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Redfall - open world vampire slaying co-op FPS from Arkane Austin

Joined
Jan 7, 2012
Messages
14,959
Redfall WAS going to feature microtransactions, for starters.
Fucking Bethesda. Guess we know how Gamepass will be monetised from Bethesda going forward.
This shit right here is 29.99 US dollars (on all platforms):

Redfall_Steam-biteback_616x400-01.jpg


Two new characters, four outfits, and two weapon skins. That's it.

Things like this make me wonder. If they are selling access to future DLC and the game completely bombs, what would be the ramifications if they decide the DLC isn't worth making and the people who bought this get nothing?
 

Late Bloomer

Scholar
Joined
Apr 7, 2022
Messages
3,504
Things like this make me wonder. If they are selling access to future DLC and the game completely bombs, what would be the ramifications if they decide the DLC isn't worth making and the people who bought this get nothing?

They just downsize the team that was working on the dlc and push out some dried up turd to be able to say they released the DLC.
 

Pika-Cthulhu

Arcane
Joined
Apr 16, 2007
Messages
7,992
Things like this make me wonder. If they are selling access to future DLC and the game completely bombs, what would be the ramifications if they decide the DLC isn't worth making and the people who bought this get nothing?

They just downsize the team that was working on the dlc and push out some dried up turd to be able to say they released the DLC.
So basically what they did for the full game
 
Joined
Jan 5, 2021
Messages
502
Is this going to inspire other devs to do better? Or is that just something said by the butthurt?
Other devs are already making plenty of money selling broken garbage, why should they change?

In my opinion, in many ways Redfall is worse than a lot of other AAA releases in terms of how utterly broken it is, especially at launch, however it's not a night and day difference like most normies seem to be implying by how much they complain about this one game specifically. I get it, it's broken, but it's not THAT much more broken than, say, Anthem, which was bricking people's consoles. People say things like "The AI doesn't work" but most games released nowadays already have braindead AI even when it works, and generally being a underperforming, crashy mess is standard fare for Bethesda especially.

Bethesda games especially do VERY well despite being some of the most broken games on release nowadays.

There's a phenomenon I like to call "the bottling effect". Basically the way it works is, people endlessly get shit on over and over and over again by garbage AAA releases, and instead of abandoning AAA games entirely, they bottle up their feelings. "The game has some problems but it's not too bad" they say to themselves while playing the newest Call of Duty or whatever. Then one game comes out that's somewhat worse than the others but not significantly worse, or is actually better in some ways but has some glaring technical problem, and everyone just explodes on it. It suddenly becomes THE WORST GAME EVER, despite not being that much worse than what they're already playing on a daily basis. Any major or minor failing by that game is a cardinal sin, even if the same issues are present in other games and are considered not worth complaining about.

Fallout 76 is a good example. The game was worse than your average AAA game, so I understand people complaining about it, but people were saying things like "wow, now Bethesda put in the ATOM SHOP! How egregious!" and then they go right back to some other microtransaction-filled mess of a game. Some games get a free pass on things, others don't.

This of course also happens in reverse too. When a game is generally good, people overlook glaring issues that would be a dealbreaker in other games. Dark Souls has mindless AI that's easily cheesable, a horrible user interface, awful balance, and a lot of aspects of it's gameplay that are literally broken? Who cares, the game's decent.
 

RobotSquirrel

Arcane
Developer
Joined
Aug 9, 2020
Messages
2,062
Location
Adelaide
Oh, Jesus Christ, man, I'm sorry. Look, I know we're a rowdy bunch, but we're here for you if you ever wanna talk.
it was really surprising to me how strict Microsoft were about the Zune (the ZuneHD had just come out and was our lead device we could barely get Zune running the work we did), they expected highest possible quality from their 3rd parties but then when it came to their own 1st party stuff it had bugs and barely worked, rules for thee but not for me. Wasn't even the worst projects we worked on. I do feel like Microsoft has always had quality problems on the games side of things you know Lionhead was a train-wreck of a studio, FASA also had major issues under Microsoft with the worst offender being Shadowrun, Ensemble was even having issues with AoEIII at the time, yeah late 2000s Microsoft was a problem, that was the turning point for me when I started to realise the industry was just kinda losing the plot a bit it was obvious Microsoft didn't have a good understanding of video games.

