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Revisiting VtM: Bloodlines

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The sisters care what you tell to the Prince, just like Mercurio does. If you keep quiet they later receive some kind of political recognition and are happy about it. I never tried blabbing about it to Prince, so I don't know what happens if you do.
 

Kyl Von Kull

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Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
The sisters care what you tell to the Prince, just like Mercurio does. If you keep quiet they later receive some kind of political recognition and are happy about it. I never tried blabbing about it to Prince, so I don't know what happens if you do.

Also, obviously there's plenty of C&C when it comes to determining how the sisters of Janus end up.
 

Bester

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Has anyone revisited the idea of porting the game to a non-shitty engine now that CCP is a nonfactor?

Yes, the guy behind the original attempt that was stopped by CCP tried it again with Paradox, but Activision seems to have no interest in this. Bloodlines still sells quite well after all this time and someone would need to invest money in this with unclear profits...
Link to his website where he reports progress?
 

Wesp5

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Has anyone revisited the idea of porting the game to a non-shitty engine now that CCP is a nonfactor?

Yes, the guy behind the original attempt that was stopped by CCP tried it again with Paradox, but Activision seems to have no interest in this. Bloodlines still sells quite well after all this time and someone would need to invest money in this with unclear profits...
Link to his website where he reports progress?

There is no official info on any webpage. We had some private conversations on Planet Vampire because he knows my patch, even helped with some of the new maps, and we stayed in touch because his remake would have used a lot from the patch. The newest info I found is a year old from his Facebook page: https://www.facebook.com/projectvaulderie/
 

JBro

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Has anyone revisited the idea of porting the game to a non-shitty engine now that CCP is a nonfactor?

Yes, the guy behind the original attempt that was stopped by CCP tried it again with Paradox, but Activision seems to have no interest in this. Bloodlines still sells quite well after all this time and someone would need to invest money in this with unclear profits...
Link to his website where he reports progress?

There is no official info on any webpage. We had some private conversations on Planet Vampire because he knows my patch, even helped with some of the new maps, and we stayed in touch because his remake would have used a lot from the patch. The newest info I found is a year old from his Facebook page: https://www.facebook.com/projectvaulderie/

Tell him to just finish it without telling anyone. Activision doesn't give a shit and maybe Paradox won't bother with a cease and desist.
 

a cut of domestic sheep prime

Guest
Tell him to just finish it without telling anyone. Activision doesn't give a shit and maybe Paradox won't bother with a cease and desist.
Yeah. Just release it anonymously. Too many projects die because the creators were publicity whoring with no discernible benefit other than being *slightly* internet famous.

They setup whole websites, newsfeeds, forums, release press statements...aaaaand it's dead.
 

Wesp5

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It's like she wanted the whole thing to fall apart.
She did.

Even if Ming-Xiao did, her answers as Nines were stupid. It almost looks to me as if Troika forgot to record dedicated lines for this encounter with the Nines voice-actor. The lines they used are very generic and most major characters had similar "emergency lines" recorded but mostly not used. I should know because I restored some of the cooler ones myself :)!
 
Last edited:

Wesp5

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Tell him to just finish it without telling anyone. Activision doesn't give a shit and maybe Paradox won't bother with a cease and desist.

The problem is that he wouldn't be able to do this as a fan-project with no addtional money or team members in the first place. I'm patching this game for over ten years now as a hobby and it's still not perfect, so how should any one person alone be able to completely remake it in a reasonable time frame besides having another job? Look at Black Mesa...
 

a cut of domestic sheep prime

Guest
so how should any one person alone be able to completely remake it in a reasonable time frame besides having another job? Look at Black Mesa...
Yeah, I guess spreading the word helps with that, but you can still just release it anonymously and never put your real name on it. Switch user and even mod names if you have to. Never have it be able to be traced back to you. E.g., stay Wesp5 and never <insert real name here>.
 

Wesp5

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Yeah, I guess spreading the word helps with that, but you can still just release it anonymously and never put your real name on it.

He could do that, but what I really meant is that alone he would never be able to remake the whole game at all in a resonable time...
 

