioshock.

I get that Prey isn't perfect and absolutely falls apart in the second half, becoming unredeemably awful by the end, but I seriously don't understand how any fan of immersive sims could like Bioshock over Prey. Bioshock is not an immersive sim. Bioshock has no immersive sim elements. Bioshock is a shooter which pretends to be a "Shock game" by adding on token elements of the previous Shock games, namely System Shock 2. SS2 had Psi powers you could invest in as a build as long as you invested in the PSI stat. Bioshock has a list of mostly combat-focused powers that everyone can use with minimal investment. SS2 has an inventory system that expands based on strength, O/S upgrades, and implants. Bioshock has unlimited inventory but very low item caps to pretend it has an inventory (and way too many items overall). SS2 has hacking that requires resource and skill investments, and leaves you vulnerable while you do it. Bioshock pauses time to give you a minigame that anyone can complete (and in fact popularised the hacking mini-game trope, which is a cardinal sin by itself). Every feature of Bioshock is a dumbed down, pathetic version of what came before. Add on the dogshit barely-functional AI and the libertarian meme that passes for a "story", and you have a pretty mediocre FPS game where the shooting doesn't even feel good. Bioshock has no build diversity, no meaningful choices (even the binary good/evil choice is lackluster), and no player agency. Bioshock is not an immersive sim, and never has been.

The only features Bioshock accurately ported over from immersive sims was the terrible boss fights and the lackluster endings.

Prey has it's problems but at least the core imsim elements are actually present and accounted for, even if the execution leaves a lot to be desired. Prey is a game which could be turned into an excellent immersive sim with some relatively minor changes to it's gameplay and a redo of a chunk of it's levels. Mooncrash comes close to being a perfect version of Prey's gameplay, until you get to the point where you have so many time delays and other goodies that it's no longer a challenge, but the design absolutely shines for the first 10 hours or so. Bioshock would need to be rebuilt from the ground up to be even remotely good as an immersive sim.
 
Last edited:

Roguey

Codex Staff
Staff Member
Sawyerite
Joined
May 29, 2010
Messages
36,525
BioWare has never had good writing.
Bioware games had writing with mass appeal and Black Isle didn't, so from the perspective of financial success and greater customer satisfaction, in addition to success among game critics (who are admittedly a stupid bunch, but they also liked Black Isle writing so) Bioware had good writing.
 
Joined
Jan 5, 2021
Messages
502
BioWare has never had good writing.
Bioware games had writing with mass appeal and Black Isle didn't, so from the perspective of financial success and greater customer satisfaction, in addition to success among game critics (who are admittedly a stupid bunch, but they also liked Black Isle writing so) Bioware had good writing.

Name a single BioWare game with good writing

(if you say Mass Effect or KOTOR I am going to laugh at you)
 
Joined
Jan 5, 2021
Messages
502
I strongly disagree with these posts SomeGuy but you’re dead on in regards to Bioshock.

Replay any BioWare game you're nostalgic for and I think you'll come around.

I made the HORRENDOUS MISTAKE of trying to replay Dragon Age recently, because I remember it being good. I couldn't stomach more than 10 minutes of it, and the cheesy writing was one of the biggest factors. The same thing happened when I finally played Baldur's Gate after having it so hyped up by the community for so long. I've been burned too many times trying to play or replay BioWare games that I am done with them. The few positive memories I have of them will stay as memories, because I don't want to sully them with reality.

It got to the point where I started modding Infinity Engine games to vastly improve the horrendous aspects of the gameplay (like the resting mechanic), which turned out AWESOME for Icewind Dale since it already had a good core and just needed some polish, but Baldur's Gate still sucked even with the changes.
 

SpaceWizardz

Liturgist
Joined
Sep 28, 2018
Messages
1,158
Bioware games had writing with mass appeal and Black Isle didn't, so from the perspective of financial success and greater customer satisfaction, in addition to success among game critics (who are admittedly a stupid bunch, but they also liked Black Isle writing so) Bioware had good writing.

Name a single BioWare game with good writing

(if you say Mass Effect or KOTOR I am going to laugh at you)
Bioware's competition was with the empty-headed console shooters that dominated the 2000s, not any of Black Isle/Troika/Obsidian/CDPR's output.
Their lingering prestige at this point is entirely owned to not having seen a serious effort from them since Inquisition.
 
Joined
Jan 5, 2021
Messages
502
Bioware's competition was with the empty-headed console shooters that dominated the 2000s, not any of Black Isle/Troika/Obsidian/CDPR's output.
Their lingering prestige at this point is entirely owned to not having seen a serious effort from them since Inquisition.

