Revisiting VtM: Bloodlines

[Lithium Flower]

People are surprised at vampire homosexuality? When one of the first books dealing with the modern version of vampires is literally about lesbians? Also, Tim Cain. I've read somewhere that Ash Rivers and Isaac were lovers at one point, or that Isaac was in love with Ash, but I've never been able to pick up on that, so it may just be a theory. I think Tommy is bi, I seem to recall being able to seduce him with a female char as well. It's also curious how anti-gay people are opposed to gay vampires, when vampires represent self-absorbed decadence and moral failing, the very same things they accuse gays of. The vampires in VtM aren't supposed to be "good people", that's ludicrous.

That is where you "poor me" self-described victims get it wrong. Most of what you call anti-homosexuals really don't give a rat's arse what you idiots do in the privacy of your own bedroom. We are just sick of you throwing it out there every chance you get. It is not healthy or normal to announce to perfect strangers less than 5 minutes after meeting them that you are homosexual, just as it is not healthy for heterosexuals to announce their sexual orientation to perfect strangers within that 5 minutes.
We also are sick and tired of the fact you idiots push it into every facet of everything you can lay your hands on and claim it is reality. No. Reality is that you make up less than 3% of the population so stop trying to insert yourself into 100% of games.
Lastly, we are also sick of the fact you hold us responsible for bad things that happened to homosexuals years ago, before some of us were even alive. I absolutely REFUSE to take responsibility for something that someone else somewhere and sometime in history did. I will only take responsiblity for what *I* have done. Trying to hold me responsible for something that happened in a nation half way around the world 40 years ago is a surefire way to ensure that I oppose your agenda till the end of time.

I don't care if this comes off as white knighting, this is just too stupid.

Lacrymas: "Homos are not out of place in VtM and neither is their behavior glorified"

You: "You are a "poor me" self-described victim. You throw your sexuality at me the first chance you get. You expect me to take responsibilities for bad things that happened to homosexuals a long time ago."

Like, my dude, you are showing such a low level of intellect that I'm thinking maybe you'd be better off being gay so that there is little to no chance of your genes being passed on. That is if you are actually being serious and not just a tryhard troll.

Your response had nothing to do with what Lacrymas actualy wrote, it was a complete non sequitur. You already had a notion of the type of person they are - a hedonistic homosexual trying to corrupt good God-fearing people like you with their gayness while simultaneously playing the victim and expecting you to take responsibility for his failures, or whatever - and you had a knee-jerk spasm all over your keyboard despite the fact that nothing in the original post suggested that Lacrymas was in fact that type of person.

The irony is that your main problem seems to be with people obsessing over their homosexuality, whereas based on your response the only person here seriously obsessing over the issue is you. Indicative of sexual trauma, perhaps?

 

[Jimmious]

Oh wow look here, a scholar! Thank you for explaining me things that I can't understand, oh mighty one.

Now, I claim that undead humanoids that stay "alive" due to evil, unearthly powers can do any form of sexual act they deem interesting simply because they can - while the dude that "asked me to prove it" implies that they follow some moral code that wouldn't allow them to apparently have gay sex specifically because "ew that's degenerate"... while simultaneously some of them decapitate human bodies and drink blood from their eye sockets or whatever.
Why should I prove my point and not he as his makes less sense? Who gives a fuck if he "asked me to prove it"? Did he provide any proof of his claims in the first place and I have to provide mine? What are we doing here, writing a paper for some scientific magazine?

The fact that you show disdain for scholarly pursuits explains perfectly why you are what you are: a person who throws crap everywhere and hope it sticks.
You made the claim that the game has openness. He asked you to prove it. He claimed nothing nor implied anything. You, however, did.
Also, you might want to look up something called "null hypothesis".

My "disdain for scholarly pursuits" was placed there to indicate that you and Goral don't deserve such an effort from my part, but I guess your thorough understanding of the universe didn't lead you to that assumption.
Even so, if you try to notice the examples that people give constantly in the thread you'll understand why there were so many agreeing with me.
On the other hand, if you expect me to search through WoD books to find you specific examples of gay sex, sorry, you can search for your material on your own. I'm pretty sure there's a lot of it.

