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Incline Revisiting Old Games (Again)

Falksi

Arcane
Joined
Feb 14, 2017
Messages
11,033
Location
Nottingham
Metal Slug X and 2 are my favorite in the series and games in general. They struck the right balance in enemy variety. Many think 3 is the best, but you're fighting too many non human enemies.

FF6 is all presentation. It's a big anime adventure with far too much combat, most of it extremely simplistic. I like the characters and lively mood, and the art and music are grand, but it id just as soon skim through a playthrough on Yubtub if I wanted to experience it.

I did enjoy X a fair amount, so I'm looking forward to 2 & 3.

Yup. I can see why folk enjoy FF6, but I much prefer my RPGs to be interactive & not so restrictive. It was probably a bit unlucky in that I played it coming off the back of Lufia 2, which was way more up my street.
 

Machocruz

Arcane
Joined
Jul 7, 2011
Messages
4,514
Location
Hyperborea
Metal Slug X and 2 are my favorite in the series and games in general. They struck the right balance in enemy variety. Many think 3 is the best, but you're fighting too many non human enemies.

FF6 is all presentation. It's a big anime adventure with far too much combat, most of it extremely simplistic. I like the characters and lively mood, and the art and music are grand, but it id just as soon skim through a playthrough on Yubtub if I wanted to experience it.

I did enjoy X a fair amount, so I'm looking forward to 2 & 3.

Yup. I can see why folk enjoy FF6, but I much prefer my RPGs to be interactive & not so restrictive. It was probably a bit unlucky in that I played it coming off the back of Lufia 2, which was way more up my street.
In case you didn't know, MS 2 and X are the same basic game with some changes and tweaks here and there. I already loved 2, so playing it again with differences presented no problem at all. Most probably think X is an improvement, but I play both every year.

I mean if there is a hard mode or roguelike romhack for ff6, let me know and I'm all over it. Everything that isn't combat or dungeoning is good.
 

Falksi

Arcane
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Feb 14, 2017
Messages
11,033
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Nottingham
Space Harrier - Arcade/32X

Vja5P4b.jpg


Now this was a popular arcade machine. In fact Space Harrier was pretty much in every arcade I stepped into back in the day. It's cabinet was something you simply had to jump on when in the gaff, and it swallowed many of my coin over the years. So how does this famous Spaceman (who never actually goes into space) hold up now?

If you like style you'll like this, if you demand substance, then you might not. Space Harrier's appeal is built on it's weirdness and fast pace. All kinds of bizarre & unique enemies come charging at you thick & fast, and the game always has you feeling like you're absorbing an eyeful of mentalness with each new section. A one eyed mamoth, skeleton dragons, giant mushrooms, big flashing balls etc. it's a real trip.

But when your senses settle and come to, you realise that it doesn't actually play that good. See, in the arcade version, Mr Harrier is always drawn back to the centre of the screen because of the cabinet requirements, and it translates to a very quirky style of control setup on emulation. Some will love it, some will hate it, myself I'm in the middle, but the weird "bounceyness" which comes with it was off-putting at times.

It's also more of a dodge-em up than a shoot em up, with the priority focus always on avoiding enemies, obstacles and enemy fire, than killing the enemies. In fact some bosses don't have to be killed, they just fly off after some time, which felt weird. Also, whilst there are some pretty funk & memorable bosses, said bosses are also recycled too much for my liking under different skins too.

And boom do you hit brick walls. I sailed through the first 4 stages to then lose about 5 lives in the space of 2 minutes. Bosh. There just seems to be some sections with way too high difficulty spikes, clearly designed to gobble your coinage.

It still has some magic though and is worth a blast, but for me it's more show than anything else, and it's clear that it's original appeal came from the combo of the action-cab & visual assault giving you a sensory attack.

:3/5:


However.......

Jumping to the 32X version and that seems significantly smoother. It slows the game down very slightly, and most importantly also ditches the centre-drawn bouncy controls for the more traditional 8-way direction controls found in Space Harrier 2. It makes it FAR more playable, more deliberate, and thus made it far more enjoyable all round for me. In fact it's surprising just how much of a difference that it makes. I'd give this version an extra troll easily. A far better balance of intensity & control all round.

:4/5:
 

Gamezor

Learned
Joined
May 14, 2020
Messages
308
Lufia 2 - Rise of the Sinstrels

lufiaii.png

^He saved everyone of us!

By far & away the biggest kicker going back to these oldies is playing the fondly remembered RPGs, only to find out they actually suck a bit now. Phantasy Star 4 & Chrono Trigger really guttered me, as I remember thriving on both, yet upon return they were both average at best. This one however has an even bigger task, as I've only ever played it once on emulation before, and my memories of it are pretty sparse, so no nostalgia to help it either. Modron recommended it, so here we go.

Well it grabbed me from the off. Nothing outstanding or mind-blowing, but everything about it is crafted SO well, that's it's just a joy to slip into. The town, the dungeon maps, the battles etc. It really is one of the easiest RPGs to get into which I've played in a long time, but it also gives you enough to get your teeth into too. The first dungeon alone displays a lovely balance between puzzles, simplicity, depth, combat & secrets - it's a perfect portion size. A few hours in and I was really enjoying myself.