Bester

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I already said it but it's a sad thing. On my own I could remake VTMB in UE4 in 2 years, I could mod the shit out of POE2 for little poe2 faggot lovers, but if I don't get paid as much as I'm getting paid on my job, then there's just no way to do it. And same thing applies to most modders.

And normal people can't pay that much for such niche games through Patreon, this isn't Skyrim.

Unless mod grants become a thing and Paradox themselves start paying modders, big mods are very unlikely to happen. And it's sad.
 

almondblight

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In no way did I say that railroading was "good". I said that railroading the main quest is common even among the best cRPGs and for understandable reasons because computers and programming are limited and when you add a new layer your extra work can increase exponentially.

Sure, there's a lot of railroading in RPGs and usually not that much C&C. The thing is, most don't force you to make a big mess that you then have to clean up. The ending of Fallout isn't breaking into Vault 13 to get the waterchip back and kill the Overseer. In Bloodlines the sequence of events is:

You: "Hey, I'm working for LaCroix right now, doing whatever he says."
Other factions: "No! LaCroix is evil and he has to be stopped. We can't let him get what he wants!"
You: "Hmm, good point. Maybe I shouldn't help him."
Other factions: "LOL, just kidding. Nah you better keep working hard to make sure LaCroix gets whatever he wants."

**After you spend the rest of the game getting almost everything LaCroix wants for him**

Other factions: "OMG now that LaCroix has gotten most of what he wanted you have to go and stop him ASAP!"

The whole thing feels extremely contrived.

Tung isn't their enemy, if you read Jeanette's diary you see that they even had intercourse ;). That was only Therese's paranoia! The same goes for Beckett who is a loner and wouldn't tell anyone about this. In contrary if you betray Strauss later on you'll miss one of the endings, so sometimes things do matter, but indeed not always...

It wasn't just her paranoia though. Tung and Jeanette at least ruined a real estate deal for her (the whole point behind the Ocean View quest). Tung also seems to be the other main vampire in Santa Monica.

Anyway, it was just odd that they tell you they'll kill you if you tell anyone, but you can immediately go out and blab about it to anyone who will listen to you with absolutely zero consequences (I didn't even know who Beckett was when I told him, I assumed he was a werewolf and possibly the slasher). It just underscored how meaningless your actions usually are in the game.
 

JBro

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Tell him to just finish it without telling anyone. Activision doesn't give a shit and maybe Paradox won't bother with a cease and desist.

The problem is that he wouldn't be able to do this as a fan-project with no addtional money or team members in the first place. I'm patching this game for over ten years now as a hobby and it's still not perfect, so how should any one person alone be able to completely remake it in a reasonable time frame besides having another job? Look at Black Mesa...

It's not a remake. It's a port to a different engine, like OpenMW or Daggerfall Unity.
 

gaussgunner

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You: "Hey, I'm working for LaCroix right now, doing whatever he says."
Other factions: "No! LaCroix is evil and he has to be stopped. We can't let him get what he wants!"
You: "Hmm, good point. Maybe I shouldn't help him."
Other factions: "LOL, just kidding. Nah you better keep working hard to make sure LaCroix gets whatever he wants."

**After you spend the rest of the game getting almost everything LaCroix wants for him**

Other factions: "OMG now that LaCroix has gotten most of what he wanted you have to go and stop him ASAP!"

The whole thing feels extremely contrived.

Yes. The main quest line is weak. The sidequests are better but you have to get off the railroad and hunt around for them. There are some pretty good characters & dialogue. And atmosphere. It's also cool how XP is awarded for getting things done, usually whether or not you kill anyone. I'm hard-pressed to think of a better RPG in those regards. The Witcher, maybe, in some ways, and Deus Ex for the main quest although that's railroaded as hell too, and obviously CRPGs for combat. Not that VtMB combat is bad, it's actually pretty good for an ARPG, there's just too much of it in the warrens and the endgame.
 

Cael

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It's also cool how XP is awarded for getting things done, usually whether or not you kill anyone. I'm hard-pressed to think of a better RPG in those regards.
That has nothing to do with Bloodlines, and everything to do with the White Wolf system. You can have a X-Files type game using the White Wolf system and get the same kind of XP rewards.