 

[Lambach]

On the other hand, if you expect me to search through WoD books to find you specific examples of gay sex, sorry, you can search for your material on your own. I'm pretty sure there's a lot of it.

There's very little sex of any kind in the VtM books. Maybe there's more of it in those retarded splatbooks written in the late 90's and early 00's, but nobody read those.

 

[Jimmious]

On the other hand, if you expect me to search through WoD books to find you specific examples of gay sex, sorry, you can search for your material on your own. I'm pretty sure there's a lot of it.

There's very little sex of any kind in the VtM books. Maybe there's more of it in those retarded splatbooks written in the late 90's and early 00's, but nobody read those.

I also don't remember any sex indeed regardless of what was implied

 

[Kev Inkline]

On the other hand, if you expect me to search through WoD books to find you specific examples of gay sex, sorry, you can search for your material on your own. I'm pretty sure there's a lot of it.

There's very little sex of any kind in the VtM books. Maybe there's more of it in those retarded splatbooks written in the late 90's and early 00's, but nobody read those.

I also don't remember any sex indeed regardless of what was implied

Don't remember having sex IRL? You're either a typical codexer of which Crispy or warpig is a prime example, or it could be just due to rohypnol intake.

Are you butthurt? Literally, not figuratively.

 

[Wesp5]

For example, the Aug no longer does pitifully low damage, which is a reasonable change, but the aforementioned aggravated claws (remember that aggravated damage = magic and IIRC fire and these are just the same mundane claws Grout's ghouls use) are probably not so reasonable.

The AUG does the original damage since a few patch versions now as this was an early change making it a bit overpowered. It does more damage when zoomed though which is the same way the zoomed rifles are handled. The aggravated claws were already included by Troika so you need to ask them how they explain the damage. I just made them available as I hate evaporating weapons even more !

Now, the inclusion of a homosexual background is harmless compared to the above, but I believe it would help to have a something like a vision statement for what the Plus Patch is and should be.

The plus patch is my vision and I'm a kind of completionist. Also it's enough work to keep basic and plus versions seperated, a lot of leftovers or bugs were already caused by splitting them in the first place! It would be impossible to further seperate the plus patch into different versions because who is gonna say what restoration should belong where?

 

[Lithium Flower]

The AUG does the original damage since a few patch versions now as this was an early change making it a bit overpowered. It does more damage when zoomed though which is the same way the zoomed rifles are handled. The aggravated claws were already included by Troika so you need to ask them how they explain the damage. I just made them available as I hate evaporating weapons even more !

Thank you for clarifying. Re: claws, that comes back to the question of which restorations fit in Troika's intended vision. Some cut content was never intended to be restored, after all. This is why a simple vision statement could be a good idea to manage people's expectations. You've made it clear that this is ultimately your take on the game in this thread, but the average poster on Planet Vampire or Moddb might have an entirely different idea of what the Plus patch is supposed to be.

The plus patch is my vision and I'm a kind of completionist. Also it's enough work to keep basic and plus versions seperated, a lot of leftovers or bugs were already caused by splitting them in the first place! It would be impossible to further seperate the plus patch into different versions because who is gonna say what restoration should belong where?

Yeah, I wouldn't doubt that creating extra versions of the patch would take an amount of effort that probably won't be justified as different people would take issue with different changes. I would agree that in the ideal world it would be great to have extra versions, but we only have so much time in the real one, eh?

I do appreciate the incredible amount of work you've put into the Patch. I even use the Plus version myself.

 

[warpig]

On the other hand, if you expect me to search through WoD books to find you specific examples of gay sex, sorry, you can search for your material on your own. I'm pretty sure there's a lot of it.

There's very little sex of any kind in the VtM books. Maybe there's more of it in those retarded splatbooks written in the late 90's and early 00's, but nobody read those.

