Romance in cRPGs - is it ever good?

[Great Deceiver]

Nuke romances from orbit.

 

[Mustawd]

There are those who enjoy them, and those who don't.

What is this? A fluent alt from 2005?

 

[anvi]

I love romances. Morrigan would get it. Shame they are mostly done badly though. I did one in Witcher 3 and it was pretty good. I've only seen about 4 romances in games though. I have played several other games that had romances but I didn't bother doing any of it because I didn't like any of the women and I was more interested in fighting stuff. I loved BG2 so much but the characters annoyed me. Imoen with her stupid voice, etc. I usually play it in multiplayer mode and make my own party.

 

[Tommy Wiseau]

Agreed. With the release of Age of Decadence, Vault Dweller already has quite a bit of experience writing visual novels, so yandere gang rape territory wouldn't be too far off.

This is probably what Vault Dweller will look like in about six years.

 

[Iznaliu]

because I didn't like any of the women and I was more interested in fighting stuff.

Romances should be more than wish fulfilment.

 

[Delterius]

- case 1: you have 1000 games with romances and for each game implementing the romance took X man/hours and Y money.
- case 2: in an alternate reality the same 1000 games are made without romances and those X and Y were spend on other aspects - including gameplay.

That sounds so generic it has to be true.

Romance is so insipid that modders can add it to games, which live or die according to way more than the paltry amount of hours dedicated to a romance path. Plainly put, if you think something like Dragon Age 2 can be improved by cutting the romance, you're right. The romance in that game is atrocious. If you think it can be fixed with redirecting man hours towards 'gameplay', you're being silly.

 

[Gangrelrumbler]

Just answer his question

B. Why the hell am I being singled out? I didn't even comment on his stupid post. Why don't you answer his question?

Because I think that romances in Torment are great.

 

[Deuce Traveler]

Although I didn't like the game as much as other SSI Gold Box games, I preferred the romance in Treasures of the Savage Frontier. This may have been one of the first romances, and there was an NPC who could fall in love with one of your characters depending on your actions, and it was very low-key. The other PCs noticed the two spending time together, which gradually was commented upon becoming a full-fledge relationship. There was no large dialogue choice to push the romance, or odd quest to make it happen. It just occurred in the background where the player could fill in his or her own details on how it developed. It had no impact on the plot or flow of the game. Therefore it just filled a bit of the background without interrupting or jarring the main thread. Perfect.

 

[Lhynn]

because I didn't like any of the women and I was more interested in fighting stuff.

Romances should be more than wish fulfilment.

No they shouldnt, thatd be fucking creepy. No one here wants a realistic simulation of a relationship on their vydia game, they can go out and get one of their own if they are inclined to do so, or probably already have one. Romances, like everything else in games are about wish fulfillment, not about real feelings.

 

[Serious_Business]

not about real feelings.

Do you know what a real feeling is, you superb flaming faggot? Do you want me to teach you about real feelings? Is it time for you to ascend?

But the question you must ask yourself is - how much real feelings do you live when you fulfill a wish? None? All of them? Is reality the place where you get your goddamn shitty feelings? I'll sell you some feelings asshole. The first step is - step outside the house. Meet people. Create a bond with them. Kill yourself. You must go through all the steps or this self-help guide will not help. Godspeed.

 

[Lhynn]

not about real feelings.

Do you know what a real feeling is, you superb flaming faggot? Do you want me to teach you about real feelings? Is it time for you to ascend?

But the question you must ask yourself is - how much real feelings do you live when you fulfill a wish? None? All of them? Is reality the place where you get your goddamn shitty feelings? I'll sell you some feelings asshole. The first step is - step outside the house. Meet people. Create a bond with them. Kill yourself. You must go through all the steps or this self-help guide will not help. Godspeed.

 

[Sranchammer]

The only romance done right is Belle the Sheep from Arcanum.

 

[Iznaliu]

No they shouldnt, thatd be fucking creepy. No one here wants a realistic simulation of a relationship on their vydia game, they can go out and get one of their own if they are inclined to do so, or probably already have one. Romances, like everything else in games are about wish fulfillment, not about real feelings.

