Reject Modernity: Embrace Tradition

[FriendlyMerchant]

We don't need these rpgs with 50 different classes that offer nothing of any true distinction:
Sword Saint?
Bloodrager?
Cipher?
Chanter?

And then the classes that do have distinction like Bard tend to be mechanically the same as similar classes with the exception that they play an instrument. Also rogue is a stupid class. It doesn't belong in games.

We don't need these classes. I for one will be going back to the true class system. Either Fighting-Man, Magic-User, or Cleric. There is no need for anything else. This is also one of the reasons why Knights of the Chalice is the best D&D game (and rpg) released so far. It is closest to the true fundamentals in this sense.

At the end of the day all these classes are nothing but Fighting-Mans, Magic Users, and Clerics with a few extras gimmicks and we don't need them. They truly add nothing to any game. Anyone who disagrees is only admitting they're wrong.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

Cipher?

it was just another name for psionic specific to the setting which is an iconic archetype

psionic as a D&D class predates most classes other than the ones you find in OD&D

 

[FriendlyMerchant]

Cipher?

it was just another name for psionic specific to the setting which is an iconic archetype

psionic as a D&D class predates most classes other than the ones you find in OD&D

It takes a special type of goyim to reply to a rhetorical question.

 

[Higher Game]

Excessively creative sounding classes are cut from the same cloth as pro wrestling gimmicks.

 

[Bruma Hobo]

 

[LudensCogitet]

Can't remember where I read it, but I remember an account of an original D&D playing graybeard saying the thief class ruined the game, because _everyone_ was supposed to be doing the stuff thieves / rouges ended up doing: looking for traps, getting passed locked doors, looking for and collecting treasure, etc.

Adding the class, so the argument went, basically took all the adventuring and dungeon delving and made it a single character's job while leaving everyone else with some specific task to perform occasionally.

 

[BanEvader]

Either Fighting-Man, Magic-User, or Cleric. There is no need for anything else.

This is what Jews do. They come in, present an idea under the guise of improvement, all the while knowing it'll actually fuck shit up.
"You're eating too much you're getting obesse, fucking cow farts and global warming... stop eating meat, eat bugs instead"
"Those fucking kulaks are hogging all the resources, lets kill them and take over."
"No you don't need more classes in RPGs, less is more. Three is enough. More classes is modern, you need to embrace tradition"
I'm on to you Jew.

 

[FriendlyMerchant]

Ah yes. My favorite movie.

Either Fighting-Man, Magic-User, or Cleric. There is no need for anything else.

This is what Jews do. They come in, present an idea under the guise of improvement, all the while knowing it'll actually fuck shit up.
"You're eating too much you're getting obesse, fucking cow farts and global warming... stop eating meat, eat bugs instead"
"Those fucking kulaks are hogging all the resources, lets kill them and take over."
"No you don't need more classes in RPGs, less is more. Three is enough. More classes is modern, you need to embrace tradition"
I'm on to you Jew.

Cool it with the antisemitic remarks.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

Can't remember where I read it, but I remember an account of an original D&D playing graybeard saying the thief class ruined the game, because _everyone_ was supposed to be doing the stuff thieves / rouges ended up doing: looking for traps, getting passed locked doors, looking for and collecting treasure, etc.

Adding the class, so the argument went, basically took all the adventuring and dungeon delving and made it a single character's job while leaving everyone else with some specific task to perform occasionally.

Reminds me of an old quip that goes something like "Nobody fell off horses until the riding skill was introduced."

 

[Tavernking]

I only play Fighters and Wizards in DND games.

 

[Gangrelrumbler]

Clerics also seem superficial. First of all do we even need another kind of magic-user casting from a different spell list? If that's a good idea then we can keep creating more and more magic classes, each with a slightly different spells and equipment.

The other problem with the cleric is that it introduces an idea that your class is also your job. Fighter can be a knight, a bandit, a bored nobleman or whatever. At the same time while mage won't do as a knight he also can be a nobleman or a bandit or a bard etc. But if you want to be a priest you need to be this spellcasting crusader. At the same time if you want to cast healing spell you need to be a priest. Also every faction in the setting need to worship some god and goods need to be spell dispensers. Also I find it a bit silly that awesome divine powers granted by gods needs to be memorized and work very similarly to the magic wizards use.

 

[Zed Duke of Banville]

We don't need these classes. I for one will be going back to the true class system. Either Fighting-Man, Magic-User, or Cleric. There is no need for anything else. This is also one of the reasons why Knights of the Chalice is the best D&D game (and rpg) released so far. It is closest to the true fundamentals in this sense.

