Return To Monkey Island - MI2 sequel from Ron Gilbert

[jfrisby]

Maybe if Ron just really cranked up the #0000AA it would feel right.

 

[bertram_tung]

Ron has always been such a phoney. For years, he said he had an ultimate vision for MI3. This way he could act like his version would have been so much better, without actually doing anything of value. Now when he gets criticism he said he had no plan all along.

From his latest butthurt blog post:

None of these are promises or anything I owe anybody.

People talk a lot about Monkey Island 3a as if it was the game I would have made after Monkey Island 2 had I stayed at Lucasfilm.

Here's the deal.

The totality of that idea was "Guybrush chases the demon pirate LeChuck to hell and Stan is there." That's it. That's all it was.

From the depths of the Mojo archives, several years back (not sure of exact date):

Do you think a Monkey Island game would work in an episodic format? Not that we’re being hopeful or anything…


Yes, I think they would. A few years ago I contacted LucasArts about doing a episodic MI3 (Monkey Island 3: The Secret Revealed or Your Money Back). They were interested and we had several months of discussions, but they it just ended. I never knew why. I'd jump at the chance if it came up again. I had a very cool story planned out.

He just says whatever he can to appear like the smartest guy in the room in the moment.

 

[Boleskine]

This post from Adventure Gamers belongs on the Codex. It's probably the best explanation for why Ron's attitude and response really miss the point. And again, I say that as someone who doesn't mind the art and thinks some of the reactions are overblown.

At this point Ron should crawl into a hole and not tweet or post on his blog until the game is done and released. It'd be a shame for him to lose support of some long time "hardcore" MI fans, yet on the other hand Ron doesn't seem to mind losing them.

Urgh, Ron retweeted this image on his Twitter page (in support of it)...

Literally nobody is trying to stop people from liking the art style, much less shouting at them and telling them that they’re wrong for liking the art style and that they shouldn’t play the game. Whilst there were a few idiots on Ron’s blog who were being unnecessarily rude about the art style and disrespectful towards Ron, by and large the criticism has come from people merely respectfully expressing their own personal opinion and their own personal distaste for the art style. If anything, it’s obnoxious images like the ones above which are an attempt to silence other’s right to an opinion, not the other way around!

Also, gotta love the way they went that extra mile to insult people with differing views, by depicting those in possession of critical faculties as a stereotypical fedora wearing nerd as well. Oh, and the way they depicted themselves as completely unbothered by the shouting lunatic. So unbothered in fact, that they took the time to make an image to complain about the very people they claim not to be bothered by.

It’s just a variation on this tired, old, god awful meme…

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(SIDENOTE: which of these two looks like the imposing bully within this strip?)

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I can’t stand the whole “let people enjoy things” attitude. It’s so damn egocentric.

“Well, I like the art, so everyone else has to like it too, or just shut up if you don’t because my ego can’t handle hearing critical thoughts about something which I personally like! It’s as though they are being critical of me for liking the art style, even though that’s not what anybody has said, it’s like that because the world revolves around me and my massive, inflated ego. Just let me enjoy the art and stop having your own opinions about it… unless those opinions align with my own, in which case that’s fine.”

It’s also interesting to note that the same hypocrites who post the above “shhh” meme NEVER, EVER have a problem with being critical of something which they don’t like, or allowing others to be critical of something which they don’t like. Funny that, ain’t it? It’s almost as though they don’t actually practice what they preach and it’s got nothing to do with “letting people enjoy nice things” but in fact everything to do with “letting me control the voice and opinions of others, to reflect my own world view and tastes”.

Furthermore, the image which Ron retweeted is operating under a fallacy which I’m sick of hearing right now; that people who voiced critical opinions towards the art style just wanted pixel art because they’re stuck in the past and refuse to embrace new technology. I’ve literally not read a single comment from anyone saying that their problem with the art style is that it’s not pixel art. What I have read is people saying that they don’t care for the specific art style being utilised within the game and that it looks cheap. It’s such a strawman argument to try and project made up reasons onto someone else as to why they don’t care for a particular style of art. It’s insulting and condescending, not to mention a deflection from the actual criticisms being made.

For the record, I am among those who was critical of the art style upon first glimpsing it and I remain unconvinced that it’ll work for me personally in the final game, though I remain hopeful. However, I have also made an absolute point of making it clear, from day one, that I respect that this is Ron’s game and that I 100% respect his right to make it as he sees fit, art style and all. Apparently that’s not allowed though and everyone needs to either praise the art unequivocally or shut up and not say anything at all. What kind of BS attitude is that?! It’s like some kind of media dictatorship, that’s what!

Instead of a one sided, self-serving “Shhh, let people enjoy things” meme, how about an inclusive, neutral and all encompassing “You’re entitled to your opinion of art and I’m entitled to mine. Let’s discuss and debate the merits of the piece as grown, mature adults, without trying to shame each other for not sharing our own personal tastes” meme instead? No, I guess that’s not catchy or divisive enough. Gotta draw those lines in the sand, put everyone into boxes and make everything into a petty schoolyard battleground. I despair sometimes, I really do.

 

[Rincewind]

At this point Ron should crawl into a hole and not tweet or post on his blog until the game is done and released. It'd be a shame for him to lose support of some long time "hardcore" MI fans, yet on the other hand Ron doesn't seem to mind losing them.