Games shouldn't be about coddling you; they should be about challenging you and keeping you on the edge of the seat, wanting to know what's next.

 

[Lhynn]

Games shouldn't be about coddling you; they should be about challenging you and keeping you on the edge of the seat, wanting to know what's next.

What does one thing have to do with the other? Or do you honestly think games like AoD or DS or any other rpg known for its difficulty arent about wish fulfillment?

 

[Jaesun]

Although I didn't like the game as much as other SSI Gold Box games, I preferred the romance in Treasures of the Savage Frontier. This may have been one of the first romances, and there was an NPC who could fall in love with one of your characters depending on your actions, and it was very low-key. The other PCs noticed the two spending time together, which gradually was commented upon becoming a full-fledge relationship. There was no large dialogue choice to push the romance, or odd quest to make it happen. It just occurred in the background where the player could fill in his or her own details on how it developed. It had no impact on the plot or flow of the game. Therefore it just filled a bit of the background without interrupting or jarring the main thread. Perfect.

It was (as far as I am aware of), the first cRPG to have Romance, to the extent that it did have within the game.

 

[hajro]

If you have a certain character in mind it can be ok, bioware as much dick as you want fuck buffets are trash tho.

 

[Iznaliu]

What does one thing have to do with the other? Or do you honestly think games like AoD or DS or any other rpg known for its difficulty arent about wish fulfillment?

Games shouldn't just about challenging gameplay, they should also be about challenging your assumptions.

 

[Gangrelrumbler]

Romances should foremost be fun and engaging. The biggest problem with Bioware romances is that they are usually just two people talking until one convinces the other that they should have sex. What a fucking garbage. This is a bloody video game, things are supposed to be exciting. If Bioware approached main quest of BG 2 the way they've approached romance subplot the game would be about you going after Irenicus, then listening to him bitching about elves until he decides that you are such a cool guy he will just give you back Imoen and your soul. Well Jaheira romance tried to shake things up with Harpers and poisoning but that quest was super-boring.

 

[NotAGolfer]

I think the single most important thing you need for romances to work are cutscenes. Well done cutscenes and a story that pulls you in and makes you care about the characters. The flow of it has to make sense too so no retarded unlocking the next romancing level using gifts and other arbitrary game mechanics like in DA:O, tie it to the story progress instead. I really hated that aspect of the game... the rest wasn't that great either, never understood the hype for it. First big step in the decline of Bioware.

Voiced ingame dialogue or dialogue textboxes alone won't do imo, you either need to go 100% text adventure (so no distracting graphics except maybe for stills) or use all the cinematic tricks in the book, like a good movie.

Games very rarely do either one of those, the only examples I can think of where romances weren't annoying or distracting are PS:T and The Witcher 3. PS:T came very close to the text adventure style, lots of beautifully written text and the graphics didn't distract too much, Witcher 3 had engaging cutscenes and a story that pulled you in.

So as long as game designers/writers don't do one of the above romances have no place in a game except maybe for fluff/worldbuilding and then they really don't need to be fleshed out too much. Just let the player know who's in love with whom to get some realistic motivations into the game and otherwise keep it low-key.

 

[Lhynn]

Games shouldn't just about challenging gameplay, they should also be about challenging your assumptions.

Not really, no. Some maybe? its not something thats needed. I happen to dislike most of the retarded artsy shit that comes out these days and am just looking for a good dungeon romp.
I like the idea of my character getting womyn, wealth and glory after a good adventure. Innovation for innovations sake has always been shit.

 

[gaussgunner]

I think he means like Gone Home.

Assumption: this is a retarded horror game with fucking jumpscares and shit.
Reality: the entire game is a fucking teenage dyke romance (and not in a good way).

Some storyfags like that shit. To each "their" own.

 

[Iznaliu]

Not really, no. Some maybe? its not something thats needed. I happen to dislike most of the retarded artsy shit that comes out these days and am just looking for a good dungeon romp.
I like the idea of my character getting womyn, wealth and glory after a good adventure. Innovation for innovations sake has always been shit.

