Revisiting VtM: Bloodlines

[Roguey]

What does he say after that?

Weird how I'm using occam's razor here and you guise are all nooooooo the writers are hacks who weren't thinking about these things

Yeah so they didn't bother to change some things about the system that only spergs would care about.

 

[Excidium II]

I just think you take far too much meaning from what he says.

It's more sensible to assume he's saying you got stronger because you did get stronger after all. It's a very typical "ah so we meet again" line said by every odd villain. Except it's the smell of your blood not your sword stance or something because he's a cryptic vampire.

Plus the second screen he could just mean the blood is wasted because Sabbat think vampires are the master race, so the gift is wasted on a lapdog like you.

 

[Roguey]

I just think you take far too much meaning from what he says.

It's more sensible to assume he's saying you got stronger because you did get stronger after all. It's a very typical "ah so we meet again" line said by every odd villain. Except it's the smell of your blood not your sword stance or something because he's a cryptic vampire.

Plus the second screen he could just mean the blood is wasted because Sabbat think vampires are the master race, so the gift is wasted on a lapdog like you.

He also asks if you're wondering why you're suddenly so much stronger than you were.

 

[Excidium II]

And therein lies the whole conspiracy.

 

[Volrath]

Use Auspex on the cab driver.

 

[Ash]

One of the best storyfag/atmosphag games ever made, let down by shitty gameplay (which is funny, considering it takes inspiration from Deus Ex).
Mods need to fix ASAP, and then you'll have an easy contender for GOTYAY.

 

[Excidium II]

How on earth would mods fix this?

 

[Ash]

I have many things in mind and drafted on paper from my many times fantasizing about doing so, but will not act as it would take a lot of time. Depends on your definition of "fix" too: if the only way it can be fixed in your eyes is by making it turn-based then we'd never agree. Myself I more have mechanical and systemic reinforcement in mind, and replacing the stupid with the smart.

 

[laclongquan]

Why the hell are you trying to persuade players that their illusion of avatars is illusionary? I mean, the whole fucking point is that PC got played by some puppetmaster behind the scene, which means they are small fry of small fries, which mean it go against player's ego. So of fucking course they would try to deny that possibility.

 

[Delterius]

This thread makes me sad because Bloodlines was probably an unique experience that will never be repeated.

 

[Prime Junta]

How many times does he dominate you earlier in the game?

Two so far, one for each time I told him to go fuck himself. :D

 

[Prime Junta]

I have many things in mind and drafted on paper from my many times fantasizing about doing so, but will not act as it would take a lot of time. Depends on your definition of "fix" too: if the only way it can be fixed in your eyes is by making it turn-based then we'd never agree. Myself I more have mechanical and systemic reinforcement in mind, and replacing the stupid with the smart.

Mechanics and systems wouldn't fix it. You'd need to fix the core moment-to-moment gameplay first: the feel of movement and feedback in close combat, to take the two biggest offenders.

 

[Jaesun]

 

[Zero Credibility]

Guys, it's a video game.

Heh, yeah. It's a great game, but still a game.

I don't see that Cain himself, a mystical progenitor no one currently alive or undead has seen in well, ever, is personally pulling your strings over this small scale vampire turf war. And PC generation clearly stays the same the whole game, otherwise it would be natural to assume diablerie as the reason for your success. And the reason the PC can resist the dominate attempt could simply be you passed your last saving throw or LaCroix fumbled his roll.

True, somebody could be feeding you powerful blood to supercharge you, and Andrei could be sensing that. Not sure if that would have effect on the dominate as it doesn't actually lower your gen. And Andrei could be just saying in his own unique way that you are stronger now. Or he could be sensing that bloodbag of elder blood you found (among other places) in his fridge and chugged down without a thought of consequences.

All this speculation is fun, but in the end it's probably just a standard of a crpg - zero to hero, you grow powerful over the game until you can take everyone on and win. Being an 8th generation would certainly help a little, even though it also raises a question over why was your sire that low gen. Maybe he did engage in a round or two of drain-the-elder, possibly explaining why no one really objected over his execution? Who knows.

 

[Jaesun]

The thing is, Troika took a setting full of conspiracy, deception and politics and it all fits. Even CHARNAME's extraordinary powers. It was your Swan Song, and I am so sad it was your last.

 

[Prime Junta]

Or a mysterious cab driver!!

Who happens to be Caine.

(Or, happened to be Caine, until White Wolf chickened out and retconned him to be some Malk.)

 

[ArchAngel]

Guys, it's a video game.

Heh, yeah. It's a great game, but still a game.

I don't see that Cain himself, a mystical progenitor no one currently alive or undead has seen in well, ever, is personally pulling your strings over this small scale vampire turf war. And PC generation clearly stays the same the whole game, otherwise it would be natural to assume diablerie as the reason for your success. And the reason the PC can resist the dominate attempt could simply be you passed your last saving throw or LaCroix fumbled his roll.