And the combat is balanced absolutely superbly too, real masterclass here. You can enter a Dungeon under equipped and vulnerable, but because of the fact that battles aren't random & you can stun enemies with your arrows, you can still progress. On the flipside, there's plenty of in-dungeon secrets, and a big variety of spells & weapons, armour & items to buy from towns, so you've also the option of grinding a bit and entering the dungeons far more badass than before. Yet again, the balance with both is superb, vulnerable doesn't feel impossible and powerful doesn't feel OP. Great stuff.

Monsters are visible, but only move when you do. This leads to some really interesting scenarios, and is a great little system. Really surprising that this hasn't been copied much since. The puzzles are plentiful, and flit between having to make you think to trickily-clever, but rarely are they either pointless or frustrating. They mostly have a touch of uniqueness to them too, which again adds to the quality. In fact, I'm not one for puzzley dungeons, but this game does them & the dungeons SO well that I really enjoyed both. Top marks. But, as well done as they are, you also really need to be prepared to spend a lot of time dungeon crawling in general. It isn't for everyone, got a bit monotonous for me, and it really could have done with a few more roleplaying/exploration aspects to break it up.

Unfortunately there are other significant bugbears too. Firstly there's little to no secrets in the roleplaying areas, a particular bane of mine. Also, the main dungeon theme tune gets real old real fast, in fact I think the same track plays in every dungeon. Then you've got the game's structure. It really is town-dungeon-town-dungeon for a large portion of it, which soon becomes very repetitive. And finally you've got the story which, whilst not awful at all, isn't particularly exciting either and tends to feel like one random event after another, each of which has little or nothing to do with anything that happens before it or after it. It really did leave me disinterested at times, as the main story hook kept disappearing (similarly to how Witcher 3 has you hunt the Wild Hunt.......then have nothing to do with them for ages). And it is a 16-bit JRPG too, so be prepared for slightly obscure objectives.

I enjoyed this a lot, and think it's definitely worth playing, but be mindful that it's way more for gameplayfags than storyfags, and has enough bugbears to prevent it from being a classic.

:4/5:

These have all been awesome, thanks for doing these. Definitely inspired me to get and emulate some of these games--starting with Golden Axe. I bounced off Chrono Trigger and FF6 when I tried them out for the first time a few years ago, although I got a lot farther into Chrono Trigger before I tired of it. Maybe I'll give Lufia 2 a try.
 

Falksi

Arcane
Joined
Feb 14, 2017
Messages
11,033
Location
Nottingham
These have all been awesome, thanks for doing these. Definitely inspired me to get and emulate some of these games--starting with Golden Axe. I bounced off Chrono Trigger and FF6 when I tried them out for the first time a few years ago, although I got a lot farther into Chrono Trigger before I tired of it. Maybe I'll give Lufia 2 a try.

Glad you're enjoying them. One of my main purposes in returning to these games was to create a collection for myself which I'd return to, and be able to cut the wheat from the chaff. It's definitely been interesting seeing which games I would have had down as "must plays" before replaying them (Phantasy Star 4, Chrono Trigger etc.), but which have dated terribly. The era's definite strong point is that 20-60 min hi-octane blast. Some of the games are still untouchable by modern clones IMO, despite all the latter day innovations.

Yeah, give Lufia 2 a whirl. Out of all the console RPG's which I returned too, it's been one of the best so far (only surpassed by Shining Force 2 I think)
 

Falksi

Arcane
Joined
Feb 14, 2017
Messages
11,033
Location
Nottingham
The Secret of Monkey Island - PC

zg2WrTg.png

^Yes! Look how comical that daft bucket face & dummy's in the back look.


Needs no introduction, I've been trying to stick to the console stuff & saving the classic PC games for further down the line, but after the recent bumping of MI threads on here, I had a Three Headed Monkey itch to scratch, so popped this on to scratch it.

Magical. That's the word which for me encompasses the vibe of this lush game. How it manages to mix so much sillyness & humour, with such a grand sense of adventure & wonder is superb, whether you're swagging gut burning grog at the Scumm Barr, or friggin in the riggin, the game's humour & vibe make solving puzzles a pleasure. And that even extends to when they're frustrating, because even though you're getting nowhere it's still fun getting nowhere.

The puzzles themselves are mostly great. So many of them require a different approach, and come from an original angle, that this just keeps the whole game stupidly fresh throughout. Yeah there's some odd & obscure ones, but overall you're getting mostly quality.

And the dialogue is just fucking bang on too and what really makes the game. It gets SO much right. Something which it does particularly brilliantly is give you dialogue choices which encourage you to be a nob head. It's just great seeing the options & thinking "well, if I select that one it''ll probably get me further, but I'll say this other one instead just to be a bellend". Mint stuff. There's some genuine LOL moments, and some incredibly brilliantly playful writing all round.

