Revisiting VtM: Bloodlines

[WhiteGuts]

Jeanette is all I want, men. I need that crazy pussy

 

[Lacrymas]

Giovanni mission was a lot of wasted potential. They are a nest of necromancy and incest, but the only thing you do there is talk to a few people who want to be Embraced (and help them/screw them over) and then go through a bunch of catacombs with zombies, whoop-di-fucking-do.

 

[pippin]

Jeanette is all I want, men. I need that crazy pussy

>Jeanette
>not Tourette

 

[baturinsky]

I'm starting to feel that taking Ninja kit for Malk was a big mistake. Most problematic fights are bosses, and they hit hard in melee. And I don't even save much XP on not upping Firearms, because there is three free Firearms points given in game.

 

[Zero Credibility]

Can you get free points if you take the ninja background? Anyway, bosses are what the flamethrower is for, doesn't matter how bad you are with firearms.

 

[baturinsky]

Can you get free points if you take the ninja background? Anyway, bosses are what the flamethrower is for, doesn't matter how bad you are with firearms.

You get 1-point bonus to Brawl and Melee. It helps, but not something game-changing.
In 1.2 flamethrower was running out if fuel literally in two seconds. Was it changed in UP?

 

[Zero Credibility]

Sorry, I mean can you get free firearms points or is the skill fixed to zero? It's been a while since I played the game, but when I did (with UP) flamethrower was quite useful for bosses, only the asian tentacle blob survived both tanks, and at least it softened her up. It still used ammo up very fast.

 

[baturinsky]

Sorry, I mean can you get free firearms points or is the skill fixed to zero? It's been a while since I played the game, but when I did (with UP) flamethrower was quite useful for bosses, only the asian tentacle blob survived both tanks, and at least it softened her up.

No, firearms are hard-locked at zero, quest bonuses do nothing.

On the other hand, only one boss so far that I could not deal with in melee was Landshark in Chinatown. Also, weapons with high damage (rifles, shotguns) seem to suffer less from low skill, so probably I can still use SPAS shotgun with high effectivity.

 

[Zombra]

The Society of Leopold OTOH was kinda nice. I've slowly built up my firearms skill near max (switched to my Tremere character, with Auspex maxed out it's kind of ridiculously high), and built up a nice bunch of guns, and that place was the first time I was actually having honest, brainless fun with the gameplay, blasting away those hunters every which way. Nice long sightlines for my sniper rifle too. It was, uh, really easy though.

Maxing guns and Auspex that early makes you a combat monster - don't be surprised when fights against humans are easy. I think that section was designed to be fun as a stealth mission - I know when I'm sneaking through breaking necks it's a very interesting challenge. You're definitely past the point of the game where they had the resources to design everything to brilliantly accommodate every playstyle.

 

[Roguey]

Tim Cain said the project was frozen before they could start the balance pass on the nosferatu warrens which is kinda obvious.

 

[Roqua]

You know what kind of ruined Ocean House for me even the first time I played it? I had just previously played Thief 3: Deadly Shadows. It kind of sucked overall, but nothing in any game ever has creeped me out as much as Shalebridge Cradle. Ocean House just felt like a cheap knockoff afterwards. It was basically the same premise, but the execution was so much better... or at least pushed my buttons so much better.

Roqua: The original post was just a bunch of initial, off-the-cuff impressions, and my point of comparison was with other games I've been playing recently, most of which are significantly more number-crunchy. The character creation gets the job done fine and is quite well-suited for an aRPG (or a story-heavy PnP game for that matter).

What games have you been playing recently? Anything I may of missed? I love deep and complex chargen and development.

 

[Roqua]

Demonicon - rpg-lite compared to source material and super rpg-lite compared to VtM: Bloodlines
VtM: Redemption - super rpg-lite linear console like game
Kotor - mechanics were more for flavor since these games are so easy and rpg-lite.
Baldur's Gate console games - super extra rpg-lite
The Genie AD&D game - super rpg lite
Sword Coast legends - super extra rpg lite

Non pnp games -
Dungeon Lords - decent game and rpg heavier than most games but hated for some unfathomable reason
Gothics - rpg lite games with super bad controls
Two Worlds - rpg lite
Risen - rpg lite
Jade Empire - super rpg-lite
Wicther games - rpg lite

Anything I missed is almost certain to be rpg lite. What do you find so streamlined about this game?

Every rpg is ''rpg-lite'', when you know what you're doing. You have to be total tard to not breeze through these games, when you've become accommodated with mechanics. Most of the ''oldschool'' games are even easier, because they are so number reliant. I actually find more challenge with action rpgs, because i suck at twitchy combat. Games where everything is determined by numbers are just none challenging, but still fun pass time for me.

I'm talking about needing to plan out character builds, having choices, having those choices effect the game, and different builds play vastly differently. And, lastly, having the effects be affective if that makes sense. For instance, compare Daggerfall to any Witcher to see what I mean.

 

[Lacrymas]

It's interesting (and worrying) how an uncompleted game from 12 years ago is so much better than the vast majority of current offerings.

 

[Gay-Lussac]

At this point, this is really railroady. I've wanted to switch allegiance from LaCroix to anyone -- ANYONE! -- for a while now, but no dice, none of them even want to talk to me about it. So I'm still serving that prat.

Technically, IIRC, you're being dominated by Lacroix.

 

[Prime Junta]

'k finished it

About Chinatown. There are some things there that do suggest that the Chinese/Wapanese thing may be at least partly a joke. One of Mitnick's e-mails in his Schrecknet missions said about Kamikazi Zen being a Kuei-jin front, "It's Japanese, I know, don't ask," for example. But, joke or not, it doesn't work for me. The Japanese schoolgirl demon-hunter was an obvious joke and a really bad one too.

