Capcom Resident Evil 4 Remake - out now for PC/Playstation/Xbox

[Machocruz]

"...modernising the combat." The kind of things devs say when they want to say something but don't have anything to actually say

 

[Wunderbar]

They can't just cut out QTEs.

However bad they were, QTEs are still a big part of RE4's identity. First encounter with Krauser won't be the same without them.

 

[Viata]

It would be far better without them. Who the fuck wants QTEs?

 

[Cat Headed Eagle]

More QTs less QTEs

 

[DJOGamer PT]

Nah
Without QTE's there are plenty of levels and enemies (good ones at that) that would have to be thoroughly redesigned or even cut
Krauser is a good example (and I am talking about his last encounter), without QTE his battle would too harsh for your average player - you'd have to make him less agile and therefore less dangerous

I think redesigning the movement and controls of RE4 would be the best to remove QTE's, but with that change you end up having to remake the whole game - as the core of RE4 (and subsequently RE5) combat is built upon movement and controls

 

[Ash]

I will be brave enough to say it: RE4 is one of few games, if not the only, wherein they were at least acceptable, if not good. Personally I would not make a game absolutely laden with them, but I don't dislike RE4's implementation.

First it's important we distinguish which exact "QTE's" we're talking about. Those during gameplay aren't QTEs but contextual dodge inputs. Some may confuse them as QTEs because they use the same button prompts but they're not. The other type, the actual QTEs, are during cutscenes where normal player control is taken away.
The contextual dodge is somewhat respectable also, as a dedicated dodge (which is generally the better implementation in most cases) can be mastered and spammed all the time and therefore makes the player powerful in all situations - antithetical to horror. In RE4, many attacks simply cannot be dodged outside of clunky running away, which also ties into being unable to move while shooting. This is classic survival horror design. It also teaches the player the exact timing to dodge (with short timing windows) because visual prompts. This doesn't have to be a bad thing, as it for example means we can raise the stakes (damage can be set high in a frantic action game without being overly brutal - note player dies in 2-3 hits on professional).

Now back to the actual QTEs in cutscenes: How RE4 QTEs differ from other implementations:

1. They altered inputs for the same action. Sometimes a QTE would be two certain inputs, sometimes they would be two other, different inputs. Random determination. This ensures reflex challenge is always present, not mindless button mashing.
2. Inputs and prompts mirrored those seen during gameplay (the contextual dodging), creating a form of consistency and muscle memory to those inputs when not in cutscenes, even if this is hardly notable.
3. They were actually challenging reflex tests, with short timing windows (shorter the higher the difficulty level chosen). No other game had challenging QTEs, except perhaps Fahrenheit: Indigo Prophecy, but that was the ONLY gameplay that "game" had, whereas RE4 has a genuine game there outside of the QTEs.
4. lots of variety to them, as well as lots of gruesome deaths to be seen that probably wouldn't be otherwise, which is cool in a horror-themed game.

I like the idea of merging cutscenes w/ gameplay. Why the fuck not? If we must have cutscenes that would otherwise rob player control, let's utilize the medium and make them interactive. but the key would be to do it in a valuable way, which almost every game in the mid-late 00s and thereafter did not.
I think a lot of the universal scorn QTEs got is because, in addition to all games doing them wrong except this one, is also the very noticeable & steep overall decline in that era; a lot of the times the QTEs were outright replacing real gameplay instead of just being a gimmick to compliment cutscenes like in RE4.

 

[Zombra]

Eh, the QTEs in RE4 sucked. After a few hours establishing a particular kind of gameplay, suddenly and without warning this punishingly hard QTE appears and you die immediately. This was not a refreshing break from the excellent run 'n' gun and exploration adventure, but a sudden slap in the face with no buildup. Leon has been developing his instincts for dealing with an unusual situation that has turned life-threatening, and emerged as competent to face it; then, just when we're starting to feel comfortable with the game's central challenges, we have to watch him die stupidly 3 or 4 times in a row before we even understand what the fuck is even going on. It's a precursor to the awful gear-changing pacing in RE6: "Oh I hope you instantly figure out the driving controls for this 90MPH car we just put you in! Nope, you blew up! Nope, you blew up again! Nope, you blew up again! Did you learn it yet? Nope, you blew up again!" There's a difference between a good jump scare and a crappy gameplay gotcha. For QTEs to be at all decent in gameplay there need to be more of them so the player can actually become skillful in dealing with them. Not an arbitrarily lethal surprise every 6 hours that the game doesn't prepare you for at all.

 

[Ash]

Cuck. It's hardly a slap in the face when the game is sure to save before each such cutscene and you can even skip the cutscene right to the part (<5 seconds) where the QTE happens, always.
In addition to that, there ARE a lot of them. So you are in fact trained to be on alert at all times.
Bringing up RE6 doesn't help anything. Game is shit. RE4 good. And it wouldn't be the same game most of us love without them, as others have said.

