Revisiting VtM: Bloodlines

[Latelistener]

So, I wonder about other clans

From my personal experience, I would placed Tremere after Malkavian and Nosferatu. You get some unique lines with Max, your own classy apartments inside the tower. Also, the blood magic is something else.
Ventrue, Toreador and Gangrel have about the same amount of reactivity. Ventrue is more close to LaCroix, Toreador - VV, Isaac, and by being a Gangrel you can get some stuff out of Beckett (I also enjoyed the warform).
Haven't played as Brujah.

I also think Heather changes her behavior depending on your clan (not just Malkavian) due to blood bond, but I don't quite remember the impact of it.

 

[Wesp5]

I also think Heather changes her behavior depending on your clan (not just Malkavian) due to blood bond, but I don't quite remember the impact of it.

I don't think this is true, but she does indeed speak many different lines when you are a Malkavian, in a way that no other character in Bloodlines does!

 

[HansDampf]

Are kidding? You can dominate his minions and watch them killing Tzimisce for you.

Yes and no. That was one of my tactics, but the domination did not work every time. The minions resisted it quite often actually, so relying on that alone wasn't possible.

You can cheese the meatballs by crouching. Their first attack will always miss. Easy bossfight.

 

[Zombra]

Mmmm .... cheese meatballs ....

 

[hello friend]

I don't understand what the deal is with people being all 'remember to put points into combat man' 'don't take that skill, it's suboptimal'. First time I played (Ventrue) I focused on pumping lockpicking, persuasion, hacking, research, dominate, stuff like that. I wasted some points too in the early game - I thought I'd fucked up my build. Whenever I ran into combat, I'd just suicide them (better than a sniper rifle), Trance + Feed if I needed to top up on blood. I'd Sneak (1 point only) around and do the above if other dudes were nearby. If multiple enemies, I'd Blood Buff, Presence, and Trance, slaughter, Trance + Feed on last one or two. Never needed to increase stats, Blood Buff took care of that. Didn't need Brawl, didn't need Melee, didn't need Soak. Killing the Chinese assassin required two tries, but other than that it was a breeze. Prolly picked every lock, hacked every hack. Researched every research. Didn't start putting point into combat before late game, sewers were a piece of cake, didn't take long.

Only genuinely frustrating bit was the museum. Getting through there the sneaky way with Sneak 1 is a bitch.

 

[Delterius]

Only genuinely frustrating bit was the museum. Getting through there the sneaky way with Sneak 1 is a bitch.

Allow me to retroactively frustrate you further: you could have tranced everyone and they wouldn't know you were there~

In fact, Dominate 1 is the best stealth skill in the game.

But yeah. The way the game is setup you can easily get away with only investing in combat by the time you reach Holywood.

 

[Azrael the cat]

Are kidding? You can dominate his minions and watch them killing Tzimisce for you.

Yes and no. That was one of my tactics, but the domination did not work every time. The minions resisted it quite often actually, so relying on that alone wasn't possible.

You can cheese the meatballs by crouching. Their first attack will always miss. Easy bossfight.

You can also cheese the meatballs by having the auto-shotgun and decent firearms skill.

 

[an Administrator]

Looking at the list of classic titles that I've missed, i decided it's the time to give VTMB a try.

I started with a Toreador, pumping up all those social skills to get all the cool lines available.

The game has a terrible combat system. Encounters are so easy. I managed to beat Tzimisce and his minions in sewers with my Katana while i just had two points in melee skill. Just used Celerity and hacked them to pieces! Feels like it's pointless to put points in combat skills at all.
Stealth mechanics are not really good to be honest, enemies are literally blind!

The game shines brightly when it comes to characters, story and voice acting. I found the level design in Malkavain Mansion fantastic. Even though it still suffered from the lack of challenge in encounters, it was beautifully detailed. Riddles and creepy pieces of lore scattered over the mansion created a nice atmosphere. Reminded me of an old horror game i played when i was a kid, named Suffering. Atmosphere is one of the brightness things in this game. The creepy haunted hotel was also a fine example of this.

Also it really impressed me that this game has such detailed facial animations. That's really strange for a game made in 2004. Some big titles in these years still can't compete!

Also it would be cool if we could force Heather into prostitution and collected the money

 

[Wesp5]

Just used Celerity and hacked them to pieces! Feels like it's pointless to put points in combat skills at all.

Celerity is a very powerful discipline that balances bad combat skills nicely. I used it much when I played my Firearms Toreador!

Stealth mechanics are not really good to be honest, enemies are literally blind!

