Revisiting VtM: Bloodlines

[Roguey]

There was basically only one critical map near the end of the game that openly broke the Masquerade and maybe they got people to stay indoors with some fake alarm. But the usage of firearms as shown in Bloodlines 2 means that every firefight that some other people notice is likely to break the Masquerade! My guess is that they just didn't have the time or resources to create proper weapon animations...

The Glaze club massacre is another plot-forced Masquerade breach, there's a news report about it and everything.

 

[Wesp5]

The Glaze club massacre is another plot-forced Masquerade breach, there's a news report about it and everything.

Yeah, but in that case all witnesses probably end up death anyway .

 

[Roguey]

The Glaze club massacre is another plot-forced Masquerade breach, there's a news report about it and everything.

Yeah, but in that case all witnesses probably end up death anyway .

Not according to Anchorman.

A shootout at a popular Chinatown underground club tonight left several dead and wounded after shots were exchanged between a local gang and an unidentified assailant. The club Glaze was a known hangout for one of Chinatown's largest street gangs, but it was also a popular hangout for local club kids. One witness stated that the lone assailant acted like quote something out of an action movie. I couldn't believe one person could do that end quote. Police suspect a rival gang may be behind tonight's violence.

 

[NecroLord]

The Glaze club massacre is another plot-forced Masquerade breach, there's a news report about it and everything.

Yeah, but in that case all witnesses probably end up death anyway .

Not according to Anchorman.

A shootout at a popular Chinatown underground club tonight left several dead and wounded after shots were exchanged between a local gang and an unidentified assailant. The club Glaze was a known hangout for one of Chinatown's largest street gangs, but it was also a popular hangout for local club kids. One witness stated that the lone assailant acted like quote something out of an action movie. I couldn't believe one person could do that end quote. Police suspect a rival gang may be behind tonight's violence.

That one's funnier if you are playing as a Malkavian.
Breaks the fourth wall.

 

[Vulpes]

There was basically only one critical map near the end of the game that openly broke the Masquerade and maybe they got people to stay indoors with some fake alarm. But the usage of firearms as shown in Bloodlines 2 means that every firefight that some other people notice is likely to break the Masquerade! My guess is that they just didn't have the time or resources to create proper weapon animations...

The Glaze club massacre is another plot-forced Masquerade breach, there's a news report about it and everything.

Can you piss off with these low IQ comments already? It's not like the game forces you to use your disciplines during that segment. "But what if you do end up use Celerity? Why doesn't the game punish you for it, huh? " Maybe because it would be extremely lame and gay for the developers to penalize you for using your combat abilities in a forced combat segment? Even so, what's the big deal? That club is one of Ming Xiao's fronts in her own territory and it's not like she's keen on revealing to the world that the undead walk among us.

 

[Roguey]

Can you piss off with these low IQ comments already? It's not like the game forces you to use your disciplines during that segment. "But what if you do end up use Celerity? Why doesn't the game punish you for it, huh? " Maybe because it would be extremely lame and gay for the developers to penalize you for using your combat abilities in a forced combat segment? Even so, what's the big deal? That club is one of Ming Xiao's fronts in her own territory and it's not like she's keen on revealing to the world that the undead walk among us.

That you are witnessed surviving is a masquerade breach. They don't ding you for it because that would be unfair and potentially result in a game over if you only had one left.

 

[NecroLord]

Can you piss off with these low IQ comments already? It's not like the game forces you to use your disciplines during that segment. "But what if you do end up use Celerity? Why doesn't the game punish you for it, huh? " Maybe because it would be extremely lame and gay for the developers to penalize you for using your combat abilities in a forced combat segment? Even so, what's the big deal? That club is one of Ming Xiao's fronts in her own territory and it's not like she's keen on revealing to the world that the undead walk among us.

That you are witnessed surviving is a masquerade breach. They don't ding you for it because that would be unfair and potentially result in a game over if you only had one left.

Doesn't really matter all that much unless you are a one hundred percent autistic Masquerade abiding Kindred (like me, he-he).
Most of the civies there would more than likely be categorized as traumatized or hallucinating if they decided to talk about what they saw and experienced there to the authorities.
Vulpes is right.
Ming-Xiao literally bankrolls the Tong and Johnny AND the Mandarin.
Wiping them out is necessary for the sake of the Masquerade.