But I mean the take away is that a job is a job, you go home and work on things you care about and build up your skills. There's only so much porting house bs a person can tolerate and my real passion was always the PC so when I was at home I was constantly teaching myself to code, 3d model and improve my texturing skills. Its just how you deal with it. I was fortunate that the work I was doing was so different from the work I did at home that it prevented me burning out.
 
Joined
Feb 13, 2018
Messages
152
Is this going to inspire other devs to do better? Or is that just something said by the butthurt?
Other devs are already making plenty of money selling broken garbage, why should they change?

In my opinion, in many ways Redfall is worse than a lot of other AAA releases in terms of how utterly broken it is, especially at launch, however it's not a night and day difference like most normies seem to be implying by how much they complain about this one game specifically. I get it, it's broken, but it's not THAT much more broken than, say, Anthem, which was bricking people's consoles. People say things like "The AI doesn't work" but most games released nowadays already have braindead AI even when it works, and generally being a underperforming, crashy mess is standard fare for Bethesda especially.

Bethesda games especially do VERY well despite being some of the most broken games on release nowadays.

There's a phenomenon I like to call "the bottling effect". Basically the way it works is, people endlessly get shit on over and over and over again by garbage AAA releases, and instead of abandoning AAA games entirely, they bottle up their feelings. "The game has some problems but it's not too bad" they say to themselves while playing the newest Call of Duty or whatever. Then one game comes out that's somewhat worse than the others but not significantly worse, or is actually better in some ways but has some glaring technical problem, and everyone just explodes on it. It suddenly becomes THE WORST GAME EVER, despite not being that much worse than what they're already playing on a daily basis. Any major or minor failing by that game is a cardinal sin, even if the same issues are present in other games and are considered not worth complaining about.

Fallout 76 is a good example. The game was worse than your average AAA game, so I understand people complaining about it, but people were saying things like "wow, now Bethesda put in the ATOM SHOP! How egregious!" and then they go right back to some other microtransaction-filled mess of a game. Some games get a free pass on things, others don't.

This of course also happens in reverse too. When a game is generally good, people overlook glaring issues that would be a dealbreaker in other games. Dark Souls has mindless AI that's easily cheesable, a horrible user interface, awful balance, and a lot of aspects of it's gameplay that are literally broken? Who cares, the game's decent.
Normies are retarded, news at 11. In the event that developers do patch their game, these retards will be praising to high heavens, despite the fact that the mechanics of such game could be garbage. Normies cannot differentiate between understanding what constitutes good mechanics and technical quality. They patched No Man's Sky? Oh it's good now, they patched Cyberpunk 2077? Oh it's good now, they patched Andromeda? Oh it's good now. That's literally their critique of what constitutes a good game. Ask them about the mechanics of Ninja Gaiden: Black and you'll see an NPC face staring back at you.
 

Spacer's Nugget

Learned
Patron
Joined
Feb 23, 2021
Messages
442
Strap Yourselves In
AscendedFlames Technical issues aside:
No Man's Sky was improved by the expansions and added features.
Cyberpunk 2077 fails as an open-world sandbox game, but was always well received for what CD Projekt does best, like it or not.
Mass Effect: Andromeda is a mediocre game, still regarded as the worst entry in that series.

And say what you will about the "normie" crowd, but there's a reason most "live service" games die within a year, and some of the games you would refer to don't get DLCs.

You can't fix shit.
 
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Joined
Nov 23, 2017
Messages
4,530
The little I’ve seen of Redfall it’s gameplay problems are, and this is pretty fucking shocking, more severe than what I saw of Mass Effect: Andromeda. Redfall is such a mess it’s hard to tell what the original thinking behind the game even was.

The only way I can imagine them fixing Redfall is if they pull a Final Fantasy 14 and release a new game to replace Redfall that’s called Redfall. This thing seems like it needs all new AI for all enemies. Every boss seems like they need to be completely overhauled. It seems like it needs major rethinks of what they’re trying to do with everything.
 

Latelistener

Arcane
Joined
May 25, 2016
Messages
2,622
They should have done that before releasing this shit. They should have closed Arkane Austin and gave this game to another studio or just outright cancel it.