But for me there's a definite dip with pacing in the middle act, and a bit too much space between dialogue interactions in the final part too. The 3 trials & Melee Island I absolutely loved, and the finale is fantastic, but getting to Monkey Island was a bit dull and not particularly funny when compared to the rest of the game. The lack of banter in this section, and on Monkey Island where there are fewer characters to talk to, do make it drag a tad.

It's an undoubted classic which I love, but I have to be honest & say that I'd happily skip a good 20-30% of it in that middle act of the game when it starts to drag too. I want to give it a 5 because of the connection I have with it, but if I'm being brutally honest I'd have to give it a 4 because of said dip.

Flawed brilliance.

:4/5:


Now let's talk about the Special Editions.

The SEs get SO much wrong it's scary. Firstly there's the awful interface which makes it way more awkward than the original, and some puzzles become really annoying to solve. It's incredible just how horribly cumbersome it makes the whole thing.

Secondly, it totally KILLS some of the humour dead. Various gags don't work half as well when spoken, and some of the visuals are COMPLETELY fucked up. Some examples:

  • When you fight Captain Smirk, the duelling dummy's have angled eyebrows, and thus evil looks on their faces. Not the daft, happy-fun faces in the original. Which totally kills the "hi! I'm about to get stabbed & I am happy about it!" vibe.
  • The parrot in the original is tiny, & looks totally none-threatening. In this it's far bigger, with a punk look, making it seem more aggressive. And that totally kills the "scared of a wimpy parrot" gag.
There's fuckloads more throughout, and it's an absolute butchery of the original game. Real amateur spastic stuff. The additions in the SE are a significant burden on the classic, and absolutely no way to experience the game at all.

:2/5:

NBOMWcS.jpg

^NO! Now look how fucking stupidly shit the same bucket & dummy's look in the SE. Absolutely no sense of stupidity or fun at all. Fucking wank.
 
Last edited:

Machocruz

Arcane
Joined
Jul 7, 2011
Messages
4,514
Location
Hyperborea
Most of these 3D graphics remakes are travesties. Almost always aesthetically moribund, and often tone death to the character, mood, and theme of the original.
 

lightbane

Arcane
Joined
Dec 27, 2008
Messages
10,559
Thank God they still kept the original graphics with a toggle, instead of forcing the NEXT-GEN (TM) ones.
 

Unkillable Cat

LEST WE FORGET
Patron
Joined
May 13, 2009
Messages
28,570
Codex 2014 Make the Codex Great Again! Grab the Codex by the pussy
Now where's that fan-patch that allows people to play the original MI-games with only the speech-files taken from the Special Editions?

*rummages around*
 

Neuromancer

Augur
Joined
Jun 10, 2018
Messages
1,238
Most of these 3D graphics remakes are travesties. Almost always aesthetically moribund, and often tone death to the character, mood, and theme of the original.
There are no 3D graphics in the Special Editions of Monkey Island.

They just used some really bad filters with the original graphics to extend them to higher resolutions and then painted them over with Photoshop.
Actually, in some rooms e.g. in the forest, you can see screen areas, where they forgot to "enhance" and the original pixels are still visible.

I think LucasArts outsourced the "enhancement" of the graphics to some place in Asia like Singapur.
 

sys0nar

Educated
Joined
Oct 19, 2020
Messages
72
Location
Australia
How about game developers stop re-making classics and actually make actual good fucking game, then maybe these kids will realize that there are finer things in life than Fortnite and Micro-transactions and bring in that revenue so developers won't have to live in their car and eat peanut butter sandwiches in order to make an actual fucking RPG.
 

lightbane

Arcane
Joined
Dec 27, 2008
Messages
10,559
How about game developers stop re-making classics and actually make actual good fucking game, then maybe these kids will realize that there are finer things in life than Fortnite and Micro-transactions and bring in that revenue so developers won't have to live in their car and eat peanut butter sandwiches in order to make an actual fucking RPG.

This will never happen as long as modern game devs are as bad as the meme below, if not worse:

3clqrigik1q11.png
 
Joined
May 19, 2018
Messages
415
How about game developers stop re-making classics and actually make actual good fucking game, then maybe these kids will realize that there are finer things in life than Fortnite and Micro-transactions and bring in that revenue so developers won't have to live in their car and eat peanut butter sandwiches in order to make an actual fucking RPG.

This will never happen as long as modern game devs are as bad as the meme below, if not worse:

3clqrigik1q11.png

Heh, I haven’t seen a decent one of these in a long time.

The Chad artisan: programs on a 2008 thinkpad he stole from an office. Lol
 

Falksi

Arcane
Joined
Feb 14, 2017
Messages
11,033
Location
Nottingham
Don't forget to grab Streets Of Kamurocho for free on Steam during the next 48 hours. It's a throwback homage to the Streets of Rage series.

https://store.steampowered.com/app/1368430/Streets_Of_Kamurocho/'


Also, Endless Zone. - https://store.steampowered.com/app/1368450/Endless_Zone/

What did you think to these mate?

I thought SOK was decent enough, but I'm no real Yakuza fan so personally I'd still sooner go back to the original SOR games. It didn't seem to have much in the way of innovation either.

Endless Zone just bored me. Did things well enough, but no real excitement to be had.
 

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