 

[Roguey]

Most of the civies there would more than likely be categorized as traumatized or hallucinating if they decided to talk about what they saw and experienced there to the authorities.

This kind of thing is why it's not an immediate game over when you break the masquerade and you can build up redemption tokens through certain actions. It's still a breach though.

 

[Vulpes]

That you are witnessed surviving is a masquerade breach. They don't ding you for it because that would be unfair and potentially result in a game over if you only had one left.

You really are a low-functioning autist, aren't you? Surviving a gang shootout seems like a vampiric feat to you? Humanity, especially in the modern age, always defaults to trying to rationalize the unexplainable. If an average person in real life saw some guy biting another guy in the middle of the night, they wouldn't automatically assume that they just saw a vampire. No, they'd think they encountered a tweaked out meth head. Those that don't wouldn't be believed by even their friends and family. The Masquerade isn't about stopping every single sighting of a supernatural element, but about covering up enough information that general population doesn't start questioning things.

Doesn't really matter all that much unless you are a one hundred percent autistic Masquerade abiding Kindred (like me, he-he).
Most of the civies there would more than likely be categorized as traumatized or hallucinating if they decided to talk about what they saw and experienced there to the authorities.
@Vulpes is right.
Ming-Xiao literally bankrolls the Tong and Johnny AND the Mandarin.
Wiping them out is necessary for the sake of the Masquerade.

Even if you went full Thaumaturgy and launched blood at everything that moved, that could still be very easily covered up with a mere memory erasure or alteration. This is one of Ming Xiao's fronts within her part of Los Angeles and you can bet she wouldn't be keen on regular mortals discovering that the undead walk around Chinatown. In fact, every single supernatural creature wants to keep humanity in the dark about the true nature of this world. Sadly, that's one of the things Roguey is too thick-headed to ever fully understand. The supernaturals run the world from the shadows and, yes, that would include the shotcallers at the LA news and LAPD. Big businesses, the Internet, academia, the media, governments, practically everything you can think of is being secretly controlled by one of these many groups and they all want to keep it a secret from the normal human population. Even the Sabbat elders understand that this is in their best interest, which is why the have their own primitive version of the Masquerade called the Silence of the Blood that they enforce within their domains. They're fine with their shovelheads going wild in Camarilla territories because it forces their enemy to foot the resources to cover it up lest it attracts more undesirables to the area (eg. hunters).

 

[Roguey]

You really are a low-functioning autist, aren't you? Surviving a gang shootout seems like a vampiric feat to you? Humanity, especially in the modern age, always defaults to trying to rationalize the unexplainable. If an average person in real life saw some guy biting another guy in the middle of the night, they wouldn't automatically assume that they just saw a vampire. No, they'd think they encountered a tweaked out meth head. Those that don't wouldn't be believed by even their friends and family. The Masquerade isn't about stopping every single sighting of a supernatural element, but about covering up enough information that general population doesn't start questioning things.

In simple terms, the Masquerade means your character shouldn’t show any
supernatural behavior while in public. If a vampire overtly uses the Disciplines
or feeds in public, it will cause fear and panic in the streets and bring law
enforcement, who would rather shoot than ask questions

Those are the rules.

One person engaging in a firefight with an entire group of people with guns and surviving is supernatural behavior, only happens in the movies.

 

[Vulpes]

One person engaging in a firefight with an entire group of people with guns and surviving is supernatural behavior, only happens in the movies.

You're proving my point about autism. There's a billion different non-supernatural reasons, both rational and irrational, for why someone could survive a shootout like that. Maybe the shooter was ex-Special Forces, maybe the Tong were all too drunk to defend themselves, etc. Even the non-medicated schizophrenics would have other theories, like maybe the shooter was a humanoid robot, a lab-created supersoldier or even an alien in disguise. Not everything has to revolve around the fucking supernatural, you dolt. Look at modern day conspiracies, like the Mandalay Bay shooting. The people who don't believe in the official story because the facts don't add up to them (ie. 1000 rounds fired with no breaks in between) aren't automatically assuming that Paddock was actually a vampire with super speed, but that there were instead multiple shooters.