 

[Ezekiel]

"punishingly hard QTE"

Didn't know so many of you have crappy reaction speed. Guess it makes sense. Most of you are over forty.

 

[JDR13]

Not sure how good this is going to be, but at least it looks better than the Dead Space remake by a country mile.

 

[†††]

"punishingly hard QTE"

Didn't know so many of you have crappy reaction speed. Guess it makes sense. Most of you are over forty.

They like playing TB rpgs for a reason

 

[Viata]

Press X to continue watching the cut-scene.

 

[GrafvonMoltke]

Does it suck yet?

 

[Tehdagah]

QTEs are literally reflexes mini-games.

 

[Cross]

I like the idea of merging cutscenes w/ gameplay. Why the fuck not? If we must have cutscenes that would otherwise rob player control, let's utilize the medium and make them interactive.

The entire point that you seem to be missing is that the only reason why falling boulders and such have dedicated cutscenes is precisely so they could add QTE's. There's no reason for any of those things to be QTE's, when they can be handled through regular gameplay in a much more engaging and fun way.

 

[Valestein]

Does it suck yet?

Only if the Ada segments are bad. If they botch my waifu up then it's 0/10 review.

 

[Ash]

I like the idea of merging cutscenes w/ gameplay. Why the fuck not? If we must have cutscenes that would otherwise rob player control, let's utilize the medium and make them interactive.

The entire point that you seem to be missing is that the only reason why falling boulders and such have dedicated cutscenes is precisely so they could add QTE's. There's no reason for any of those things to be QTE's, when they can be handled through regular gameplay in a much more engaging and fun way.

Please do not insult my intelligence. Of course I'm for making "real" gameplay as much as possible.

1. First, the boulder is low-hanging fruit, as it is everyone's most-hated example. Yes this instance could have likely been handled better, as a part of normal gameplay. But let's look to other examples: salazar presses the trapdoor button, press x to not die with your grappling hook you've apparently had all this time. How can we do this under normal gameplay? We can't without introducing a grappling hook as an actual gameplay feature, which of course would have a significant impact on the direction of the game, and not every game should have a grappling hook. This or we teach the player how to use this, while they're falling/pause the game and bring up a tutorial on how to use the hook. Then after this it is never seen again.
As this shows, not everything necessarily can or should simply be handled by normal gameplay. Much like the contextual dodging has justification - to inject fun reflexive action on top of a semi-survival horror base (no dedicated dodging, tank controls, can't move while aiming).
2. Again, the game is gonna have cutscenes. The vast majority of games do since the 90s. It's admirable to attempt to make them interactive, be it via dialogue choices (RPGs) or even QTEs. It's all in the implementation. Most games just do it wrong and also just use them to substitute real gameplay, and RE4 isn't one of them.
3. It's part action game with lots of action packed-cutscenes. Cutting away from the scene to involve the player in the action for one or two elaborate maneuvers that often break the conventions of the normal gameplay then going back to the scene would be quite the feat to pull off, as it has high probability to damage the pacing of the scene and could easily require teaching the player new mechanics that will just be used for this one event, then never again (see grappling hook example again).
4. When you say this, and I agree in the case of the boulder do not misunderstand, you say this as if RE4 doesn't have TONS of normal gameplay. As I've said elsewhere, one of RE4's strongest traits is its sheer amount of gameplay diversity that almost all utiizes the core gameplay mechanics. riding mine carts, shooting ranges with prizes, playing with the garbage disposal claw and dumping dudes, ridiculous amount of boss battles each with a gimmick, avoiding trip mines and various other traps, defending ashley while she turns cranks and you can't get in close - long range weapons only, basic puzzle segments (removing wood from the gears in the drawbridge tower, aligning mirrors to open a door), ...every room is either a twist on the gameplay in some form or introduces a fun interactive gimmick. It is not in any NEED of further integration to the core game. That RE4 also has gameplay during its cutscenes (basic as it is) is a cherry on the top of its magnificence. The boulder is one of few examples where the devs arguably should have made it a part of the core gameplay.

 

[Zombra]

As I've said elsewhere, one of RE4's strongest traits is its sheer amount of gameplay diversity that almost all utiizes the core gameplay mechanics. riding mine carts, shooting ranges with prizes, playing with the garbage disposal claw and dumping dudes, ridiculous amount of boss battles each with a gimmick, avoiding trip mines and various other traps, defending ashley while she turns cranks and you can't get in close - long range weapons only, basic puzzle segments (removing wood from the gears in the drawbridge tower, aligning mirrors to open a door), ...every room is either a twist on the gameplay in some form or introduces a fun interactive gimmick. It is not in any NEED of further integration to the core game. That RE4 also has gameplay during its cutscenes (basic as it is) is a cherry on the top of its magnificence. The boulder is one of few examples where the devs arguably should have made it a part of the core gameplay.