Yeah, and even though I despise the art, in general I think creators should just do whatever the hell they want to do. This quote from a David Lynch interview pretty much sums it up:

When I ask Lynch if this kind of thing stings, he says he tends not to read reviews. “The good ones aren’t good enough, and the bad ones will depress you.”

I can certainly empathise with that.

 

[OndrejSc]

At this point Ron should crawl into a hole and not tweet or post on his blog until the game is done and released. It'd be a shame for him to lose support of some long time "hardcore" MI fans, yet on the other hand Ron doesn't seem to mind losing them.

Yeah, and even though I despise the art, in general I think creators should just do whatever the hell they want to do. This quote from a David Lynch interview pretty much sums it up:

When I ask Lynch if this kind of thing stings, he says he tends not to read reviews. “The good ones aren’t good enough, and the bad ones will depress you.”

I can certainly empathise with that.

And even better is not to release any art.

 

[Great Deceiver]

I gotta say, it's pretty hilarious to see people acting surprised at any of this shit. About a month ago I posted that Ron is a pozzed shill whose brain was melted by massive doses of sjw garbage juice, and would deflect any criticism with Disney-style "toxic" fan blaming - although back then I was referring to the content and not specifically about the art. That got a lot of citation needed ratings, shit ratings, etc. It's like people don't understand or don't want to accept what has happened to game development in general, including (and perhaps especially) old legends.

If he's screeching this hard about the art, imagine the extent of self-policing he's doing regarding the writing. Not to mention endless external interference by whatever DIE overlord they have hanging over the project at Disney itself.

 

[Don Salieri]

And we are in 100% agreement that CGA is an abomination.

You've not played Monkey Island unless you've done the CGA version with PC speaker sound and you've got no class at all if you can't appreciate it.

Why would anyone smear their monitor with vaseline? Hey, you gonna put it up your ass or something?

 

[OndrejSc]

 

[OndrejSc]

Loom is kind of cheating since in its EGA mode its basically the best looking 2D adventure game ever made)

I see that retardation on codex is reaching new never seen before levels.
Not that i'm surprised of course.

After an extensive as well as intensive research, I have to say I prefer EGA to VGA in MI1. I would even consider supporting an MI2 EGA project. Notice how they skipped every other alphabet letter: We had AGA (but no BGA), CGA (but no DGA), EGA (but no FGA)...

 

[Great Deceiver]

If anyone's looking to play MI1 again I'd recommend the FM-Towns version, as it's basically the PC-CD version (VGA with the redbook soundtrack) but with smooth scrolling.

And yeah, EGA is amazing. We had an EGA/dithering thread a few years ago on the Codex.

 

[SlamDunk]

It's funny that people ITT want to believe Ron Gilbert isn't pozzed to the max.

Return To Honkey Island

 

[Keshik]

Whole thing is a tempest in a teapot

 

[Spectacle]

Whole thing is a tempest in a teapot

More like a teapot half-full with tepid water.

 

[JarlFrank]

So all those years of "I always knew what the true Secret of Monkey Island is, and it would have been revealed in part 3!" were plain bullshitting?

Figures.

 

[OndrejSc]

The public secret of the Monkey Island is that Elaine has a ding-dong.

 

[Great Deceiver]

No one's rewriting history - you're just too much of a newfag to understand what the grownups are talking about. If you can't appreciate the truly great artistry that went on in figuring out the dithering solutions in the heyday of EGA art, that's on you. Limitations drive creativity.

 

[JarlFrank]

From a technical standpoint, EGA sucks. I much prefer VGA for its 256 colors, looks a lot more beautiful.

But there were some games where the artists really tried to do the best with what they had. Only 16 colors and half of them are shades of vomit? Alright boys, let's try to make it look good!
EGA Lucas Arts adventures were among those. The artists really tried, and they succeeded at creating atmospheric visuals that draw you into the mood of the game. Especially Loom was great at this.

It's an artistic achievement born out of passion for the medium, and a result of striving to make the limitations less visible - like using dithering to make it appear like there are more colors than there actually are.

 

[Viata]

Oscilloscope based graphics

This! Any EE knows how great oscilloscope based graphics are:

 

[Star Citizen]

Is this a Monkey Island thread or graphics thread?

 

[bertram_tung]

Yeah it was more fun when everyone was shitting on Ron. Even MRY got in on the action. Good stuff.

 

[Viata]

Is this a Monkey Island thread or graphics thread?

Both.

 

[Infinitron]

Seems likely IMO that after all the butthurt has passed, the devs will revisit the game's visual style and try for some sort of compromise. The fact that they haven't shown Guybrush yet suggests that it's still at an early enough stage.

 

[Great Deceiver]

Going by the interviews, the project started in 2019 (they managed to keep it secret) and it's in the wrapping-up stage. I find it extremely unlikely that there's going to be any revision of the artstyle.

 

[zapotec]

Seems likely IMO that after all the butthurt has passed, the devs will revisit the game's visual style and try for some sort of compromise. The fact that they haven't shown Guybrush yet suggests that it's still at an early enough stage.

 

[<3sRichardSimmons]

it's still at an early enough stage.

? It's supposed to be out before the end of the year. No way they're overhauling the art.