 

[Roguey]

You're proving my point about autism. There's a billion different non-supernatural reasons, both rational and irrational, for why someone could survive a shootout like that. Maybe the shooter was ex-Special Forces, maybe the Tong were all too drunk to defend themselves, etc. Even the non-medicated schizophrenics would have other theories, like maybe the shooter was a humanoid robot, a lab-created supersoldier or even an alien in disguise. Not everything has to revolve around the fucking supernatural, you dolt. Look at modern day conspiracies, like the Mandalay Bay shooting. The people who don't believe in the official story because the facts don't add up to them (ie. 1000 rounds fired with no breaks in between) aren't automatically assuming that Paddock was actually a vampire with super speed, but that there were instead multiple shooters.

Yeah and there's a potential non-supernatural reason for a PC biting a rando on the streets, but it's still a masquerade violation.

As Black Cat put it way back when

The argument still stands: You slaughter everyone making them assplode with your mind and make the headlines, nobody cares. A friend of you believes she recognized you and tells your old pals, masquerade violation.
...
But instead of giving you more options on how to tackle those quests it seems everyone only cares about masquerade violations when they aren't related to the main quest. A bum sees you forcefully feeding? OMG! You are a dead girl who drinks a museum full of lawmen dry and uses her evil tremere powers in front of the same security cameras that caught her on tape soaking bullets like they are nothing? Who cares.

 

[Wesp5]

Not according to Anchorman.

A shootout at a popular Chinatown underground club tonight left several dead and wounded after shots were exchanged between a local gang and an unidentified assailant. The club Glaze was a known hangout for one of Chinatown's largest street gangs, but it was also a popular hangout for local club kids. One witness stated that the lone assailant acted like quote something out of an action movie. I couldn't believe one person could do that end quote. Police suspect a rival gang may be behind tonight's violence.

Still no Masquerade breach is mentioned ! The civilians are set to flee the moment they hear combat and the Tongs will use firearms, so the rest is probably just exaggeration of the witnesses who were not there long enough to see anything.
But maybe I could give a Masquerade violation if you use Disciplines there, at least for the plus patch, as I restored the option to kill Johnny using stealth and thus avoid the whole combar altogether...

 

[ColaWerewolf]

Glaze was a Masq breach, anything that brings attention to a supernatural is a potential masq breach, but it got addressed and there were repercussions for Glaze in the form of Fu Syndicate which is another hunter group like the Society of Leopold (they have a kill squad called the Belmont team). I suppose they didn't want to give you a Masq Breach because it's literally forced on you and that would probably rub players the wrong way, but you do have to get forced into the Masq Breach so that Fu Syndicate knows what you are and unlock the front doors for you.

 

[Harthwain]

but you do have to get forced into the Masq Breach so that Fu Syndicate knows what you are and unlock the front doors for you.

Or you could make it optional content, instead of forcing it. There is nothing wrong with not everything being discoverable on your first attempt when playing blind.

 

[Roguey]

But maybe I could give a Masquerade violation if you use Disciplines there, at least for the plus patch, as I restored the option to kill Johnny using stealth and thus avoid the whole combar altogether...

Eh, Troika laid out their rules in the manual.

Masquerade – Represented by the sad drama mask, these areas have
the Masquerade in effect. If your character is caught using his powers
in these areas, you’ll cause a Masquerade violation (see the
Masquerade section).

• Elysium – Elysium is represented by the letter E. When your character
is in Elysium, no combat can occur. Your character will be unable to
ready weapons or use Disciplines in areas that are marked as Elysium.

• Combat – Represented by a pistol icon, this is an area where combat
can occur. Your character is free to use Disciplines and weapons to deal
with any threats.

Combat area means anything goes, even if it doesn't make sense. That ludonarrative dissonance.

 

[Raghar]

Wait did we had to kill Johny? It was amazing place go grab guns and sell them to that Black man. If Game allowed to store more than one, people wouldn't need to go to club and back to sell guns one by one.

 

[S.torch]

Stop talking about the Chinatown section. I get a physical reaction every time I remember those last dungeons...

 

[Wesp5]

Eh, Troika laid out their rules in the manual.

Yeah, and I never liked them. Were they from the PnP game or made up by Troika? I mean e. g. how is the player supposed to know whether a place is Elysium, except for obvious cases like LaCroix's tower? Same goes for Combat areas...