I also don't remember any sex indeed regardless of what was implied

Don't remember having sex IRL? You're either a typical codexer of which Crispy or warpig is a prime example, or it could be just due to rohypnol intake.

Are you butthurt? Literally, not figuratively.

Fuck you for comparing me to creepy. I will remember that.

 

[Kev Inkline]

I also don't remember any sex indeed regardless of what was implied

Don't remember having sex IRL? You're either a typical codexer of which Crispy or warpig is a prime example, or it could be just due to rohypnol intake.

Are you butthurt? Literally, not figuratively.

Fuck you for comparing me to creepy. I will remember that.

You are like the two sides of a mirror that's never been looked at.

 

[Zombra]

Most of what you call anti-homosexuals really don't give a rat's arse what you idiots do in the privacy of your own bedroom.

What about the privacy of my own character sheet?

 

[Cael]

What about the privacy of my own character sheet?

As long as you don't make others around the table uncomfortable, you can be haemaphrodite for all I care.

 

[Modron]

What about the privacy of my own character sheet?

As long as you don't make others around the table uncomfortable, you can be haemaphrodite for all I care.

But can you be a zen archer?

 

[Cael]

I'm not gay.

Which makes it even worse because you presume to speak for homosexuals. If the vote for same sex marriage fails here it is because of people like you, not because others hate homosexuals. Get it through your thick skull: people do NOT like being preached to or made to feel ashamed for having an opinion. Learn the lessons of Clinton v Trump and Brexit and learn to debate and discuss or shut the fuck up. Your holier-than-thou shit only makes things WORSE for those people trying to gain acceptance.

As someone from a minority background, I should know. Stop speaking on my behalf, you arrogant prick! I do not need your ubermench protection.

 

[santino27]

People are surprised at vampire homosexuality? When one of the first books dealing with the modern version of vampires is literally about lesbians? Also, Tim Cain.

Holy shit, Tim is a vampire? /s

 

[fantadomat]

Cuck....again.

 

[Prime Junta]

As long as you don't make others around the table uncomfortable, you can be haemaphrodite for all I care.

See, this is the thing I don't get. On the one hand, you lot yell about special snowflakes offended at the faintest of provocations, but on the other hand you become "uncomfortable" about the barest whiff of gay anywhere. Who exactly is the snowflake here? 'Cuz from where I'm at this looks a lot like a being-more-offended competition which is really fucking dumb.

 

[Cael]

See, this is the thing I don't get. On the one hand, you lot yell about special snowflakes offended at the faintest of provocations, but on the other hand you become "uncomfortable" about the barest whiff of gay anywhere. Who exactly is the snowflake here? 'Cuz from where I'm at this looks a lot like a being-more-offended competition which is really fucking dumb.

Incorrect. I did not quantify the "amount of gay" (as it were) for the very simple reason that each table will have different tolerances.
What I do not like is not limited to RPG or computer games, but the insistence EVERYWHERE and in every medium that homosexuals get special treatment. They must be represented. Blah, blah, blah. The pro-homosexual activists (which are, ironically, rarely homosexuals themselves) pack attack any RPG or anything, really, that do not pander to the homosexual cause. This is totalitarianism and bullying.
Part of the visceral reaction you are seeing is a response to the homosexual issue we have over here and as I said before, if the question of same sex marriage fails, the fault lies SOLELY on the pro-homosexual activists and their bullying, their hate and their intolerance. People are SICK of being preached at. They are SICK of being told what to do on pain of being defamed, their cars and homes vandalised and physically assaulted.
As I have said before, I don't have a view one way or the other about homosexuals. Your sexual orientation is your business and whether you are heterosexual or homosexual, guess what? I don't need or want to know about it. But I will NOT accept the kind of bullying that the SJWs regularly indulge in. As a result, my NULL vote has become a NO vote. The homosexuals are basically collateral damage, and for that, I apologise to them. It is not their fault. It is the fault of usurping non-homosexuals speaking on their behalf, often without their permission and without their support.

 

[Wesp5]

Re: claws, that comes back to the question of which restorations fit in Troika's intended vision.