Yeah. I tried to improve that a bit in the plus Unofficial Patch, but in the original game you were "invisible" already at Stealth 6.

Also it really impressed me that this game has such detailed facial animations. That's really strange for a game made in 2004. Some big titles in these years still can't compete!

Indeed. I think I never saw better animations afterwards, except for HL2 and episodes which basically uses the same engine.

 

[Old One]

I'm in the middle of a new Tremere game with the UP 9.6 Final Patch Plus, and I have to give you credit, wesp, this version is a lot better than the last one I tried (I think that was 9.5 beta). You've gotten a lot of criticism here on the Codex, but you've listened to the complaints when they were valid, and improved many of the problem areas.

You've managed to restore the "velociraptor scare" to the natural history museum, which was the main complaint I had about adding the outdoor area. Good job.

The guy in Santa Monica waiting for his car to be towed is much better. It makes more sense now.

The maze in Grout's mansion is really good. I like it. The only criticism I have is that, if you choose to go that way, I believe it disrupts the order of Grout's recorded messages because you miss out on one or two of them. There's probably a way to fix this that isn't too hard. I'm still going to do a Ventrue game next, so I'll keep an eye on it when I go through the mansion again.

Have you changed the camera during the Voerman sisters' final argument? It seems different, and I didn't like the change.

Still, this is the best version of the Plus Patch I've tried so far, so kudos to you.

 

[Wesp5]

The only criticism I have is that, if you choose to go that way, I believe it disrupts the order of Grout's recorded messages because you miss out on one or two of them.

You miss out one message, which is just a few steps down and easy to find without returning to the cellar.

Have you changed the camera during the Voerman sisters' final argument?

I don't think so. Also as a late Christmas present find the first beta of the Unoffical Patch 9.7 as usual on
The Patches Scrolls: http://www.patches-scrolls.de/patch/4647/7/74080

Version Changelog:
------------------

v9.7 28.12.2016
----
+Restored Chateau Hotel to ending, thanks EntenSchreck and Psycho-A.
+Swapped clone Brujah at solo ending with Toreador for male Brujah.
+ Made Gary gift different bloodpacks and fixed missing Kathayan bug.
+Stopped shaking Malkavian lines in Ocean House and at observatory.
+ Made crypt ghosts vanish and added missing door to Chinese Theatre.
+Fixed map details, cleaned files and updated SDK, thanks Psycho-A.
+Removed Lotus Blossom patron with bad shadow and fixed green drips.
Switched badly fixed missing Tommy line with better fitting float.
Fixed Kilpatrick's line making it possible to restart Carson quest.
Recreated floats and subtitles, thanks miracle.flame and Psycho-A.
Fixed four level holes at the Ocean House and one in Venture Tower.
Mirrored SM area maps and improved details of others, thanks IanW.
Fixed unbalanced XP of Bad Luck Farmer quest and minor text issues.
Corrected Luca, Damsel, Bertram, Gary and Skelter dialogue issues.
Removed confusing left over corpse and gone cars in parking garage.
Fixed Zhao exploit and walkthrough errors, thanks to sunsmountain.
Corrected lip-sync of prostitutes in cemetery and her dialogue bug.
Improved Empire Hotel mafia TV room sound switch and music radius.
Disabled bump mapping option because of issues with improved water.
Fixed Nadia sequence, frozen zombies and Ming endgame camera shot.
Repaired bad icons and flickering for upper Venture tower elevator.

 

[Jazz_]

Hey Wesp, what's the name of the mod being developed that will add new areas, quests, etc? You wrote about it some time ago but I can't seem to find the post anymore.

 

[an Administrator]

Replaying the game i noticed some vampire(Sabbat?) in Santa Monica that disappears in dark clouds when you approach him
What was that?

 

[Wesp5]

Hey Wesp, what's the name of the mod being developed that will add new areas, quests, etc?

This would be the Bloodlines Prelude, a prequel of the original game. The new map in the UP 9.7 will be more important in it !

 

[Wesp5]

Replaying the game i noticed some vampire(Sabbat?) in Santa Monica that disappears in dark clouds when you approach him.

This is a hidden NPC called "Obfuscator". I restored him by fixing some triggers and suspect it's supposed to be the same guy that Nines kills later and a sign that the Sabbat is watching you.

 

[Old One]

Have you changed the camera during the Voerman sisters' final argument?

I don't think so.

Okay. It might be my imagination.

...find the first beta of the Unoffical Patch 9.7 as usual on
The Patches Scrolls: http://www.patches-scrolls.de/patch/4647/7/74080

D'oh! Must...fight...temptation to start over...