Something to consider: why are there so many complaints about QTEs but you never hear complaints about puzzle segments or the claw game?

 

[Ash]

I already explained.

Because "real" gameplay is better than QTE, of course. QTE is a supplement to the cutscenes, something to make cutscenes interactive. It's that or watch leon do all the cool shit with zero involvement from the player. They succeeded in making them worthwhile. The one and only game to have done so. (Well, and RE5's few are OK also).

Because QTEs are universally hated and understandably so since they replaced real gameplay and were implemented in terrible fashion. This is not the case in RE4, but people struggle to distinguish any difference.

Because cuck gamers are faggots that don't know a damn thing. Yesterday I found a discussion (not here) from 13 years ago wherein Bethesda announced the removal of weapon degradation in the soon to be released Skyrim. The vast majority of responses were "who the fuck cares it was annoying anyway?". Skyrim and GTAV are the perfect ultimate retard games for the retard gamers.
It must look funny my saying this while simultaneously defending QTEs, but I am not wrong; making cutscenes more interactive/games more about the game is a noble goal in concept & potentially in practice, with good execution. Dialogue choices are an example of interactive cutscenes, when used in cutscenes. The implementation doesn't have to be QTE, but QTE is certainly valid as it stands in RE4.

Something nobody complains about is Alpha Brotocol's Quick Time Conversations, in fact they praise it. Let's not appeal to popularity. though that is one that definitely comes with downsides as you do not have time to consider your answers or deduce any nuance. Still cool and noble attempt to gamify, innovate, and keep the conversation flowing though.

 

[Daedalos]

Ash polluting the thread with pure unfiltered autism yet again.

Can't wait for this to release. 2023 survival horror baby! Dead space remake was nothing short of top notch amazing.

I'm ready.

 

[Cross]

First, the boulder is low-hanging fruit

Not at all. Most QTE's in RE4 involve either moving away from things, dodging things or even just stabbing things with your knife, i.e. things that could easily be handled through gameplay.

It isn't that big of a deal since they're a minor part of the game and RE4 is still fun, but replacing what should be gameplay with cutscenes/QTE's is simply poor design. It's certainly not something to be praised as the pinnacle of game design, as you seem to be doing.

But let's look to other examples: salazar presses the trapdoor button, press x to not die with your grappling hook you've apparently had all this time. How can we do this under normal gameplay? We can't without introducing a grappling hook as an actual gameplay feature, which of course would have a significant impact on the direction of the game, and not every game should have a grappling hook. This or we teach the player how to use this, while they're falling/pause the game and bring up a tutorial on how to use the hook. Then after this it is never seen again.

Is this your idea of fun? A cutscene, but with the added annoyance of having to mash some random buttons in the middle of it? As you point out, the player doesn't even know Leon has a grappling hook before he pulls it out of his ass. All you're doing is mindlessly reacting to some flashing button prompts.

Again, the game is gonna have cutscenes. The vast majority of games do since the 90s.

Not really. Most games from the 90's and early 2000's had cutscenes mainly for things like level transitions/mission briefings and for the intro and ending. Cutscenes in the middle of gameplay weren't as common back then. And even if they were, that still doesn't justify QTE's as some sort of necessary evil.

It's admirable to attempt to make them interactive, be it via dialogue choices (RPGs) or even QTEs.

False analogy. Dialogue choices and text parsers are mechanics that have been used in adventure games and RPGs since their inception. Unlike QTE's, they weren't implemented for the purpose of sprucing up cutscenes.

 

[Viata]

mainly for things like level transitions/mission briefings and for the intro and ending.

Only allowed kind of cut-scenes.
Anything else sucks. I don't give a shit if someone's favorite game "implemented cut-scene well" if it doesn't satisfy that quote.

 

[fork]

It would be far better without them. Who the fuck wants QTEs?

Less bad.
RE4 is unsalvageable, everything about it is shit, it's the epitome of decline; absolutely linear, QTEs, enemies dropping loot in a survival horror, 'collectables', from simple yet effective inventory management to inventory tetris, a fucking vendor, popularised the abysmal OTS perspective...
The most overrated game in existence, and one that has had the worst, long lasting impact on the gaming industry which we're still suffering from today.

 

[JDR13]

Something to consider: why are there so many complaints about QTEs but you never hear complaints about puzzle segments or the claw game?

Remind me again, what was the claw game?

 

[Zombra]

Remind me again, what was the claw game?