True, somebody could be feeding you powerful blood to supercharge you, and Andrei could be sensing that. Not sure if that would have effect on the dominate as it doesn't actually lower your gen. And Andrei could be just saying in his own unique way that you are stronger now. Or he could be sensing that bloodbag of elder blood you found (among other places) in his fridge and chugged down without a thought of consequences.

All this speculation is fun, but in the end it's probably just a standard of a crpg - zero to hero, you grow powerful over the game until you can take everyone on and win. Being an 8th generation would certainly help a little, even though it also raises a question over why was your sire that low gen. Maybe he did engage in a round or two of drain-the-elder, possibly explaining why no one really objected over his execution? Who knows.

Maybe Jack made you and used the other guy as a stooge.

 

[Prime Junta]

The whole siring thing was an obvious setup. For one thing, PC and "sire" fucked, which vampires don't do and especially not with kine (exception made for Jeanette ofc). For another, the enforcement showed up immediately: how would they have known?

It's quite clear that somebody else sired PC, put the fake sire on the scene, and ratted them out to the Camarilla, then engineered it so that the fake sire was executed while the PC was spared. There's any number of ways he could've done that -- pull strings with Nines so he intervenes at the right time, pull strings with LaCroix so he would've spared PC regardless, etc.

That someone clearly had the whole thing planned from the start, and that someone must be really old and really devious. Could be a 7th-gen. Could be Caine himself. This isn't some local turf war we're talking about, it's the lead-up to the Gehenna.

 

[Zero Credibility]

Sure, maybe your sire was another elder, explaining why you are 8th generation. Not Jack though, he's not low-gen enough. I think he is 11th generation or so?

 

[Popiel]

Not Jack though, he's not low-gen enough. I think he is 11th generation or so?

That would make him too weak and young for all we know about the guy (thin-bloods are 14th and higher).

 

[ZagorTeNej]

For that matter, there's no direct in-game evidence that the taxi driver is Caine. There is also no evidence that your character's generation changes over the course of the game.

No direct in-game evidence but it's heavily implied that he is, from the dialogue with the thin-blood seer in Santa Monica, player's reaction during the end drive if he's a Malk, the way he talks about Anarchs being a curious experiment (or something similar, he sounds like a parent that has tried different methods to raise/educate his children and is observing the results).

Of course whether it's cannon (IIRC supposedly Caine was actually napping in some cave during these events), fits the lore and other such nonsense is a different matter but for the purposes of the game I'd say it's pretty clear that the devs intended for him to indeed be Caine.

Maybe Jack made you and used the other guy as a stooge.

Jack's pretty high gen himself (10th) so him making the player wouldn't result in the latter being especially powerful (quite the opposite actually). Jack's dangerous because he lived long enough to develop his powers considerably and because he's one crafty SOB, not because he's low gen.

 

[ArchAngel]

How do we know Jack's generation?

 

[Prime Junta]

How do we know Jack's generation?

http://whitewolf.wikia.com/wiki/Los_Angeles_By_Night

 

[Multidirectional]

Playing as a gunfighter is much better. The one redeeming jewel in the cesspool of Bloodlines' combat is that Colt Anaconda revolver, which not only looks sweet and packs a hard punch, but comes with the alternate fanning mode (where you fan the trigger mechanism with your off hand, wild west style) which essentially allows you to machine gun enemies, turning even difficult enemies into swiss cheese in a stylish way. The ammo is kinda hard to buy though, so I had to put in a few points into melee for trash mobs, otherwise I always ran out too fast.

I suggest not wasting points in Melee and just raising Unarmed to at least 5, because it also raises your chance to succesfully feed during combat. Partnered with Blood Buff it can easily get you through first act when you don't have good firearms yet.

 

[Prime Junta]

Playing as a gunfighter is much better. The one redeeming jewel in the cesspool of Bloodlines' combat is that Colt Anaconda revolver, which not only looks sweet and packs a hard punch, but comes with the alternate fanning mode (where you fan the trigger mechanism with your off hand, wild west style) which essentially allows you to machine gun enemies, turning even difficult enemies into swiss cheese in a stylish way. The ammo is kinda hard to buy though, so I had to put in a few points into melee for trash mobs, otherwise I always ran out too fast.

I suggest not wasting points in Melee and just raising Unarmed to at least 5, because it also raises your chance to succesfully feed during combat. Partnered with Blood Buff it can easily get you through first act when you don't have good firearms yet.

That's my strategy actually.

I've put three pips into Strength and don't intend to raise it further. With Potence this puts Melee high enough that I meet the reqs for the fire ax and sword. I've got Unarmed at 7 as a kind of side effect -- 1 point from Brujah, 1 Brawl from Nines, 1 I put in myself, and 1 from a book. With Potence (moreso with Blood Buff), Charname is rather good at punching things actually. (I put that 1 point into Brawl because of that book -- it had 2 Brawl as a requirement and gave a free third point, so I thought it was worth the small XP investment.)

I hope I won't have to raise these further; I'll put the XP into gunplay instead, once I'm through the Malk mansion.