Most good artists want to push the boundaries, so it's kind of impossible. And just because the basic outline isn't innovative doesn't mean there can't be subtext and connotations.

 

[Lhynn]

Most good artists want to push the boundaries, so it's kind of impossible. And just because the basic outline isn't innovative doesn't mean there can't be subtext and connotations.

What the fuck are you even talking about? Elaborate on your retardation so i can debunk it properly.

 

[Eyestabber]

The way I see it, there are four "schools of thought" devs usually follow in regards to romances in RPGs:

- Romance as a sidequest/independent reward: usually the most common and shittiest solution. You save the world and at some point during your quest you get to fuck some bitches and have a cringy "romance" with them. Stories are usually written by 30+ virgins that legit believe listening to a woman's problems will eventually lead you to tapping her pussy. There are exceptions (Witcher 3), but most of the time I find this solution to be terrible, simply because the "romance" always sticks out like a sore thumb. Generic romances with no connections to the story or the setting are complete and utter garbage, IMO.

- Romances as "spice" in the main quest: IMHO the most elegant solution. During your quest to save the world or whatever you meet women whose stories and goals are linked with your own and you may or may not tap their pussies. Either way, the "HEY, I WAS FUCKING THAT!" element adds extra flavour to the story. Heather in Bloodlines is a gr8 example. You know a romance is successful when you google "bloodlines how to" and google completes with "save heather". Visas in KOTOR 2 had a cool story arc that was mostly gutted (but KOTOR restoration brings it back) and was p. decent. Ofc this option can easily backfire when you force the player into a "relationship" with a poorly written/unlikable character.

- Romances with gameplay consequences: a rare, but interesting option. Your choice of waifu carries consequences beyond "which b00bs do you preffer?". Mount and Blade and Crusader Kings are the most recent examples in my mind. The "what do I stand to gain?" question is rarely asked to the player when choosing their mates, despite real life being the exact opposite. I think this is a mostly untapped market that could be used by a talented developer. If VD ever gets over his "no romances, period" stance, I could definitely see him writting about women trying to use their pussy to get the MC to side with HER faction.

- Ignoring romances completely: the safest path, but as others pointed out, not always the perfect solution. Depending on the story/setting you CAN get away with not including any form of romance, but most of the time you'll leave players with the impression that something is missing. You CAN ofc take the easy way out by adding "and [Charname] met a beautiful woman and they married and bla bla bla THE END" during the ending but...whatever. That's my main criticism of AoD's setting: in a world where everyone is trying to get ahead by any means necessary...pussy plays NO role in all of this? Ahn...okay I like monies too, I guess.

Anyway, here is how I would do it:

During his quest thingie to save the world of Whateverland, player meets Generic Elven Chick in a tavern. Generic Elven Chick is cool and all, but doesn't share much about her past other than "I ran away from Generic Elven Kingdom because life is teh hard". They start adventuring together and one thing leads to another. As the relationship matures, Generic Elven Chick opens up: she is actually the daughter of a powerful Generic Elven Lord who wanted to marry her to some dude for political GAINZ. She ran away because she didn't love a man that couldn't fight for shit and was a bit of a douche.

Fast forward a couple of quests in the main story and Generic Elven Kingdom declares war upon Generic Small Human Kingdom. Turns out Generic Elven King is a massive cuck that does everything that Generic Elven Lord tells him to do. Yep, your would-be father-in-law is a crazy warmongering asshole. In spite of that, Generic Elven Chick rediscovers her sense of duty and tells you "I MUST RETURN TO MY PEOPLE, THEY NEED MEEEEEEEEEEEE" and asks you to come along. Do you, the player, side with the Evil faction just so you can keep tapping that elven pussy OR do you simply say "no thanks, sugar tits, I ain't gonna slaughter a bunch of peasants just because you told me to!". Whatever you choose, you'll have access to gear and troops of the selected faction.

See, my little romance plot mixes 2 and 3 and if a talented writer were to flesh these ideas out, the end result would probably be an enjoyable gameplay experience.

 

[hajro]

The best solution is singular romances where the characters are written in relation, bioware dick buffets get out reeeeeeeeee!