Vapourware Rocksteady's Suicide Squad: Kill the Justice League out now

[Ezekiel]

Streets of Rage series doesn't have a complex control scheme either, just three buttons that can be combined for two more actions and the directional pad, but what a difference the focus on positions relative to the enemies makes. Any martial artist/fighter will tell you how important foot movement and positioning is. So to not have that in a Batman game is gigantically compromising. All those different items that are on the number row of the keyboard mean nothing if Batman is already so overpowered by the automation. You barely interact with the analog stick, if at all. It's the wrong approach for Batman anyway. He is as much about the objects in his environment as he is about his utility belt, maybe more so. Yet you can't throw furniture or bash people into sinks. All you can interact with are the weapons that the enemies themselves bring, like bottles and pipes. You have a limited supply for some items in stealth, even though there is plenty that he should use in his environment.

 

[Ezekiel]

Him:

Foot movement and positioning have a huge impact on Arkham combat! Did you even play through all of them or are you just judging it on Asylum?? Because Batman actually DOES use the environment and bash thugs into corners and railings depending on where you're standing and he also can throw furniture at thugs -- especially in the later games like Arkham City and Knight. There are YouTube videos of some of the craziest combos you can pull off in those games. If that was your take then you just weren't trying when you played it! The same argument could be made on a fighting game like Tekken by someone who spams the same attack or juggles opponents in the air. Just because that's how *you* played it, doesn't mean that's all there is to the game.

Me:

Yes, I played them fairly thoroughly, except Origins, which I gave just two playthroughs years apart and nothing else.



I recorded this six years ago. I tried in the beginning of the minigame to use variety, but as the score got higher and higher, I did not want to risk it anymore. It really is a dumb combat system.

Him:

You don't have to watch all of it, just pay attention to things you can do in the beginning. This is from a record with everything unlocked too so keep that in mind when things look overpowered.

Me:

That's skill, definitely above my own, but it doesn't impress me in the way you hoped, because I know what it feels like to control him. You press the attack button and the game TAKES YOU to the enemy, no matter how far away they are. If you try to run/move on your own, the combo breaks and your attacks become weaker again. So it's not really about foot movement at all. Get it now? If I use the mouse to orient myself in a fight, I probably don't even need to use WASD at all, since navigation only controls which enemy Batman will home in on. Like uninvitedcop said, it's designed to look cool rather than be mechanically satisfying. Streets of Rage 2 kicks Arkham's ass with fewer buttons and one less dimension.

I would rather be mediocre at a game that's fun than exceptional at a game that does not make me feel like I am really controlling the fighter.

What bothers me most is all these people saying, "I'm sick of Batman. Give it a rest. We've had enough games." Even though all the modern games had poor gameplay, poor art direction and forgettable music and stories. My heart craves a good Batman game.

Him:

Batman does different attacks depending on where you're standing or where the enemies are. That was kinda my point because you mentioned how Batman doesn't bash enemies into sinks or walls. Well, that all depends on the environment you fight in. If you're in a large, round room like Joker's Playground then there's not much you can use. It's basically a ball pit area or a snake pit. If you fight on a rooftop or anywhere with railings or dividing walls in between then Batman will bash thugs into walls if he counters near them or smash their heads into what's near him. This was addressed after Arkham Asylum and only improved as the games progressed. Arkham Knight is the best version of the combat which is why I was trying to show you that vid.

In Arkham Knight, you can freely grab non-lethal weapons in the room and use the environment to take down thugs. Throw furniture around, break off light fixtures, throw thugs into searchlights and do even more counter attacks by using the shape of the environment. It's gotten actually really intricate since Asylum and City and the harder difficulties make the fights more intense. But, again, it all depends on how you play. If you play in the easier difficulties or even normal, your play is going get dull until you get to fight Tyger guards and Raas ninjas and that happens much later in Arkham City.

I also noticed that most people who play this on PC with mouse and keyboard have very similar complaints. Arkham Batman is designed to be played with a controller. It's like playing Halo with a mouse and keyboard, then it's like shooting turkeys because the AI doesn't try as hard to kill you. The thugs are dumb and that was for the sole purpose to make you feel unstoppable because that's how Batman is supposed to be. Fighting style-wise, I get that Batman's moves are pretty goofy - especially compared to Catwoman, Robin, Nightwing and Batgirl but the concept around free-flow is solid if you explore it enough and it only gets better across the later games. I think Arkham Knight and Origins are where it shines best.

Me:

"Plays better with a controller" is pretty baseless. Why would it? Explain. What similar complaints do other mouse and keyboard users have? Tell me one thing I said that is determined by input device. Unlike controller users, I don't have to take my hand from the camera for anything, and I can whip it around faster. All the tools are right up there on the number row for me.

The bland freeflow system is the whole reason that stealth and action could not be better mixed in these games, why everyone is far more lethal in stealth. Why there is usually one area for stealth and a different one for action. Freeflow is too easy and makes the action look really floaty.

