Revisiting VtM: Bloodlines

[Wesp5]

I don't know if you changed how it works in plus patch, but I remember in Camarilla Edition mod - they make it work like usual discipline which adds points above strength/dexterity 5.

This is the same way it is handled in the plus patch, which a) doesn't make physical stats redundant early in the game and b) makes the Tremere still have their disadvantange.

 

[SCO]

I always sell bloodbuff and buy a 'new' out of clan discipline when i play nowadays. It makes the game harder lolwut. (and the metagame more involved, which is why i do it).

If the patch had a option to randomize stat increasing items and manuals it would even more involved.

 

[Old One]

I've never used Bloodbuff at all apart from opening the occasional lock. Never seen a need for it.

 

[Lambach]

I've never used Bloodbuff at all apart from opening the occasional lock. Never seen a need for it.

It's quite handy if you're putting all of your XP into non-combat stuff. I once did a female Toreador playthrough where I forbade myself from putting points into anything combat-related other than Presence, and Bloodbuff was a godsend.

 

[Old One]

I can see how that would make sense.

 

[HansDampf]

Wesp5

Still following this thread? I have a few questions if you don't mind, before I eventually dive into this again with the new patch.

1) Every phone you pick up in the game will float back to its original position after a few seconds, and it looks as if you were talking to your empty hand. Since I've also seen this happen in the love letter video I assume this is a common and known bug? Is this unfixable?

2) "Warning: overflowed CRenderList group 2"
This message (or similar) shows up in some of the larger maps with open areas like the exterior of the Ocean House Hotel or the final scene with Jack, and my framerate drops towards cinematic levels. Cause?

3) I suppose there is no good way to fix the spastic cloth physics? Makes sense for the engine not to calculate physics for characters that aren't on screen. But when they enter your fov again, their clothes will reset as if they'd been suspended in zero gravity. Just one of the game's quirks you get to love...

4) I was listening to the unused music in the sound folder. Do you know how they were originally intended to be used? Some of them fit right in. But, for example, "To Live Forever" plays at the museum, and the map is so short that you won't get to hear much of it. It also sounds like it belonged somewhere else, maybe a scene or sequence that was cut? Know any details about that?

5) Is this line from Therese used in the game at all? I have no idea when she could say this. It sounds like a Dementation response, though that wouldn't make any sense to me.

 

[jungl]

arcanum was the better troikia game but this threads proof that pure autism runs the game industry. Ponies=vampires in this case.

 

[Wesp5]

1) Every phone you pick up in the game will float back to its original position after a few seconds, and it looks as if you were talking to your empty hand. Since I've also seen this happen in the love letter video I assume this is a common and known bug? Is this unfixable?

Yes, this is a known, but unfixable bug. I'm not a model specialist, but it seems we can't do much with the Bloodlines models! We can only edit vertices, but not even add or remove some as far as I know. And we can't edit buggy animations like the phone one at all.

2) "Warning: overflowed CRenderList group 2"
This message (or similar) shows up in some of the larger maps with open areas like the exterior of the Ocean House Hotel or the final scene with Jack, and my framerate drops towards cinematic levels. Cause?

Sorry, I have no idea. It might be connected to the details, you can lower them using the console commands "cl_detailfade" (1000) and "cl_detaildist" (1200).

3) I suppose there is no good way to fix the spastic cloth physics.

See above. We can't do much with models and this probably is the result of the alpha Source engine Troika had to use...

4) I was listening to the unused music in the sound folder. Do you know how they were originally intended to be used? Some of them fit right in. But, for example, "To Live Forever" plays at the museum, and the map is so short that you won't get to hear much of it.

Yeah, most of the new pieces I don't know where they belong and I needed to place them somewhere, like at the museum, where you could at least wait and listen to them if you wanted to. When I emailed Rik Schaffer about the music he only remembered that "Open Season" was for a fifth hub that was cut early on, a kind of East Los Angeles Hub with hispanic influence. So there would have been lots of places there where the other pieces could have been used, but he also wrote that some didn't quite fit anywhere at the time.