I sort of agree, although Baldurs Gate was released in 1998, and everyone loved it despite it not being very good.

I think part of the reason for that has more to do with the DnD games craze of the 1990s rather than the mindless shooters of the 2000s (not to mention the 1990s was also dominated by shooters too).

From about 1989 to 1999, every PC RPG was basically trying to be "Your classic DnD sessions with your mates, but on your PC!" and it was absolutely to their detriment. To make it worse, being able to fill your game with a somewhat large but mediocre world was downright impressive at the time, so I can see WHY people liked Baldur's Gate. The game definitely has some strong points and the size and complexity of it for the time is downright impressive, I don't mean to disparage it too much. It's just that, underneath it all, the story really isn't that great, the main villains are super cheesy, and most of the characters suck. The encounter design is bland and uninteresting, most of the combat is just auto-generated critters that you fight while traversing largely empty wilderness maps trying to reach your next town, rather than being handcrafted encounters, and the DnD ruleset (a ruleset which was designed around dungeon crawling, not talking RPGs) absolutely falls apart when the majority of your game is spent in what are essentially call-and-response dialogue boxes with cariacatures of characters.

Bioware characters tend to fall into one of a few archetypes. You will see the buff guy who takes no nonesense, the squishy wizard with the squeaky voice who is "working on something too important to talk to you", the guy that steals everything, the slurring drunk, and the uber evil villain who laughs a lot and has a deep voice. Bioware has no other character ideas. Once you see this trope, BioWare writing unravels and becomes obvious for the repetitive nonsense that it is.

To me it seems like people enjoyed Baldur's Gate because it was technically impressive, and because "OMG I can play a DnD campaign on my computer, that's amazing!"

Ironically, when the focus is shifted away from the talking aspect and the "deep story" (which IMO is impossible to get across using the call-and-response dialogue system of the infinity engine and most other RPGs) and is shifted more towards dungeon crawling and combat, the DnD ruleset gets really good. It's why Icewind Dale is, to this day, hands down the best Infinity Engine game in my opinion. None of the "walking through the wilderness to get to the next town" crap, no randomly-generated critters, really good combat, and the story is surprisingly decent for what is, at the end of the day, a dungeon crawl. I would say Planescape Torment has the best story of any Infinity Engine game, but the gameplay is so horrendously bad that the game is virtually unplayable, which is why I still think IWD (and BG1 and 2) are better games than it. I know that's a heretical idea on these forums, but it's correct, so I don't care what other people think.

Playing DnD for the story is like watching porn for the story. It was never designed to be used like that and you're going to have a bad experience. Even now, decades after the focus of most players shifted from dungeon crawling to storytelling, 5E has still focused the vast majority of it's mechanics around combat, traps, and environmental hazards (the sort of things you'd find in a dungeon) and has virtually nothing gameplay-wise for dealing with social interaction, outside of the occasional persuasion/intimidation/insight/deception check.

Is it POSSIBLE to have a good story in a DnD based game? Yeah. Planescape does it, to the absolute detriment of it's gameplay. It's just a shame Baldur's Gate has major issues with it's story that make it mostly mediocre, and the terrible pacing and wilderness wandering slows the already lackluster story to a crawl.
 
Last edited:

sosmoflux

Educated
Joined
Apr 16, 2022
Messages
339
I'm not surprised you have bad taste in writing considering how long it takes you to make a single coherent point.
 

DeepOcean

Arcane
Joined
Nov 8, 2012
Messages
7,404
I just discovered the project lead of Thief Gold and 2, Steve Pearshall, is now some IT guy in a law firm today, so yeah guys, gaming is dead, good night. Also, I read some people claiming Arkane was full of ex Looking Glass developers, nigga... Randy Smith got from leading Thief Deadly Shadows at Ion Storm to have a special thanks for having helped on a game called Boyfriend Dungeon as his last activity and yes, the title is exactly what you are expecting. That furniture abandoned on my basement saw more activity than the curriculum of most developers from Looking Glass on the last 10 years. The only one that got somewhere was Ken Levine on his grifting skills.

The only two Looking Glass people that actually worked for reals on Arkane was Terri Brosius (AKA, the voice of SHODAN) on Dishonored 1 as a writer and some minor voice acting on 2 and Randy Smith that worked on Dark Messiah, that was it. I also read on reddit people claiming Harvey Smith worked on the Looking Glass Studios, I promess I desired to force choke some bitches through my computer so hard.