Him:

Just about everyone who has played these games on pc with mouse and keyboard said similar things about it not being fun and bland. I'm not saying that it will convince you completely but the root of the problem was that you were looking at it from a very limited perspective. That's why I mentioned that the same argument could be made by someone who spams one combo in Tekken and then claims that it's bland and boring because that's all it takes to win fights.

You're basically that spammer, in this case, complaining that continuing combos take you to the opponent. Even though this is true, it's not the ONLY way to play it and the game doesn't only reward you by combos, it also rewards you for variations and throwing in gadgets and objects from the environment. It also depends on how you choose to fight and there's no set way to do it. If all I did was care about landing combos then I'd have gotten pretty bored of it too and titan thugs just get in the way of that.

Then the same can also be said for stealth. The guns are always lethal but the game let's you choose how to handle every situation so that depends on your creativity.

Me:

Because everything is so automated that you are not even moving the character yourself (with the attack button TAKING YOU to the enemy and WASD only determining the target), getting high scores is the only reason to keep playing. Which of course makes all fights in the campaign where your scores are not recorded WORTHLESS. Using variety only makes you much more vulnerable to attack and combo disruption. I just tried using all those weapons in battle and remembered how annoying it makes the game. That's for masters. Pros. Again, I would rather be mediocre at a game that's fun than exceptional at a game where the movement is so automated. It's supposed to look cool, but actually looks really stupid because of how Batman seems to "Gravity Rush" himself towards enemies, floating and twirling over the floor with no catapult.

The stealth is context-sensitive crap that can't be mixed with the overpowering action.

That you keep saying it's the mouse and keyboard seems like a cop-out. Quote these people you keep talking about and I will tell you why their struggles do not relate to my criticisms.

 

[DemonKing]

Ouch...

https://www.videogameschronicle.com...unt-has-started-dipping-below-gotham-knights/

 

[DicLupa]

That's three strikes for Suicide Squad as a mass market 'thing'. Can we please stop fucking trying.

This game would have still been dog shit if they swapped the characters out for any other comic book team, but SS seems like something where whatever patience was had for it originally, it's now in the negatives.

I think movie and game companies misunderstood that Harley Quinn is popular among online millennials who were sexually awakened by her and Catwoman on TAS. When Halloween rolls around and a solid eighth of women are dressing up as Harley, they are doing 'slut' Harley and we all know why. Nobody dresses as the frumpy hobo from Birds of Prey. This attempt to reclaim her as some feminist empowerment story is so laughably misguided, and I kinda hope they keep it up despite every signal they should just. Fucking. Stop.

 

[<3sRichardSimmons]

Hahaha oh man that reference to year over year makes me realize that SS is basically going to be put up against Hogwarts Legacy on earnings calls. I fully believe that both games are shit, but… ooof. That’s a real “heads must roll” moment for WB.

 

[Ezekiel]

After the Suicide Squad failure, they will...

Warner Bros. focusing on mobile and free-to-play instead of "volatile" AAA console games

Warner Bros. Discovery gaming boss J.B. Perrette wants the company to move away from the "volatile" market of AAA games for consoles.

Speaking during a recent Morgan Stanley event (thanks Gamespot), Perrette said the company would combat volatility by focusing on its biggest franchises and bringing some to the mobile and free-to-play space in addition to live-service games. The aim is more consistent revenue.

"We're doubling down on games as an area where we think there is a lot more growth opportunity that we can tap into with the IP that we have and some of the capabilities we have on the studio where we're uniquely positioned as both a publisher and a developer of games," he said.

"Rather than just launching a one-and-done console game, how do we develop a game around, for example, a Hogwarts Legacy or Harry Potter, that is a live-service where people can live and work and build and play in that world in an ongoing basis?"

Perrette noted that WBD has popular brands to rely on, such as Mortal Kombat, Game of Thrones, Harry Potter and DC, as well as 11 different internal studios for game development. As such, he expects gaming to bring the company "meaningful growth" in the future.

His comments are interesting following the company's most recent releases.

Hogwarts Legacy was the best-selling game of last year, selling 22m copies, though its more recent Suicide Squad: Kill the Justice League has proven a big disappointment.

While specific sales figures are yet to be shared, the company's chief financial officer Gunnar Wiedenfels last month stated Suicide Squad had "fallen short of our expectations".

Together, the two games certainly encapsulate that volatility Perrette described.

Suicide Squad includes the sort of live service elements he's keen to build upon, though it's these that were criticised by media and players alike upon the game's release.

Perrette's comments also mirror those of WBD CEO David Zaslav who outlined in November the company's plans to focus on "always on" live service games.

Obvious takeaway is that CEOs don't understand gamers. They make the market volatile themselves.

 

[Silverfish]

So it turns out Suicide Squad was actually a statement of intent.

 

[Hammer Of The Heretics]

Good. I approve of people I dislike doubling down on setting their money on fire.

 

[rumSaint]

After the Suicide Squad failure, they will...

