Codex Interview RPG Codex Interview: Adam Brennecke on Project Eternity

[SCO]

No TB no dolla

 

[Infinitron]

DarkUnderlord That's the initial description of the Kickstarter. I said Kickstarter updates. You know, the reason so many people here are convinced Obsidian fucked up their funding and won't be getting the mythical 5 million dollars.

 

[DarkUnderlord]

You mean where Obsidian have been coming out of design meetings and posting it straight onto KickStarter?

Information that was already in the original Wasteland KickStarter right from the start.

 

[Infinitron]

You mean where Obsidian have been coming out of design meetings and posting it straight onto KickStarter?

I've already concluded that is unlikely to be true in my conversation with Mrowak the other day.

Information that was already in the original Wasteland KickStarter right from the start.

No, see, I'm not talking about information here. Most people here think Obsidian fucked up their Kickstarter by not posting COOL UPDATES fast enough on the first few days. The actual, total amount of information we know about the games is a different issue.

That said, are you paying attention to the updates? I'm pretty sure we know as much or more about this game than Wasteland 2 by now. And we certainly will by the time the Kickstarter ends (unless Brian reveals more information about W2 by then).

 

[Kz3r0]

Call it fatigue, or call it the end of Kickstarter as a fad. All I know is that something like the Banner Saga would never make the money it did today.

Yeah, this is the kind of projects getting similar amounts of money now:

Castle Story is a voxel-based creative strategy game about building castles brick by brick and defending them against enemies.

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/902505202/castle-story?ref=category

 

[Infinitron]

Call it fatigue, or call it the end of Kickstarter as a fad. All I know is that something like the Banner Saga would never make the money it did today.

Yeah, this is the kind of projects getting similar amounts of money now:

Castle Story is a voxel-based creative strategy game about building castles brick by brick and defending them against enemies.

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/902505202/castle-story?ref=category

Cute. It's not a TB RPG, though. Perhaps we should speak of the Kickstarter fatigue of specific genres.

 

[DarkUnderlord]

Information that was already in the original Wasteland KickStarter right from the start.

No, see, I'm not talking about information here. Most people here think Obsidian fucked up their Kickstarter by not posting enough COOL UPDATES fast enough on the first few days.

#1: Obsidian failed to provide a lot of game information in the original KickStarter, contenting themselves with name-dropping.

#2: Player House!!

#3: "At a minimum, players will be able to specify their main character's name, sex, class, race (including subrace), culture, traits, ability scores, portrait" - Really? Wow. Next you'll be telling me I can kill stuff in the game! "We are still developing the races".

#4: New tiers.

#5: They finally start explaining a core concept: souls (which they have to do, because it's a whole new franchise with nothing prior to base it on).

#6: Announce they're using Unity, which provides native Unix support, thus negating their required $2.2 Million stretch goal announced @ #2.

Like I said, amateur hour.

 

[Infinitron]

DarkUnderlord
Or, maybe they've decided to purposely space out the information about the game rather than frontload it. To keep people watching and waiting, just like they did with that (extremely effective) four day countdown on their website.

How can you say for sure that it isn't working? Maybe this is all the money they can get?

But go ahead, keep dreaming about a mythical five million dollars for a game you don't even like.

 

[Kz3r0]

Cute. It's not a TB RPG, though. Perhaps we should speak of the Kickstarter fatigue of specific genres.

This is the fallacy, Kickstarter gets millions precisely because permits to reach a greater audience that at the same time is not the typical target of the AAA+ titles.

 

[DarkUnderlord]

DarkUnderlord Or, maybe they've decided to purposely space out the information about the game rather than frontload it.

Infinitron, they've been running out of production meetings and posting everything they know as they're developing it.

 

[Infinitron]

DarkUnderlord Or, maybe they've decided to purposely space out the information about the game rather than frontload it.

Infinitron, they've been running out of production meetings and posting everything they know as they're developing it.

I find that unlikely. Perhaps someday we'll know the truth.

You place an extremely high value on information - other people, quite possibly most people, don't feel the same way. People knew far less about Double Fine's game.

 

[Jaesun]

People knew far less about Double Fine's game.

Very true.

 

[DarkUnderlord]

People knew far less about Double Fine's game.

Which shows you what a professional KickStarter with a bunch of great videos can do.

He also announced Mac and Linux support in his first update, along with EFIGS language support, Steam distribution and eventually a DRM free version. All in the first update.

Plus, he's an award winning developer of a number of games - that not only date back into the 90's - but includes games he's made within the last decade too. Also they weren't notorious for being buggy pieces of shit with poor camera controls.

 

[almondblight]

The infamous Kickstarter fatigue, that managed to pile up hundreds of projects getting hundreds of thousand of dollars, because is not that we are talking about an expanding market here, we all know that every project is backed by Jack, Jean and their cousins.

