Revisiting VtM: Bloodlines

[Lacrymas]

There are only two VtM games, Redemption is "isometric" and Bloodlines is first/third person, so there isn't an established "tradition". I wouldn't mind either, but it will be different genres, isometric would most likely have you playing an entire coterie, while first/third person would be more likely to be only the PC. You can obviously make it isometric single-PC or party-based first/third person, but the other way around is more likely. I don't care either way, just make a good VtM game.

 

[fantadomat]

The first game is third person.

 

[Lacrymas]

Not in the way we define "third-person". Mass Effect is third-person, as well as Bloodlines' third-person mode, but those are completely different than VtM:R and I wouldn't call it third-person. Not to mention that third-person games are usually action titles where you directly control your character. It's not as "top-down-y" as Baldur's Gate, obviously, but it has more in common with "isometric" games than third-person ones.

 

[Alexios]

If a new VtM come out in a few years, would you people prefer it Isometric or First/Person? What studio could manage to do it? I think Obsidian is the most probable

It should be either third person or a third person/first person mix like Bloodlines. I would be pretty disappointed if it was isometric in the style of Obsidian's isometric games. Much of what made Bloodlines great was the voice acting, and I would be afraid that VA would be nixed if the next game were isometric.

 

[fantadomat]

Third person and isometrics are camera angles not game genres. Third person-looking from above the back,isometric-looking from divine view aka from the top.

 

[fantadomat]

If a new VtM come out in a few years, would you people prefer it Isometric or First/Person? What studio could manage to do it? I think Obsidian is the most probable

It should be either third person or a third person/first person mix like Bloodlines. I would be pretty disappointed if it was isometric in the style of Obsidian's isometric games. Much of what made Bloodlines great was the voice acting, and I would be afraid that VA would be nixed if the next game were isometric.

Also the third person did add to the atmosphere.

 

[Jason Liang]

I don't think you could get the right horror vibe with isometric.

 

[Multidirectional]

First person Deus Ex-like is the only way to go if you wanna attempt making another VTM game, otherwise

 

[fantadomat]

First person Deus Ex-like is the only way to go if you wanna attempt making another VTM game, otherwise

They could make it like CoD shooter,vampire have one of the best zombie wave shooter level.

 

[Jason Liang]

VtM games are centered around story. There shouldn't be much focus on combat. So that's a tricky balance that Bloodlines somewhat managed to pull off- how to make you feel like a powerful vampire without making gameplay too combat-centric. Even in the PnP, actual combat is kind of disruptive. There are only so many times before being ambushed by a Sabbat war party gets old after all.

Yes, vampires have enemies, including other vampires. But it would be absurd if a WoD vampire spends every night fighting werewolves, kuejin and Hunters.

So a VtM gameplay needs to be focused around things like stealth, gathering information, politicking (c&c), exploration.

 

[Valtiel]

If a new VtM come out in a few years, would you people prefer it Isometric or First/Person? What studio could manage to do it? I think Obsidian is the most probable

Isn't in the making or something? I remember seeing trailer about such game during the e3 period. Answer to your question, third/first person as rest of the games. Still wouldn't pass the topdown one to.

I guess you refer to Vampyr from dontnod, which I think has very little rpg mechanics, and is focused on a single pre-defined character where you can only change the outcome of the story. I was more interested in a licensed game, i like very much all the clan stuff and I would love to see a modern iteration of bloodlines, where it's possibile to choose from every clan.

 

[Prime Junta]

I guess you refer to Vampyr from dontnod, which I think has very little rpg mechanics, and is focused on a single pre-defined character where you can only change the outcome of the story. I was more interested in a licensed game, i like very much all the clan stuff and I would love to see a modern iteration of bloodlines, where it's possibile to choose from every clan.

VtM is just so quintessentially nineties. You'd have to reinvent it somehow, which is a tough act to pull off after Twilight ruined vampires for everybody.

 

[Lacrymas]

Bram Stoker would say that all modern versions of vampires, including VtM, are bastardizations that miss the point. Not that it matters what he would say, what he had to do he already did. Twilight will only influence other vampire fiction as much as the creators let it. There is a place for WoD's vampires in the current year, many things have lost their edge for some reason, so I think the world is ready. Not only ready, but needing it.

 

[Western]

If a new VtM come out in a few years, would you people prefer it Isometric or First/Person? What studio could manage to do it? I think Obsidian is the most probable

If it's party coterie based then isometric, otherwise similar 1st/3rd person of Bloodlines.

 

[fantadomat]

Bram Stoker would say that all modern versions of vampires, including VtM, are bastardizations that miss the point. Not that it matters what he would say, what he had to do he already did. Twilight will only influence other vampire fiction as much as the creators let it. There is a place for WoD's vampires in the current year, many things have lost their edge for some reason, so I think the world is ready. Not only ready, but needing it.

The world never gets what it needs. Also the vampire myth came from Bulgaria.

 

[SCO]

I honestly don't like some of the things Wesp is doing in UP+ to avoid combat. A simple example is on that part where Therese sends you to the dinner and you get ambushed by gangers. He decided that this part 'had' to have a non-combat, non-stealth persuasion (or intimidation, dominate and dementation) solution, so his idea was to 'persuade' the gangbanger leader with less that appropriate dialog (gated by the sound files i guess). In context, it's actually very unbelievable, which is something most of the original persuade dialogs avoided. Convincing a cop you're here to work on computers: fine. Convincing a hired assassin that was determined to kill to let you go... for no reason at all. And he responds with 'i'll let you go this time' or whatever stolen line from stealth loss it was? Not fine, and shatters suspension of disbelief. Most of the extra quests or 'restorations' are of similar below average quality.