A lot of the things people like about Bloodlines is more because of the White Wolf system than Bloodlines itself. The fanbois simply do not know the difference and attribute a lot of them to Bloodlines, when it has really nothing to do with Bloodlines. It is like praising NWN2 for being a good game because of the way classes and XP worked when it is actually DnD 3.5 that you should be praising.
 

Kyl Von Kull

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Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
It's also cool how XP is awarded for getting things done, usually whether or not you kill anyone. I'm hard-pressed to think of a better RPG in those regards.
That has nothing to do with Bloodlines, and everything to do with the White Wolf system. You can have a X-Files type game using the White Wolf system and get the same kind of XP rewards.

A lot of the things people like about Bloodlines is more because of the White Wolf system than Bloodlines itself. The fanbois simply do not know the difference and attribute a lot of them to Bloodlines, when it has really nothing to do with Bloodlines. It is like praising NWN2 for being a good game because of the way classes and XP worked when it is actually DnD 3.5 that you should be praising.

Yet no one gives a flying fuck about VtM: Redemption. It’s hard to implement a pnp system well. Not everyone does a great job at making it work: witness D&D 3.5 combat in ToEE vs NWN2.


There is plenty of choice and consequence in Bloodlines, it’s just not epic plot changing C&C because you play as peon. It’s built into the lore that older/earlier generation vampires can mind control you. The railroaded structure is a flaw but it’s not inconsistent with the rest of the world they built. On a micro level, you have tons of opportunities to play things out in different ways, with plenty of reactivity for those decisions.

Also, I’ve never heard anyone else call this game poorly written, because it’s amazingly well written. You have a problem with the endgame structure, not the writing. That or you have awful taste.

Someone get a rope and some pitchforks.

:mob:
 

Cael

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It's also cool how XP is awarded for getting things done, usually whether or not you kill anyone. I'm hard-pressed to think of a better RPG in those regards.
That has nothing to do with Bloodlines, and everything to do with the White Wolf system. You can have a X-Files type game using the White Wolf system and get the same kind of XP rewards.

A lot of the things people like about Bloodlines is more because of the White Wolf system than Bloodlines itself. The fanbois simply do not know the difference and attribute a lot of them to Bloodlines, when it has really nothing to do with Bloodlines. It is like praising NWN2 for being a good game because of the way classes and XP worked when it is actually DnD 3.5 that you should be praising.

Yet no one gives a flying fuck about VtM: Redemption. It’s hard to implement a pnp system well. Not everyone does a great job at making it work: witness D&D 3.5 combat in ToEE vs NWN2.


There is plenty of choice and consequence in Bloodlines, it’s just not epic plot changing C&C because you play as peon. It’s built into the lore that older/earlier generation vampires can mind control you. The railroaded structure is a flaw but it’s not inconsistent with the rest of the world they built. On a micro level, you have tons of opportunities to play things out in different ways, with plenty of reactivity for those decisions.

Also, I’ve never heard anyone else call this game poorly written, because it’s amazingly well written. You have a problem with the endgame structure, not the writing. That or you have awful taste.

Someone get a rope and some pitchforks.

:mob:
It is absolute shite.

From the first seconds in the theatre, it was crap. Half the freaking game is overwraught, overly melodramatic and full of selfish complete idiots. That damned ex-actor what-his-name is a prime example.

There were some good moments, but many of the quests were pretty retarded and the actions of the main players completely inconsistent. LaCroix is a prime example. Strauss also has shades of it.

80% of the vampire population and their hanger-ons that you meet are needy little twerps but somehow, you, a newborn fledgling, can solve all their problems that they who out-experience and out-age you by hundreds are incapable of doing. Not even NWN2 does that. You actually have to work your way up to the truly world changing quests. Heck, you spend much of the first act in NWN2 running around and doing peon quests. Even the orc genocide run is because Casavir showed the way for you, not that NWN2 really kept track of the in-game number of days, unlike Bloodlines, which explicitly did. In Bloodlines, you are taking out stuff that has the primogen of entire clans quaking in their boots. As a one day old vampire.

Bloodlines can only wish it was half as well written as MotB, and it is deluded if it thinks it is anywhere near as good as Ultima 7.
 