What was the purpose? No one going to buy this shit. They won't get their money back.
 

gaussgunner

Arcane
Joined
Jul 22, 2015
Messages
6,159
Location
ХУДШИЕ США

I found "their" twitter, it's just some 30yo tatted up art tart (no not a troon) who's a little butthurt that everyone doesn't love the shitshow she worked on, probably the second AAA game of her short career.

Hahaha, she was just promoted to Senior 2D Artist and she lists her profession as Game Developer, true to form. :lol:

This is all she wrote (replies disabled of course)
I did not anticipate my own peers, friends, or colleagues openly mocking and being gleeful of a difficult launch. Delighting in the failure of others, no matter how you feel towards a company, seems mean spirited. I feel sad, confused, and disappointed.

I try to keep things positive, I really do. But I am human, I have feelings. Seeing people I looked up to saying things like ‘They deserved this’ ‘Now their resumes are tainted lol’ ‘what fucking idiots’ etc have, truthfully, been the only things to bother me.
 

Nikanuur

Arbiter
Patron
Joined
Mar 1, 2021
Messages
1,697
Location
Ngranek
remember what Bethesda did to the original Prey devs
To add insult to injury, Bethesda made them work on Redfall (Roundhouse is basically Human Head).
Could you please specify what did you mean, because:

Human Head:
Chris Rhineheart
Paul MacArthur
Ben Gokey
Ted Halsted
Jim Sumwalt
Shane Gurno

Arkane today:
https://www.linkedin.com/company/arkane-studios/people/

0 of above-mentioned people found.

I mean, I am not trying to catch you red-handed or something; it's just that it would be nice to understand what's behind the disaster of the immorally-poorly designed Redfall. One of the most prominent theories is that there are almost none of the original people in today's Arkane.
 

Spacer's Nugget

Learned
Patron
Joined
Feb 23, 2021
Messages
442
Strap Yourselves In
Could you please specify what did you mean, because:

Human Head:
Chris Rhineheart
Paul MacArthur
Ben Gokey
Ted Halsted
Jim Sumwalt
Shane Gurno

Arkane today:
https://www.linkedin.com/company/arkane-studios/people/

0 of above-mentioned people found.

I mean, I am not trying to catch you red-handed or something; it's just that it would be nice to understand what's behind the disaster of the immorally-poorly designed Redfall. One of the most prominent theories is that there are almost none of the original people in today's Arkane.



The ones you've mentioned:
Chris Rhineheart: Creative Director on Redfall
Paul MacArthur: Technical Director on Redfall
Ben Gokey: General Manager on Redfall
Ted Halsted: Level Architech on Redfall
Jim Sumwalt: Art Director on Redfall
Shane Gurno: Weapons Artist on Redfall
 
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Spacer's Nugget

Learned
Patron
Joined
Feb 23, 2021
Messages
442
Strap Yourselves In
it's just that it would be nice to understand what's behind the disaster of the immorally-poorly designed Redfall.

Almost five years ago, before Deathloop (Lyon studio), Redfall (Austin studio), Wolfenstein: Youngblood (Lyon), and Fallout 76 (Austin):
During QuakeCon 2018, I asked Arkane lead designer Ricardo Bare if it’s likely we’ll see a return to something like The Crossing.

“Not literally The Crossing, but for sure some elements,” Bare explains. “Being able to incorporate more online sharing or multiplayer type stuff, we totally might do that. It’s interesting because, for a while, there was this push with a bunch of big publishers to force teams to include multiplayer modes. I feel this was super destructive because you end up with a team that’s made a really compelling single-player game, but they were forced to tack on this deathmatch mode or whatever.

You only have to look at games such as Spec Ops: The Line to see what Bare is referring to here.

It was super distracting and resource-draining to the team,” he continues. “And, as it turns out, it didn’t help some of those games anyway. But what I feel like is happening now is way different - it’s more community-oriented, it’s more about what gives your game legs, builds community, sharing, and things like that. Games are approaching that with lots of different models.”

Like a hidden plea for help note from a Chinese factory worker stuffed into a Teddy Bear, or something.

Edit:


Bethesda. Bethesda never changes.
 
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