One thing I notice from my current Tremere game - and I don't see any mention of it in the changelog - is that Lily is mad at me after she returns to the beach, and I have no idea why. I even started my Ventrue game and advanced it to that point to see what would happen, and she wasn't mad at him. She doesn't like my Tremere for some reason. I didn't con Copper out of any money or send him to his death, either.

Is the green "slow" effect from Andrei's ogres in the sewers permanent? I got hit by one of those green balls they throw and I waited five minutes and it still hadn't gone away. Eventually I did what I expect everyone else will do: I re-loaded. I like the idea of increasing the duration, but the setting in 9.6 Final is too long.

You miss out one message, which is just a few steps down and easy to find without returning to the cellar.

You could place a duplicate in the maze, perhaps. That way no backtracking would be required.

Anyway, I think you're headed in the right direction with the changes you're making lately.

 

[Wesp5]

One thing I notice from my current Tremere game - and I don't see any mention of it in the changelog - is that Lily is mad at me after she returns to the beach, and I have no idea why.

The patch changed nothing there but she gets angry if you ask for money to stay silent.

Is the green "slow" effect from Andrei's ogres in the sewers permanent?

Normally not, but sometimes it happens which is a bug we can't fix.

You could place a duplicate in the maze, perhaps.

I thought about that, but then people looking around would find the double. It should be possible to kill the outside one if people are deep inside the maze, so maybe this could happen in an update.

 

[laclongquan]

Looking at the list of classic titles that I've missed, i decided it's the time to give VTMB a try.

I started with a Toreador, pumping up all those social skills to get all the cool lines available.

The game has a terrible combat system. Encounters are so easy. I managed to beat Tzimisce and his minions in sewers with my *Katana* while i just had two points in melee skill. Just used Celerity and hacked them to pieces! Feels like it's pointless to put points in combat skills at all.
Stealth mechanics are not really good to be honest, enemies are literally blind!

How in the nine hell do you get katana before china town?

Of course combat is easy if you get second best blade in game to fight early stage's boss. Is that any achievement to boast?

 

[an Administrator]

How in the nine hell do you get katana before china town?

My bad, it was Shin Gunto. Got it from that Asian vampire in Santa Monica

 

[laclongquan]

And let me guess, for such a weapon to be available at 1st area...

Dont tell me...

Ultimate Patch, aka wesp's mod, right?

 

[Wesp5]

And let me guess, for such a weapon to be available at 1st area...

Dont tell me...

Ultimate Patch, aka wesp's mod, right?

Yes, and that sword is hardly better than a knife:
Shin Gunto: "SkillRequirement" "5", "BaseLethality" "11", "Dmg" "2 Lethal Close_Combat_Melee DMG_SLASH"
Knife: "SkillRequirement" "4", "BaseLethality" "9", "Dmg" "2 Lethal Close_Combat_Melee DMG_SLASH"

But probably you prefer the immersion breaking weapons-disappearing-before-your-eyes or hero-isn't-able-to-get-an-enemy-weapon-out-of-his-dead-hands approach. I don't! Honestly the problem here is Celerity, which is quite overpowered at high levels. As is almost every other discipline, after all your vampire is to be a supernatural bad ass !

 

[laclongquan]

All skills are powerful, it's nothing news~ Once you know what you are doing you dont even need more advanced weapon, which mean giving them better one straight out of tutorial is frankly pandering to couch potatoes.
Do you know why you shouldnt give that sword? Because the game do force players to buy a better handgun, or a rifle, to deal with The Meatballs and 1st Boss. Shotgun or police gun just doesnt cut it unless you play a really masochist style. It's a game balance issue.
Same reason why players shouldnt find a fireaxe at the Ocean Hotel. You have to scrape and save and fork out serious money to buy one if you plan for a melee style.

 

[Wesp5]

Do you know why you shouldnt give that sword? Because the game do force players to buy a better handgun, or a rifle, to deal with The Meatballs and 1st Boss. Shotgun or police gun just doesnt cut it unless you play a really masochist style. It's a game balance issue.

I'm aware of this. But then Troika should have given that guy a knife or something to keep it realistic! Also as shown the sword isn't much good and the fireaxe isn't much better either. Myself, I never bought any weapons and had no difficulty playing a firearms Toreador.

You have to scrape and save and fork out serious money to buy one if you plan for a melee style.

This is not a good argument as when going melee you hardly need any money at all compared to buying ammonition.

 

[Prime Junta]

I had mountains of cash anyway, last time I played a boomstick vamp.

 

[thesheeep]

Balance > immersion

Immersion > balance