JBro

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I knew this beloved cult classic was shite the first few seconds after starting the game. I'm so smart.
 

Kyl Von Kull

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Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
^
^^
^^^^
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Somebody give this man a parrot, por favor?

From the first seconds in the theatre, it was crap. Half the freaking game is overwraught, overly melodramatic and full of selfish complete idiots. That damned ex-actor what-his-name is a prime example.

There were some good moments, but many of the quests were pretty retarded and the actions of the main players completely inconsistent. LaCroix is a prime example. Strauss also has shades of it.

80% of the vampire population and their hanger-ons that you meet are needy little twerps but somehow, you, a newborn fledgling, can solve all their problems that they who out-experience and out-age you by hundreds are incapable of doing. Not even NWN2 does that. You actually have to work your way up to the truly world changing quests. Heck, you spend much of the first act in NWN2 running around and doing peon quests. Even the orc genocide run is because Casavir showed the way for you, not that NWN2 really kept track of the in-game number of days, unlike Bloodlines, which explicitly did. In Bloodlines, you are taking out stuff that has the primogen of entire clans quaking in their boots. As a one day old vampire.

Bloodlines can only wish it was half as well written as MotB, and it is deluded if it thinks it is anywhere near as good as Ultima 7.

Uhnn, where do I even begin? I suspect you may not understand people very well. If you don’t want overwrought and melodramatic characters, don’t buy a game about fucking vampires. It’s not a low-key, down-to-earth milieu.

The important badass vampires send you off to solve problems they could solve themselves? Let me ask you something: have you ever had a job? Seriously: you get these assignments because they are either risky or a pain in the ass. You play as the lowest man on the totem pole in the Camarilla. The important people get to tell you what to do. Of course they could solve this stuff on their own, but why would they want to when they can have a minion do it? Why would they take even the slightest risk when someone else will do their bidding? Worst case, you die and they have to do it themselves, or more likely, send a less disposable minion. You don’t get to be a powerful, ancient vampire by doing your own work.

Lacroix is an idiot? I think much of his too-clever-by-half nature was intentional. Certainly, there are many reasons why so many other vampires have no respect for the little prick.

It seems like many of your problems with Bloodlines would be solved if they simply forced you to go to sleep more often. Which is not an illegitimate complaint, but doesn’t seem that immersion breaking to me. And from a gameplay perspective, needing to go back to one of your apartments to rest all the time would’ve been a pain in the ass.

This is all petty stuff, though, that could’ve been fixed with a few lines of dialogue to explain that you had a badass progenitor or they’re transfusing you with the blood of Cain or a dozen other things. The game was rushed, sure. But if your objections could be fixed by Wesp adding a little dialogue or even a letter that explains your rapid rise in power in his next patch, it doesn’t seem like a big deal to me.

To my mind, the biggest problem with Bloodlines is that there’s not enough of it. They should’ve added another couple of hubs to the end so that there wasn’t so much barely interrupted combat, but they didn’t have time.

This game was a buggy mess when it came out and it still sucked me in. Some of the best writing, best atmosphere, and best immersion of any game ever. When I got it on release, Bloodlines would crash every five or ten minutes. In nearly any other game I would have rage-quit after six or seven crashes in a row, but I could not fucking stop. Truly a mark of great content.
 

Cael

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I knew this beloved cult classic was shite the first few seconds after starting the game. I'm so smart.
The problem with a CULT classic is that it, by definition, only appeals to a (relative) few ultra hardcore zealous fanbois. The implications of that to ANY conversation trying to impartially critique the object of their fanboi-ism is obvious.
 

Kyl Von Kull

The Night Tripper
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Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
I knew this beloved cult classic was shite the first few seconds after starting the game. I'm so smart.
The problem with a CULT classic is that it, by definition, only appeals to a (relative) few ultra hardcore zealous fanbois. The implications of that to ANY conversation trying to impartially critique the object of their fanboi-ism is obvious.

it's only a cult classic because the bugs took years for modders to iron out. the content is classic, period.

If you don’t want overwrought and melodramatic characters, don’t buy a game about fucking vampires.
This says more about you than about me, sparkles.

Waaah, this game sucks, the characters just aren't likable! Poor baby... that's half the point.
 

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