As a aside for this, i quite like the 'warrens alternative' on the Clan quest mod, because i suggested it as a logical alternative to the sewers and it works well enough... except for the voice acting on Tung for the quest, which despite best efforts (voice splicing, reusing lines) feels artificial (i'd also prefer if the 'go to the warrens' quest didn't have a big fat hint of the alternative, but it appears using your brain for alternatives is a lost art).

As things are, sadly i can see me using only plain UP in the future if this sort of halfbaked extensions continue to proliferate. I don't have anything much against new areas or new quests, but when things get changed in the original quests, badly, so that the dialog is out of place or the situation is unbelievable to accommodate a playstyle, i draw the line.

Not the only thing either. Just a while ago, there was a 'All you base are belong to us' joke in the original code of the prince ending (that dominated bomber) that he 'restored' by getting a youtube song over the text and had to be be convinced to restrict to malkavians - couldn't be convinced that was left out on purpose. So things that were obviously left out for good reason (who besides sad nerds even remembers Zero Wing), get 'restored'.

 

[Wesp5]

Convincing a hired assassin that was determined to kill to let you go... for no reason at all.

That way was suggested by players who want more peaceful alternatives to fights which Troika often did not supply. Also I believe that there are a lot of Persuasion options in the game that would only work because of a vampire's typical Charisma. Just take your example , who would believe Malkavians are there to fix the network looking like they do in the game?

I don't have anything much against new areas or new quests, but when things get changed in the original quests, badly, so that the dialog is out of place or the situation is unbelievable to accommodate a playstyle, i draw the line.

Then you can either install the basic patch or just don't take any of the alternate solutions. There is only so much you can do with the voice-overs the game provides...

Just a while ago, there was a 'All you base are belong to us' joke in the original code of the prince ending (that dominated bomber) that he 'restored' by getting a youtube song over the text and had to be be convinced to restrict to malkavians - couldn't be convinced that was left out on purpose.

The song is correctly triggered and stopped inside the map and as an European I wasn't even aware of the connected meme. But it will indeed be Malkavian only soon!

 

[Zombra]

If a new VtM come out in a few years, would you people prefer it Isometric or First/Person? What studio could manage to do it? I think Obsidian is the most probable

I want Bloodlines 2; the basic format should follow Bloodlines as closely as possible.

There's no predicting who could actually pull it off as many of the dark themes of the original would be unthinkable in today's politically correct market. I fear Obsidian (and any other "name" developer) would give us a version too sanitized. On the other hand, edgy indies trying to be edgy would also likely be awful. Whoever it was would need to have a small art team and a small writing team; a committee could never do it right. But in any case it would be a matter of lightning striking, with an artist and writer who "got it". Really if I had my way I'd see 5 games like this made by different studios - I'd expect 4 to be horrible but the 5th one would find us our new writer.

 

[gaussgunner]

Also the third person did add to the atmosphere.

DAT AAAAATMOSPHERE

 

[ERYFKRAD]

Atmost spheres, more like.

 

[Wesp5]

But in any case it would be a matter of lightning striking, with an artist and writer who "got it".

I think Brian Mitsoda is the man as he did almost all the writing in the original game and I know he is interested in any sequel and has connections to Obsidian and Paradox! But I suspect the latter will first see how the new werewolf game is doing before they try themselves on a vampire game that must live up to Bloodlines.

SCO (are you the same SCO from Planet Vampire?): I checked the thugs in the diner and you are right that they are a little bit off right now. Not the option itself or the voice-over, but rather it's too obvious the player knows what happens next. I'll try to fix that by turning the player answers into a more reasonable direction.

 

[Latelistener]

I don't think it would be that easy, considering why he left Obsidian in the first place.
Rik Schaffer is also would not mind working on a vampire game, but in his case, it's much easier.

 

[Zombra]

I think Brian Mitsoda is the man as he did almost all the writing in the original game and I know he is interested in any sequel and has connections to Obsidian and Paradox! But I suspect the latter will first see how the new werewolf game is doing before they try themselves on a vampire game that must live up to Bloodlines.

Mitsoda was indeed the "magical voice" behind Bloodlines' writing - but let's remember that was 13 years ago. He is a different man now; he's married, he's mellowed out some. Dead State has good writing, and it wasn't trying to be Bloodlines, but it shows a change in attitude. The overt sexualization in Bloodlines is part of what I love about it ... and you can't create work like that with your wife looking over your shoulder. Plus he's just older and his artistic priorities will have changed, which is fine. I'll still be excited to read his future work, but if he led Bloodlines 2, it likely wouldn't have the tension I want. I want a young, sexually frustrated lead writer and art team who let their fantasies leak onto the screen here and there. I want - forgive me - new blood.

 

[hello friend]

Imagine how creepy a nonpassing tranny vampire would be if you met one in real life.

 

[Lacrymas]

What kind of boring wife wouldn't let you create something like Bloodlines? Overtly sexual or no.