5) Is this line from Therese used in the game at all? I have no idea when she could say this.

It is used and comes as the reply to the following answer when she asks you to do what she wants: "I've got another idea - I kill you, I kill the prince, I kill everybody!" !

 

[HansDampf]

Sorry, I have no idea. It might be connected to the details, you can lower them using the console commands "cl_detailfade" (1000) and "cl_detaildist" (1200).

You are probably right. I vaguely remember having changed those values.

Yeah, most of the new pieces I don't know where they belong and I needed to place them somewhere, like at the museum, where you could at least wait and listen to them if you wanted to. When I emailed Rik Schaffer about the music he only remembered that "Open Season" was for a fifth hub that was cut early on, a kind of East Los Angeles Hub with hispanic influence. So there would have been lots of places there where the other pieces could have been used, but he also wrote that some didn't quite fit anywhere at the time.

Shame. I would have preferred that over Chinatown.

It is used and comes as the reply to the following answer when she asks you to do what she wants: "I've got another idea - I kill you, I kill the prince, I kill everybody!" !

That's still a strange response.

But thanks for answering. Will fist in 3 months.

 

[Wesp5]

So the final UP 9.6 is out on The Patches Scrolls, not many changes to the last betas though: http://www.patches-scrolls.de/patch/4647/7/73724

 

[anus_pounder]

Yes, but all other clans can get two more points in all the related feats with Bloodbuff so this is still a disadvantage!

What the hell are you talking about, bloodbuff wouldn't increase physical stats above 5. That is why there is no disadvantage.

I mean Tremere worked fine as they were for over ten years

I think you are wrong person to make that kind of change, but bloodbuff is broken.

I doubt a change is needed

Well, even if we agree on something in vanilla is broken it doesn't mean change is needed.

the way you suggest it will be impossible to pick locks

picking locks should be optional. damn, it doesn't make any sense to put a door with lock if you can open it w/o investing in lockpicks...
plus, in tutorial there is a door with lockpick 3(or whatever) but in gallery noire quest - just 1.
and in any other quest in santa-monica investing in lockpicks doesn't make any sense... the whole skill is broken because of bloodbuff

Completely off topic, but this shit in Human Revolution and Mankind Divided had me groaning me with dismay. Every single piece of information absolutely vital to progression is hidden behind a piss easy Level 1 hack minigame. Its like the devs desperately wanted you to experience their 'fun' minigame even if you play a character not built for hacking.

 

[Wesp5]

Its like the devs desperately wanted you to experience their 'fun' minigame even if you play a character not built for hacking.

Or maybe they just want to artificially prolong the playing duration of a rather short game?

 

[Wesp5]

For everyone who hasn't played Bloodlines yet, I think there is the usual Steam Halloween sale on for it !

 

[Delterius]

Wesp5 did you move the stealth 0 book from the Pawn Shop lodgings?

 

[Wesp5]

Wesp5 did you move the stealth 0 book from the Pawn Shop lodgings?

No, never did. But unless you know where it is, it's easy to overlook!

 

[Gauldur's Bait]

Sooooo...finally got to finish this one for the first(!) time (mixing it in with Dungeon Rats) as Gunslinging Ventrue with Domination maxed out. A 3-day sick-leave allowed me to finish it faster than I expected. Except for the sewer section, which sucked and was waaaay too long, it really delivered and although there is a sense of linearity, there is simultaneously an obvious replay value making itself known (clans, choice of allies, choice of solving quests).

Ventrue was a nice choice, because of domination in dialogue, but in combat it was quite OP. Suicide or Possession on enemies, and then Trance + Feeding on the last enemy was often an insta-win strategy against non-vampires. Some of the boss fights however, like the first Tzimisce fight and, to a certain extent before I figured out that Trance works well, the fight against Ming Xiao, were quite tough however. I had missed the ability to toggle the Rate of Fire on the assault shotgun, so that would have made the Tzimisce fight a lot easier.

