Revisiting VtM: Bloodlines

[Roguey]

That's a whole damn lot of larpin'

I find it easier to accept the devs just didn't think much. Though this much conspiracy is fitting.

It's not LARPing if it's stated outright.

 

[Excidium II]

Stated by whom?

 

[Roguey]

Stated by whom?

I already said Andrei.

Additionally, they didn't just forget that the Prince could dominate, they deliberately show him try and fail even though he succeeds the last time he sends you on an errand.

 

[Excidium II]

Stated by whom?

I already said Andrei.

Additionally, they didn't just forget that the Prince could dominate, they deliberately show him try and fail even though he succeeds the last time he sends you on an errand.

Then why did he easily succeed all the previous times?

And if your sire is some crazy powerful methuselah why does he die like a bitch?

 

[Popiel]

Then why did he easily succeed all the previous times?

And if your sire is some crazy powerful methuselah why does he die like a bitch?

Who said that this nameless vampire junkie was PCs sire...? Damn, it's highly probable that we encounter Cain in the game, all sort of shenanigans are going on and PC is still a tool 99% the time.

 

[Roguey]

Then why did he easily succeed all the previous times?

And if your sire is some crazy powerful methuselah why does he die like a bitch?

Caine's been drip-feeding the PC in your sleep and gives you your last big injection after the werewolf, which ends up putting your generation lower than the Prince's.

 

[Popiel]

Caine's been drip-feeding the PC in your sleep and gives you your last big injection after the werewolf, which ends up putting your generation lower than the Prince's.

Now that's LARPing.

 

[Excidium II]

This is just too

 

[ZagorTeNej]

Game most directly address this issue when PC talks with Andrei (Tzimisce fleshcrafter from Hollywood). Andrei mentions that we, as PC, cannot tell how powerful our blood truly is, and that it's in the end wasted on us.

Yup that's what I meant with the game acknowledging player's meteoric rise in power. I've still yet to see any RPG (with a similar player progression) tackle that satisfactory except maybe PST where the Nameless One isn't learning new skills as much as he's just remembering them.

I always interpreted facts in the game as hints towards our sire being much lower generation than is usually thought, perhaps 6th or even 5th.

Yeah but the PC has 15 blood points which would make him 8th generation. I prefer the Cain (or some other very low gen vampire) feeding you theory, especially given that Jack says that a drop of ancient blood would make any kindred near unstoppable (or something to that effect).

 

[Roguey]

Now that's LARPing.

Well if you want to ignore facts like "Your character starts out as a higher generation than the Prince and at the end is suddenly lower than he is" or why your character, some new nobody, gets the particular attention of a gambit roulette-playing cab driver who keeps sending your cryptic emails hinting at his plan.

 

[Excidium II]

To me it's just a mix of supporting the conspiracy theme + taking some freedoms with the interpretation of source material, not some everything is connected! master narrative.

Yeah but the PC has 15 blood points which would make him 8th generation.

Eh I think this isn't supposed to be representative of anything, it's just different mechanics.

 

[ArchAngel]

One area where the writing in Bloodlines actually fails is in characterizing the player character. You don't really get a sense of who the person you're playing was before they became a vampire, and unless you're playing a malkavian the dialog options don't really show much personality.

Yeah, I think it's mostly just the result of a very imposing NPC cast and a very limited voiceover, which makes a lot of the non-skill dialogue linear. So more often than not, the PC's dialogue lines just feel like they're lamely prompting the next paragraph from the NPC, or making a random quip which is usually ignored (there's that 'movie script' quest with V where she talks about a film idea that features a secret society of evil beings, and you're given one sincere answer and three lame cracks about how that must be a reference to the gaming industry / the Bush administration / Care Bears. They're all the same joke!)

Don't get me wrong; I think the light touch of the writing and relatively little angst in Bloodlines is really welcome. But at its worst, it can make the PC come across as a bit of a snickering ass.

There's a particular line I hate right at the start, about 10 minutes after you've been transformed into an undead monster, witnessed a gruesome death, just escaped a similar fate, and drank human blood for the first time. 'Great! When do I get to pick my cape? Can I choose the colour?' It's so goofy that I can't imagine a real human being ever saying it, it's totally deaf to the context of the conversation, and it's only 1 of 2 options. Terrible.