Eh? Kickstarter fatigue and the higher minimum pledge are the reasons I probably won't back this. I've already backed Wasteland 2, Conquistadores, Shadowrun, Dead State, and Legends of Eisenwald (and Xenonauts, if that counts). Donating to create the incline is one thing. Donating for yet another possible good RPG after you've already donated to five makes you start to feel like those people that get stuck on charity donation lists. Most people's money - especially money that they are giving to game companies for a promise - is limited.

 

[almondblight]

I'm pretty sure we know as much or more about this game than Wasteland 2 by now.

If you exclude gameplay assumptions made because the game was called "Wasteland 2", I'd say we definitely know more about Project: Eternity. You might say that the title "Wasteland 2" tells us a lot; if you do, you probably forgot that the same man making it made the 2004 "The Bard's Tale."

 

[J_C]

This argument is not going anywhere, but fuck it. DarkUnderlord , why are you trying to prove that Obsidian should have got more money, when there is no evidence for it. You are just making assumptions, linking Google search results (really?) and the sales data of previous games (since when does that have an effect on KS).

Imagine that you are Average Joe, who never heard of Wasteland. Now look at the start of W2-s project. There isn't much there:

Wasteland was set in a dangerous, post-apocalyptic world in the American Southwest. Over the course of adventures rangers would receive promotions, acquire new skills and equipment, then face new challenges with outcomes that changed depending on the strategy used to defeat them. The game featured a strong storyline which required painful decisions by players; and a storyline that allowed for maximum re-playability. Wasteland 2, with your participation and insights, will recapture all that and provide more. It'll finally be the game worthy to be a Wasteland sequel, as challenging and rewarding as the original, with all added capacity and dazzle of games today.

Now look at PE:

Project Eternity will take the central hero, memorable companions and the epic exploration of Baldur’s Gate, add in the fun, intense combat and dungeon diving of Icewind Dale, and tie it all together with the emotional writing and mature thematic exploration of Planescape: Torment.
Combat uses a tactical real-time with pause system - positioning your party and coordinating attacks and abilities is one of the keys to success. The world map is dotted with unique locations and wilderness ripe for exploration and questing. You’ll create your own character and collect companions along the way – taking him or her not just through this story, but, with your continued support, through future adventures. You will engage in dialogues that are deep, and offer many choices to determine the fate of you and your party. …and you'll experience a story that explores mature themes and presents you with complex, difficult choices to shape how your story plays out.

What are those extra infos W2 provides against PE? Remember, you are Average Joe that never heard abou the prequel, so you can't make assumptions about the gameplay based on that. Because it is easy to talk about W2's features that will be in the game since the original game had them. PE is a new IP. They might be the spiritual successor of the IE games, but they will use new rules and new lore.

 

[Grunker]

Borderlands 1 had an interesting Character System

Bros of this motherfucking thread; I rest my motherfucking case.

 

[DarkUnderlord]

This argument is not going anywhere, but fuck it. DarkUnderlord , why are you trying to prove that Obsidian should have got more money, when there is no evidence for it. You are just making assumptions, linking Google search results (really?) and the sales data of previous games (since when does that have an effect on KS).

Hey, you're the one who made the bullshit argument about Double Fine getting more attention.

Imagine that you are Average Joe, who never heard of Wasteland.

Then the project wasn't really aimed at you. Let's face it, TB post-apocalyptic games aren't aimed at "Average Joe". That's why Fargo went to KickStarter in the first place - because publishers don't fund non-fantasy turn-based games.

Meanwhile, Obsidian couldn't get funding for their (what may as well be) real-time fantasy RPG with Elves, so they turned to KickStarter.

You'd also think someone interested in the project would look a little into Wasteland because otherwise...

Now look at the start of W2-s project. There isn't much there:

Wasteland was set in a dangerous, post-apocalyptic world in the American Southwest. Over the course of adventures rangers would receive promotions, acquire new skills and equipment, then face new challenges with outcomes that changed depending on the strategy used to defeat them. The game featured a strong storyline which required painful decisions by players; and a storyline that allowed for maximum re-playability. Wasteland 2, with your participation and insights, will recapture all that and provide more. It'll finally be the game worthy to be a Wasteland sequel, as challenging and rewarding as the original, with all added capacity and dazzle of games today.