Speaking of which, the handle claws are of Kuei-Jin origin intended for fighting vampires. I bet there is a way that they can make them deal aggravated damage! I have more problems with accepting those of Grout's ghouls, but again, maybe ghoul claws can deal aggravated damage anyway? I asked my favorite modeler and she told me the claws are part of the ghouls themselves and not seperate weapons like the handle claws.

Some cut content was never intended to be restored, after all.

We can't know that, but I'm pretty sure some content was not intended to be restored in the way that I did it. My overall view on this is when developers don't intend for something to be used, they need to clean up their files ! Which in case of Bloodlines would have been really easy, as almost all of the unused content is concentrated in one single VPK archive. As if they wanted to have it available for later in case of updates...

This is why a simple vision statement could be a good idea to manage people's expectations.

As I wrote, my vision is to include everything I can find that is possible and makes even a little bit of sense. And I hope I'm about done with that !

 

[Zombra]

What I do not like is not limited to RPG or computer games, but the insistence EVERYWHERE and in every medium that homosexuals get special treatment. They must be represented.

To be clear: so you're angry that there is a space for sexual orientation on the character sheet?

 

[Cael]

To be clear: so you're angry that there is a space for sexual orientation on the character sheet?

Go attend reading comprehension classes.

 

[RK47]

Wesp5 Please mod in hand grenade

 

[Lacrymas]

Which makes it even worse because you presume to speak for homosexuals. If the vote for same sex marriage fails here it is because of people like you, not because others hate homosexuals. Get it through your thick skull: people do NOT like being preached to or made to feel ashamed for having an opinion. Learn the lessons of Clinton v Trump and Brexit and learn to debate and discuss or shut the fuck up. Your holier-than-thou shit only makes things WORSE for those people trying to gain acceptance.

As someone from a minority background, I should know. Stop speaking on my behalf, you arrogant prick! I do not need your ubermench protection.

I'm not straight, either. See, you keep presuming things, yet accuse others of doing so. I did discuss things, even scientifically. It's objective fact that Carmilla by Le Fanu features a lesbian vampire as one of its main characters and it predates even Dracula. It's objective fact that there is homosexuaity in the source material for VtM, it's objective fact that vampires represent aristocratic detachment and parasitism, narcissistic decadence and moral failing. You are the one who jumps to (the wrong) conclusions and starts preaching without any provocation. Also, just to be clear, "exterminate the gays" is not a valid opinion to have. Neither is "they are unnatural abominations that nature itself is against", which is built on another presumption, one which thinks it knows what a non-sentient abstract concept 'wants'. So maybe people are right to make you ashamed for holding those opinions. Maybe you should get it through your thick skull that not every opinion is equally valid and justified.

 

[Latelistener]

I'm surprised to see that half of the people with much older registration date act like they belong on ResetEra.
I'll just convince myself that owners of these accounts sold them to NeoFAG refugees.
Unsubscribed, before I lost my faith on Codex completely.

 

[Delterius]

but the insistence EVERYWHERE

this is a mod for one of the gayest games made by a gay man and founded on flaming bdsm themes and fiction

are you ok

 

[Cael]

I'm not straight, either. See, you keep presuming things, yet accuse others of doing so. I did discuss things, even scientifically. It's objective fact that Carmilla by Le Fanu features a lesbian vampire as one of its main characters and it predates even Dracula. It's objective fact that there is homosexuaity in the source material for VtM, it's objective fact that vampires represent aristocratic detachment and parasitism, narcissistic decadence and moral failing. You are the one who jumps to (the wrong) conclusions and starts preaching without any provocation. Also, just to be clear, "exterminate the gays" is not a valid opinion to have. Neither is "they are unnatural abominations that nature itself is against", which is built on another presumption, one which thinks it knows what a non-sentient abstract concept 'wants'. So maybe people are right to make you ashamed for holding those opinions. Maybe you should get it through your thick skull that not every opinion is equally valid and justified.

Another one that needs to attend reading comprehension classes.