But I'm a big fan of that one sequence in Hollywood, with an old friend who comes running out to plead with you to come home. You've never met with her before, it's a very short scene - but it works. For the first time in the game, you actually get the sense of a real shift from who you were (especially if you then use your developed vampiric powers to drive her away), and a sense of loss and melancholy in what you've become. It's a really solid emotional moment, without dragging things out or trying too hard.

Does not matter, it is not your story. The game is Jack's story. He gets his way no matter what you do.

But I didn't mind. Jack and Jon Irenicus are two of my favorite computer game characters.

 

[Excidium II]

But why can't you side with Andrei :<

 

[Xor]

There's no evidence to suggest that Caine was feeding your character. For that matter, there's no direct in-game evidence that the taxi driver is Caine. There is also no evidence that your character's generation changes over the course of the game. In fact, the exact opposite is true - your blood pool stays the same size throughout the whole game. LaCroix's dominate failure at the end of the game could've been for any number of reasons, not the least of which being that Dominate 1 can't be used to make someone kill themselves (I believe that's what he tried to order you to do).

 

[Black]

There's no evidence to suggest that Caine was feeding your character. For that matter, there's no direct in-game evidence that the taxi driver is Caine. There is also no evidence that your character's generation changes over the course of the game. In fact, the exact opposite is true - your blood pool stays the same size throughout the whole game. LaCroix's dominate failure at the end of the game could've been for any number of reasons, not the least of which being that Dominate 1 can't be used to make someone kill themselves (I believe that's what he tried to order you to do).

No, he went "give me le key". Which should've worked.

 

[Excidium II]

He just got a shitty roll.

 

[Xor]

No, he went "give me le key". Which should've worked.

Still. Dominate requires a skill check made against the target's willpower, and (as far as I can remember) willpower isn't systemized in Bloodlines so we have no idea what the player character's is at any given point in the game. My point was that resisting dominate doesn't automatically mean your character's generation changed.

 

[Roguey]

The rules state that dominate only works on vampires of a higher generation. It works every time except the last, and I'm pretty sure he attempts it twice, ergo your generation is lower.

 

[Excidium II]

The rules state that dominate only works on vampires of a higher generation. It works every time except the last, and I'm pretty sure he attempts it twice, ergo your generation is higher.

The point is that it can fail regardless.

Easier to assume you got more willpower after all the shit you went through than your generation got magically lower.

 

[Roguey]

The rules state that dominate only works on vampires of a higher generation. It works every time except the last, and I'm pretty sure he attempts it twice, ergo your generation is higher.

The point is that it can fail regardless.

Easier to assume you got more willpower than your generation got magically lower.

The rules also state that it's possible to magically lower your generation and mysterious cab driver seems like the kind of guy who would know how to do that.

Here, I took a screencap.

 

[Excidium II]

The rules state that dominate only works on vampires of a higher generation. It works every time except the last, and I'm pretty sure he attempts it twice, ergo your generation is higher.

The point is that it can fail regardless.

Easier to assume you got more willpower than your generation got magically lower.

The rules also state that it's possible to magically lower your generation and mysterious cab driver seems like the kind of guy who would know how to do that.

Here, I took a screencap.

What does he say after that?

 

[Xor]

The rules state that dominate only works on vampires of a higher generation.

Actually, the rules say that dominate doesn't work on vampires of a lower generation. You can use it on same-generation vampires all you want.

It works every time except the last, and I'm pretty sure he attempts it twice, ergo your generation is lower.

How many times does he dominate you earlier in the game? And like I said, there's no reason why a higher willpower couldn't explain his failure.

Lowering your generation in Vampire isn't exactly an easy task. The only other way I know of besides diablerie involves thaumaturgy, a ritual, and hundreds of blood points.

 

[Excidium II]

How many times does he dominate you earlier in the game? And like I said, there's no reason why a higher willpower couldn't explain his failure.

It depends on how many times you try to say no to his requests I think. 2 or 3?

Lowering your generation in Vampire isn't exactly an easy task. The only other way I know of besides diablerie involves thaumaturgy, a ritual, and hundreds of blood points.

Or a mysterious cab driver!!

 

[Average Manatee]

The number of blood points and your stat cap corresponds to an 8th generation. Still doesn't explain your insane advancement in powers that soon sees you beating experienced vampires that are at least generation 8 and probably lower, but there's good reason why you can clean up the chaff.

 

[Black]

Guys, it's a video game.