The very first D&D supplemental rulebook, Supplement I: Greyhawk in 1975, introduced the paladin and thief classes, followed by the monk and assassin classes detailed in Supplement II: Blackmoor and the druid class presented by Supplement III: Eldritch Wizardry. There evidently was demand for new character classes from the beginning of D&D, for better or worse.

it was just another name for psionic specific to the setting which is an iconic archetype

psionic as a D&D class predates most classes other than the ones you find in OD&D

Supplement III: Eldritch Wizardry introduced psionics into original D&D, and psionics remained present in the AD&D 1st edition core rulebooks, but the psionicist class did not exist until PHBR5 The Complete Psionics Handbook in 1991 (the Dark Sun campaign setting released the same year required use of this otherwise optional rulebook, since AD&D 2nd edition excluded psionics from the core rulebooks).

 

[Jasede]

The Elder Scrolls 7 - revolutionary new skill system, streamlined for your pleasure:

Fightan - melee combat
Thievan - ranged combat and stealth
Magickan - magic

 

[Humanophage]

Tank
DD - doesn't matter if it's magic user, rogue, elf, it's just fluff
Healbot/buff bot

1337

 

[MpuMngwana]

When it comes to fantasy RPGs with a class system I mostly agree, but I do think there should be a thief/rogue (a scouting/lockpicking/utility class, not the shitty "fighter but with light armor and faster" thing that pops up a lot). Mage and priest may also be fused into a single spellcasting class at game designer's discretion.

 

[Lim-Dûl]

Thief class should be dismantled and its abilities should be distributed to or among the remaining classes.

 

[Gregz]

Cipher?

it was just another name for psionic specific to the setting which is an iconic archetype

psionic as a D&D class predates most classes other than the ones you find in OD&D

Yet it still reeks and stinks up the entire setting.

Removing (or reducing the significance of) psionics in 2E was an attempt to patch a known mistake. Some idiot at GenCon won an argument with Gary and fucked it up permanently for the rest of us: "It's pretty well known among old school gamers that Gary Gygax long regretted the inclusion of psionics in AD&D."

Chad arcane mages have to study hard, sleep, acquire components, etc. vs. the incel "I just use my mind bro!". Psionics sucks and is decline af.

 

[Comte_II]

I only play as low intelligence fighters or Barbarians

Magic users are gay

 

[JarlFrank]

The introduction of the thief class resulted in LGS devs becoming inspired to create a game focused on the D&D thief experience - Thief: The Dark Project.

So ultimately, the thief class was a good addition.

 

[Butter]

Sawyer made rogue skills available to all classes, but then he forgot to remove the now pointless rogue class.

 

[FriendlyMerchant]

Thief class should be dismantled and its abilities should be distributed to or among the remaining classes.

Or perhaps emphasized by a character background or acquired from some in game training from an npc.

 

[Alex]

Can't remember where I read it, but I remember an account of an original D&D playing graybeard saying the thief class ruined the game, because _everyone_ was supposed to be doing the stuff thieves / rouges ended up doing: looking for traps, getting passed locked doors, looking for and collecting treasure, etc.

Adding the class, so the argument went, basically took all the adventuring and dungeon delving and made it a single character's job while leaving everyone else with some specific task to perform occasionally.

More than that, it gave the impression that this stuff should be a matter of just rolling dice, rather than looking for things in a specific way. Rather than saying "I look for secret passages", you should explain how and where you do that. Examining a wall for hollow noise can tell you that there is something behind it, but finding the way to move it can be hard. It could be a button on the wall itself, a torch that triggers a mechanism, a statue that has a lever hidden as an arm, etc.

Having a class that does this stuff is not necessarily incompatible with this. You could have the basic chances work as a safety net; even if the player doesn't think of doing something, the character still has a chance of doing so. But if this is not made clear in the game, people will think that trying to find the traps on your own rather than using the thief skill (especially if you don't have them) as cheating.

 

[Mr. Magniloquent]

I am sympathetic to this argument.

Rogues are an excellent candidate to be dissolved. Druids are just clerics with nature domains. Clerics and Sorcerers are just sponsored magicians. An Eldritch Knight or any other gish is just a dilettante fighter or mage, however you look at it. Paladin is a sponsored gish. I need not elaborate further.

The problem with theoretics is execution. Classless systems are theoretically superior, but few designers are up to the task. They need to have generalized skills and abilities, but a wide breadth of nuanced feats. They also shouldn't operate on the basis of levels. Every stat development or feat should have its own explicit EXP price to be bought individually.

This would be a nightmare for PnP, but is of no consequence for CRPGs. Its one more reason why CRPGs need to leave their tabletop legacies behind.

 

[gurugeorge]

Classes, pffft.

 

[Jedi Master Radek]

This feels like a speech Todd Howard made before cutting skills in Oblivion. Codex is truly declining.