That aside, the endgame was better than I remembered. Ninja'ing up Venture Tower was good clean fun, although by now I had maxed everything so it wasn't exactly hard. The final boss fight was... eh. Nah. Didn't care for it. The "this isn't even my final form" thing is pretty old, as well as the teleporting thing.

Dunno how much of it was Wesp's doing, but this maintained its pace better in the endgame than I remembered it. If only they had cut the last crawls after Society of Leopold down a bit: the Sabbat nest, the temple, and the tower were all just too long, too much of the same thing. The Hollywood sewers all over again.

(That fucking werewolf though. Feh.)

Final verdict? Fucking-A. Despite its flaws, well deserving its classic status. Breaking it down?

Writing: A++++, superb, fantastic, top-drawer. There are a handful of games in this same category, but only a handful. Only real flaw here IMO is Chinatown -- either a joke that falls flat, or just plain lazy. And then it felt fairly obvious that branches had been cut: it should've been possible to switch allegiance to the anarchs or Strauss earlier on, rather than just at the very end.
Voice-acting: A++++ again. The only instance where I thought it jarred a bit was Knox and Patty, and that's at least to an extent a matter of opinion.
Atmosphere: A-. The hubs are lovely, the music is great, and it maintains visual variety all through them. OTOH some of the side maps are repetitive and kind of boring, and there are a few things that jar; notably IMO the game does near-nudity wrong -- there's too much of it in the wrong places, so it loses its impact with characters like VV and Jeanette.
Level design: Mixed bag. Some of the levels were genuinely good -- I especially dug Society of Leopold, the Grout mansion, and the hospital/blood bank. On the other hand, there were some frankly bad areas that were just repetitive and tedious to get through, notably towards the endgame and starting with the infamous Hollywood sewers (thanks, Wesp, for the shortcut!)
Character development: B. Gets the job done. Nothing outstandingly exciting about it, but good enough for an aRPG.
Moment-to-moment gameplay: ... C-. Stealth is serviceable. Gunplay starts out bad but is serviceable towards the endgame. Brawling and melee are just plain bad; the reason I gave up on my Brujah halfway through.

So yeah. Fantastic game. Clearly rushed; some areas felt half-finished, some story branches were MIA, there was obvious filler here and there, and, well, the core gameplay. Even so, the highs are more than worth the lows, and now I'm really hoping for a sequel.

 

[Prime Junta]

At this point, this is really railroady. I've wanted to switch allegiance from LaCroix to anyone -- ANYONE! -- for a while now, but no dice, none of them even want to talk to me about it. So I'm still serving that prat.

Technically, IIRC, you're being dominated by Lacroix.

I don't think so, those were specific things. If I got pissy enough with LaCroix, he just chucks me into the street. Then it's either quit playing or crawl back to him, because there are no alternatives to continuing the plot.

 

[Prime Junta]

What games have you been playing recently? Anything I may of missed? I love deep and complex chargen and development.

Probably not. Most recently, Pillars of Eternity and Shadowrun Returns. Pillars does have complex chargen and development by any measure; SRR not so much but there is arguably more to it than in VtM:B, at least in the way it impacts gameplay.

 

[Goral]

(...) Only real flaw here IMO is Chinatown -- either a joke that falls flat, or just plain lazy. (...)

One of the things that cracks me up every time are Chinatown goons scratching their balls. Not sure if anyone else has noticed it but they've included animation like this. I don't remember a game where characters felt so real as in VtM:B, compare the animations from Fallout 4 for example.

 

[Prime Junta]

and there are a few things that jar; notably IMO the game does near-nudity wrong

I don't know how street hookers operate in California, but their attire in VtmB was spot on for Rio.

Beside the point. Even if it was realistic, it diluted the impact.

 

[Prime Junta]

(...) Only real flaw here IMO is Chinatown -- either a joke that falls flat, or just plain lazy. (...)

One of the things that cracks me up every time are Chinatown goons scratching their balls. Not sure if anyone else has noticed it but they've included animation like this. I don't remember a game where characters felt so real as in VtM:B, compare the animations from Fallout 4 for example.

Yep. I also LOLed at the hummers in progress in some dark alleys.

 

[Bubbles]

9.5 final is out. No patch notes yet.

 

[Krivol]

I just finished Ocean House and died in boiler room . Overall finishing it 3rd or 4th time is rather boring.

Could anyone explain to me why main hero is not angry on Lacroix or whole society for killing his/her boy/girlfried in the begining? I mean she/he is transforming us into vampire, violating the masquarade, risking a lot - and why? Only two reasons on my mind are:

1. She/He is actually part of conspiracy, and turns us into a vampire due to someone's request - and his/her death is unexpected for him.her (Lacroix killing his puppet maybe?)
2. There is some huge love affair and he/she is our lover and all that shit from Iced Earth writing - if that's so then why we don;t give a shit after he/she being killed? I mean Lacroix is saying that we should do something for him in Santa Monica, and we should obey the vampiric law and we are totally submissive.

Maybe I've missed something...

 

[Excidium II]

Troika just didn't feel like writing 7 different sires and integrating them to the story would be worth the effort, so they die.

 

[pippin]

It's not like you were in a relationship with the sire. Remember that vampires don't feel anything, and that means nothing at all (hunger, thirst (of water), love, etc). They lost any sort of human answer/behavior/etc. Vampires have a way to "mask" their undead status by wasting a lot of blood to make their skin look a little bit more alive, but generally it's toomuch of a hassle,especially for something that looks like a one night stand. Besides, it's implied that you weren't a ghoul, and that vampire was simply out for blood. It's not the first time it happened. Besides, the intro is agood way of showing you that going against the Masquerade means death.

 

[Excidium II]

You can't accidentally embrace someone.