Warner Bros. focusing on mobile and free-to-play instead of "volatile" AAA console games

Warner Bros. Discovery gaming boss J.B. Perrette wants the company to move away from the "volatile" market of AAA games for consoles.

Speaking during a recent Morgan Stanley event (thanks Gamespot), Perrette said the company would combat volatility by focusing on its biggest franchises and bringing some to the mobile and free-to-play space in addition to live-service games. The aim is more consistent revenue.

"We're doubling down on games as an area where we think there is a lot more growth opportunity that we can tap into with the IP that we have and some of the capabilities we have on the studio where we're uniquely positioned as both a publisher and a developer of games," he said.

"Rather than just launching a one-and-done console game, how do we develop a game around, for example, a Hogwarts Legacy or Harry Potter, that is a live-service where people can live and work and build and play in that world in an ongoing basis?"

Perrette noted that WBD has popular brands to rely on, such as Mortal Kombat, Game of Thrones, Harry Potter and DC, as well as 11 different internal studios for game development. As such, he expects gaming to bring the company "meaningful growth" in the future.

His comments are interesting following the company's most recent releases.

Hogwarts Legacy was the best-selling game of last year, selling 22m copies, though its more recent Suicide Squad: Kill the Justice League has proven a big disappointment.

While specific sales figures are yet to be shared, the company's chief financial officer Gunnar Wiedenfels last month stated Suicide Squad had "fallen short of our expectations".

Together, the two games certainly encapsulate that volatility Perrette described.

Suicide Squad includes the sort of live service elements he's keen to build upon, though it's these that were criticised by media and players alike upon the game's release.

Perrette's comments also mirror those of WBD CEO David Zaslav who outlined in November the company's plans to focus on "always on" live service games.

Obvious takeaway is that CEOs don't understand gamers. They make the market volatile themselves.

Make shit game, people don't like it.

IT'S THE GAMERS THAT ARE WRONG!

But, let's face it, mobile market and microtransaction + FOMO driven bullshit is way more profitable and does not require that high quality approach to give returns (Diablo Immortal cough).
PS: mandatory Battle Pass to turn gaming into a job.

 

[Cyberarmy]

 

[Ezekiel]

Oh god, I just remembered Joker's grotesque appearance as the final boss in Arkham Asylum. Titan Joker. If I actually replayed these games (Never did the stories again after New Game Plus.), I would have so much more to hate.

Why would he have a mohawk?

 

[lightbane]

Oh god, I just remembered Joker's grotesque appearance as the final boss in Arkham Asylum. Titan Joker. If I actually replayed these games (Never did the stories again after New Game Plus.), I would have so much more to hate.

Why would he have a mohawk?

He was channeling the edge of the 90s, complete with grotesque shape and muscles.

 

[Fargus]

Is this the game where Lex Luthor whines about toxic masculinity and Batman gets a Soprano style execution?

 

[lycanwarrior]

Suicide Squad: Kill the Justice League’s Fifth Season Will “Likely” be its Last – Rumour​

https://gamingbolt.com/suicide-squa...s-fifth-season-will-likely-be-its-last-rumour

With the game's first post-launch season having done little to revitalize its dwindling playerbase, the decision has apparently been made to end the game with its fifth season in 2025.​

 

[Zombra]

That was fast. Poor Rocksteady.

 

[mediocrepoet]

That was fast. Poor Rocksteady.

Self inflicted wounds while chasing the live service jackpot. The more this happens, the better tbh. Up until the industry trend changes.

 

[Zombra]

That was fast. Poor Rocksteady.

Self inflicted wounds while chasing the live service jackpot. The more this happens, the better tbh. Up until the industry trend changes.

Oh I agree obviously. Still I'm sad to see a good developer pumped and dumped by idiot publishers.

 

[Softgels]

5 seasons?, I’m impressed that it’s even going to last that long.

 

[<3sRichardSimmons]

Uh, yeah, but I’m not sure that I would say that a developer that was allowed to go 8 FUCKING YEARS without releasing a single title is the victim of publisher “pump and dump”.

 

[Tyranicon]

Just about everyone and their mom saw this coming.

 

[jaekl]

I'm hoping to turn on the news in the near future and see a report on an epidemic of homeless game developers panhandling and committing petty crimes for hormone replacement drugs.

 

[Tyranicon]

homeless game developers panhandling and committing petty crimes

Lol, most gamedevs can't deal with people @ing them on twitter. They won't last on the streets.

 

[Elttharion]

I'm hoping to turn on the news in the near future and see a report on an epidemic of homeless game developers panhandling and committing petty crimes for hormone replacement drugs.

Troonshine

 

[jaekl]

homeless game developers panhandling and committing petty crimes

Lol, most gamedevs can't deal with people @ing them on twitter. They won't last on the streets.

What'll they all do, lay down and die of thirst? I like to think at least a core group will rise above the adversity and form murderous gangs that kidnap women and tie them to a rusty old hospital bed, then use a strange apparatus consisting of many needles and various tubes to extract their precious hormonal juices until they're just a wrinkled brown husk.