Do you want to be even more depressed? Guess who is the lead level Architect in Redfall? Was Michael Hutchison, basically the artist that worked on Gabriel Knight: Sins of the Fathers, not only the remake, the remake and the original. Yes, everything will end on shit and madness.
 
Last edited:

Zboj Lamignat

Arcane
Joined
Feb 15, 2012
Messages
5,708
To me it seems like people enjoyed Baldur's Gate because it was technically impressive, and because "OMG I can play a DnD campaign on my computer, that's amazing!"
Look at literally any BG retrospection and see how many mention it being "technically impressive" versus "great story, characters, we love minsc, and x was a memorable villain and hurrr and durrr".
 

Tyranicon

A Memory of Eternity
Developer
Joined
Oct 7, 2019
Messages
7,414
I just discovered the project lead of Thief Gold and 2, Steve Pearshall, is now some IT guy in a law firm today

Honestly the best ending. Probably getting paid big bucks, high quality of life and some nice privacy.

I don't know why anybody would get into the games industry, much less an AAA studio. An entire industry absolutely devoid of soul and ambition, just like movies or TV now.

Media is dead. Maybe some small independents will surprise us from time to time, but I wouldn't hold my breath.
 

kangaxx

Arbiter
Joined
Jan 26, 2020
Messages
1,592
Location
atop a flaming horse
You people need to relax. Redfall is just one other turd cruising along the sewage that is the game industry.
The man has a point. When a playable game comes out it's an event these days. The last game I actually played all the way through and enjoyed was a small budget fishing horror game... that's where we are as gamers.
 

sosmoflux

Educated
Joined
Apr 16, 2022
Messages
339
Media is dead. Maybe some small independents will surprise us from time to time, but I wouldn't hold my breath.
Everyone's finally waking up to the clown show that is western AAA game development. It's crashing right before our very eyes. This is what we've wanted for a long time.

Next comes the shakeout. Back to games made by 25 people not 500 people. Then can come the healing.

Indie will ride the wave for a few years, but I suspect good times are on the way soon.

In the mean time, plenty of Japanese games and older games to be playing.
 

Feyd Rautha

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Apr 17, 2009
Messages
2,057
Location
Nestled atop the cliffs
Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag. Pathfinder: Wrath


Do we have any examples of people who praised Redfall in the preview and then roasted it in the review nine days later?

e:
Here's IGN with a positive preview:


and then a week later their reviewer calls the game bad:



What's up with that? And can we find an example where the previewer and the reviewer is the same person?
 

Dexter

Arcane
Joined
Mar 31, 2011
Messages
15,655
The man has a point. When a playable game comes out it's an event these days. The last game I actually played all the way through and enjoyed was a small budget fishing horror game... that's where we are as gamers.
Thankfully you have basically the entire history of gaming to go back to/on. If I never bought another game on Steam I would probably still have enough interesting stuff for at least decades if not the rest of my life. Other than that I can just repeat what I said in the Monkey Island thread. Stop looking at has-been's and 50+ year old geriatrics on their way out for something exciting and new. They've had their time to shine when they were young. You're not going to get their magnum opus right before their pension. Regarding Arkane, it was pretty obvious that they were a lost cause similar to BioWare or Obsidian in like 2017/18 if you paid attention, but for some reason some are always slow to notice and can't see a rotting corpse before it stops twitching, and then it somehow always comes as a surprise. If you don't expect anything from them, they can't disappoint you and there are plenty of young upstarts and smaller developers trying to make it even now. Stuff like Atomic Heart, Urban Strife, the STASIS sequel and surprise hits like Kingdom Come or titles coming out of left field like this thing or random Korean/Japanese games seem a lot more interesting and hold more potential than whatever some dev carcass owned by a MegaCorp bearing the name "Obsidian" or "Arkane" could possibly come up with nowadays.
 
Last edited:

Roguey

Codex Staff
Staff Member
Sawyerite
Joined
May 29, 2010
Messages
36,525
Name a single BioWare game with good writing

(if you say Mass Effect or KOTOR I am going to laugh at you)

Going by their reception by game journalists and their core audience of roughly 2 million, just about all of them.

What entertains people and what's "good" doesn't necessarily overlap. Harry Potter is trash, but it entertained a ton of people, thus it is considered good.
 

RobotSquirrel

Arcane
Developer
Joined
Aug 9, 2020
Messages
2,061
Location
Adelaide
Why were the previews so positive?
Eq-5v-Q8-XEAUTU8-U.jpg%22 alt=%22Eq-5v-Q8-XEAUTU8-U

hmm I wonder
 

As an Amazon Associate, rpgcodex.net earns from qualifying purchases.
Back
Top Bottom