 

[Nano]

Widespread smartphone and social media use killed any concept of a believable supernatural masquerade. Smartphones and social media killed a lot of the mystery in life in general.

 

[ColaWerewolf]

Eh, Troika laid out their rules in the manual.

Yeah, and I never liked them. Were they from the PnP game or made up by Troika? I mean e. g. how is the player supposed to know whether a place is Elysium, except for obvious cases like LaCroix's tower? Same goes for Combat areas...

Combat zones were a Troika original, something to allow worry-free use of powers. I also agree, I think Bloodlines 2 would be better without them. They felt somewhat like quest markers in other games, relegating player observation to HUD cues. The big Pisha Elysium spoiler also completely ruined what would otherwise had been a tense confrontation.

 

[Storyfag]

The Glaze club massacre is another plot-forced Masquerade breach, there's a news report about it and everything.

Yeah, but in that case all witnesses probably end up death anyway .

Not according to Anchorman.

A shootout at a popular Chinatown underground club tonight left several dead and wounded after shots were exchanged between a local gang and an unidentified assailant. The club Glaze was a known hangout for one of Chinatown's largest street gangs, but it was also a popular hangout for local club kids. One witness stated that the lone assailant acted like quote something out of an action movie. I couldn't believe one person could do that end quote. Police suspect a rival gang may be behind tonight's violence.

Oh c'mon. This clearly is a well handled Masquerade breach.

 

[Storyfag]

Eh, Troika laid out their rules in the manual.

Yeah, and I never liked them. Were they from the PnP game or made up by Troika? I mean e. g. how is the player supposed to know whether a place is Elysium, except for obvious cases like LaCroix's tower? Same goes for Combat areas...

The terms Masquerade and Elysium come from PnP, but Troika did their own interpretation of them. In the PnP there are no designated Masquerade and non-Masquerade areas. An empty warehouse is safe to revel in one's Cainite nature. The same warehouse filled with mortals is unsafe to utilise Disciplines and the like... unless the mortals are to take their newfound knowledge of the supernatural with them to the grave. And yes, Cainites have no innate sense of Elysium. A place being Elysium must be communicated within their community. In general, an Elysium is assumed to be safe from Masquerade breaches - thus parties where Cainites feed openly from willing or addled blood dolls, latex-clad Nosferatu aiming to shock posh Toreador, etc.

 

[Storyfag]

Widespread smartphone and social media use killed any concept of a believable supernatural masquerade. Smartphones and social media killed a lot of the mystery in life in general.

You mean you can't find films of weird shit on the Internet? By the fuckload? Hell, I imagine that within the World of Darkness, the Technocracy has quite a few Mages Enlightened Scientists mass producing such content, so as to drown out real recordings in information noise. The Masses, after all, must not be relieved of their ignorance ahead of schedule.

 

[Bakir]

Should Vamps in the next iteration of VTM reveal themselves openly or nah?

The first few episodes of True Blood and how it showed Vampires being on TV, doing late night talk shows and whatnot were genuinely interesting. Obv True Blood fumbled the bag, but that theme could work, right?

Such a shame that the WoD IP is firmly in the far lefts hand. If they weren't such activists they could for example show how campaigning for Vampire rights is not that crazy compared to some of what we are currently doing.
Vamps manipulating humans and their naiveties, using our own dream ideologies against us.
College kids protesting for the discriminations against Vamps to end, shouting how they're just different and we should all co exist. Church getting corrupted.
Vamps appearing as guests on whatever equivalent of Joe Rogan Podcast in VTM universe is and telling true or bullshit stories. Online kiddos relating to hundred yo vamps in the comments section or on the internet in general and hyping them up.
Cartels and Mafia directly getting involved in pushing V. Fentanyl problem is now V problem.
Some elders joining religious parties. Banu Haqims telling/lying stories of how great the prophet of Islam was etc. Roman Vamps getting close with the kinds of Elon Musks and whatnot in VTM and trying to build a new Rome and re-unlive the glorious days.
This one's a lil crazy and cracky but maybe humans send Vamps to Mars before themselves? lol
Governments using Vampires to push their agenda. Left and Right parties competing against each other to make elders join their side and to aid their cause etc
Whistle blowers revealing secret documents which has the powers of each vampire clan among them and then suddenly dying in some circumstances.

Btw, even here I don't know how can Anarchs not feel out of place lol