Now look at PE:

Project Eternity will take the central hero, memorable companions and the epic exploration of Baldur’s Gate, add in the fun, intense combat and dungeon diving of Icewind Dale, and tie it all together with the emotional writing and mature thematic exploration of Planescape: Torment.
Combat uses a tactical real-time with pause system - positioning your party and coordinating attacks and abilities is one of the keys to success. The world map is dotted with unique locations and wilderness ripe for exploration and questing. You’ll create your own character and collect companions along the way – taking him or her not just through this story, but, with your continued support, through future adventures. You will engage in dialogues that are deep, and offer many choices to determine the fate of you and your party. …and you'll experience a story that explores mature themes and presents you with complex, difficult choices to shape how your story plays out.

What are those extra infos W2 provides against PE? Remember, you are Average Joe that never heard abou the prequel, so you can't make assumptions about the gameplay based on that.

What you quoted from the Wasteland 2 KickStarter is the opening paragraph. There's a section called "Nuts and Bolts" below that which goes into a bit more detail:

We’re going back to the original and building from there. No first person shooter, we’re going top down so you get a tactical feel for the situation. And we’re not ditching the party play to turn it into some hack-and-slash bloodfest. It’s turn based, tactical, with a storyline that will be deeper and broader.

We’re determined to keep the gritty, grim and satirical writing. We’re going to pitch those moral dilemmas at you. You’re going to be faced with the consequences of your actions.​

Oops! There goes your argument. It does help if you pay attention J_C.

Because it is easy to talk about W2's features that will be in the game since the original game had them. PE is a new IP. They might be the spiritual successor of the IE games, but they will use new rules and new lore.

... because otherwise, if "Average Joe" had never heard about Wasteland, then you can be sure as fuck he's unlikely to have heard about Baldur's Gate (1998), Icewind Dale or Planescape: Torment. Which means name-dropping them would be just as useless. Of course, mentioning those games would indicate that "Average Joe", given he's about to drop his hard earned on one of these games, would do some fucking research into what he's putting his money into. Now, if you want to argue that those three games are more widely known about than Wasteland (1988), than you've just inadvertently stumbled into the point.

Incidentally, where did you get this "Average Joe" strawman from? When the fuck did we argue about the "lowest common denominator" on the Codex?

 

[Infinitron]

Plus, he's an award winning developer of a number of games - that not only date back into the 90's - but includes games he's made within the last decade too. Also they weren't notorious for being buggy pieces of shit with poor camera controls.

But wait, I thought you said Obsidian was more famous and more popular than Double Fine and should be getting much more money. Which is it?

 

[DarkUnderlord]

No, that point still stands. My point about award-winning for Tim Schafer is that Obsidian's reputation precedes them, thus they should do a bit more work to make sure they're alleviating that perception. Rather than re-inforcing the notion that they have no idea what they're doing and are just "making it up as they go".

 

[Infinitron]

No, that point still stands. My point about award-winning for Tim Schafer is that Obsidian's reputation precedes them, thus they should do a bit more work to make sure they're alleviating that perception. Rather than re-inforcing the notion that they have no idea what they're doing and are just "making it up as they go".

Ah, so to make you happy, a Kickstarter needs to frontload all of its information on Day 1...but only if it's Obsidian's!

The truth is, that if Obsidian had done what you want, everybody would now be accusing them of underperforming due to "overwhelming people with too much information at once".

 

[skuphundaku]

No, that point still stands. My point about award-winning for Tim Schafer is that Obsidian's reputation precedes them, thus they should do a bit more work to make sure they're alleviating that perception. Rather than re-inforcing the notion that they have no idea what they're doing and are just "making it up as they go".

Ah, so to make you happy, a Kickstarter needs to frontload all of its information on Day 1...but only if it's Obsidian's!

The truth is, that if Obsidian had done what you want, everybody would now be accusing them of underperforming due to "overwhelming people with too much information at once".

All the people talking about being "overwhelmed with too much information at once" or about the "tyranny of choice" should be sent to a gulag in order to experience the complete absence of information and choice and then tell us about how that is hevan. Anyone complaining that they're overwhelmed with information, by the simple action of saying that, is automatically labeled, by me, a moron unworthy of being taken seriously.

 

[DarkUnderlord]

Ah, so to make you happy, a Kickstarter needs to frontload all of its information on Day 1...but only if it's Obsidian's!

Nope, they just need a KickStarter that doesn't suck ass and which doesn't reinforce the perception that they have no idea what they're doing.

 

[Infinitron]

Nope, they just need a KickStarter that doesn't suck ass and which doesn't reinforce the perception that they have no idea what they're doing.

Well, you'd better reroll your character cuz it seems Perception is your dump stat

 

[Spectacle]

As a side note, I wonder how much the pacing of info releases during a kickstarter campaign even matter.
All the big successful campaigns we've seen follow a similar pattern, a surge at the start; slow but steady growth in the middle and a surge at the end.
We sometimes see that a particular piece of information causes a jump in the pledges, but it's impossible to say if those pledges wouldn't have come earlier if that information had been known from the start.