What I don't understand is why some people (not only on the codex but elsewhere) recommend against maxing out domination for ventrue. Although I don't think I ever required it maxed out in dialogue, but it gave me massive advantages, and some of the last combat encounters against humans became very easy with mass suicide and possession. So I understand if people recommend against it because it is OP, but not if they think it is redundant, because it isn't. I could have used those skill points on lockpicking instead to have more exploration possibilities however, as that was one of the stats I skipped (I chose to focus on hacking).

EDIT: Really enjoyed the game and will probably come back to it quite soon for another playthrough.

I'll also take this opportunity to thank WESP for the patches - thank you! Played with GOG-version with the 9.5 UP, latest version has the 9.6 patch so will obviously replay on that version.

Some bugs I noticed:

- Clipping issues. Characters, myself included, getting stuck in doors and in the scenery.
- Water reflection did not work as intended, surface reflects odd textures and only becomes transparent water with reflections when you get close enough.
- AI opponent's bullets magically go through the scenery, while your bullets don't. This kind of evened the odds sometimes, me with maxed out domination versus magical bullets.

 

[makiavelli747]

Some of the boss fights however, like the first Tzimisce fight were quite tough however.

Are kidding? You can dominate his minions and watch them killing Tzimisce for you.

 

[Gauldur's Bait]

Are kidding? You can dominate his minions and watch them killing Tzimisce for you.

Yes and no. That was one of my tactics, but the domination did not work every time. The minions resisted it quite often actually, so relying on that alone wasn't possible.

 

[makiavelli747]

but the domination did not work every time.

It's weaker if you using sneak mod.

 

[Gauldur's Bait]

It's weaker if you using sneak mod.

Played the previous GOG-release, that came with UP9.5 Basic. No other mods. IIRC the domination worked against th e minions in less than 50% of attempts, but it drained blood every time, so it wasn't the best possible strategy. Of course, getting even one minion dominated for a while made the fight easier, and that's how I eventually won - with a sufficient number of domination attempts being effective.

 

[Delterius]

He's saying you should have used the Golden True Patch nobody cares about and which Tessera doesn't want anyone to use.

 

[makiavelli747]

Played the previous GOG-release, that came with UP9.5 Basic.

Same, but I never had problems dominating them. For 3rd lvl spell that kills targets 50% sounds about true, but not about 4th one.
Well, maybe I was lucky... but then again, I played like a thousand times with same build.

He's saying you should have used the Golden True Patch nobody cares about and which Tessera doesn't want anyone to use.

You are a fucking moron, I didn't even touched Tessera's mod, although I played a lot of mods(like CE or final nights).

 

[Delterius]

Well, I was thinking. The Malkavian playthrough is a gold standard of reactivity, sure. But while there's a lot of uniqueness to the Malkavians, one of the most fun aspects of their game is to see how the game's characters react to it. I instantly fell in love with them when Jack's amused at how fucked you are, right at the beginning. Little things like these make my day. And perhaps offer a glimpse of what could have been, had Bloodlines been better managed/financed. So, I wonder about other clans:

Tremere get a few choice dialogue lines when first meeting with Andrei.

Toreadors get to insult Gary a bit after his tortured monster monologue.

I assume Brujah and Ventrue get something out of the Anarchs/LaCroix?

 

[SCO]

The second most lines clan is probably nosferatu. Worth a playthrough, if you never didn't. Especially interesting with Clan Quest or Camarilla edition with the 'blood drains down on hubs' option since it makes obvious and necessary a play mechanic that you might have overlooked (hunting walkers and not being seen drinking).

I actually never saw the hunter teams or the low masquerade ending until that playthrough ... or optimized my playthrough to use money from hunter drops item selling* 8)

*money is more important on Camarilla edition since you can buy dots with it with a mechanic.

 

[Wesp5]

And perhaps offer a glimpse of what could have been, had Bloodlines been better managed/financed.

While the NPC answers for different clans are limited by the recorded voice-overs of course, it might be interesting to know from a technical point of view, that the Bloodlines dialogue files have empty fields for different player answers for all seven choosable clans! In the game only the male/female/Malkavian fields were used though...