Codex Interview RPG Codex Interview: Chaos Chronicles

[FeelTheRads]

it was more the case of trying to move JUST out of the reach of monsters to avoid AoOs.

Ah, yes, that too. God, that pissed me off.

 

[Mortmal]

It's a crying shame the game didn't sell well and its author decided to postpone the sequel aand instead is making a RTS game

Maybe if he wasn't such a Jew and didn't charge 25 pounds for it, it would have sold better.

I dont think 25$ is that much, remember its for a niche market D&D old school gamers, we paid more to get gold box games, KOTC is more tactical and has much better IA than those, how many still interested into that ? Now we may be entering a new golden age of rpgs, larian 2 new games, age of decadence, shadowrun, wasteland , the banner ,conquistador, obsidian new ip , deadstate(cautiously) , but we had nothing at all for years. I am still thankful we got anything at all.

 

[Grunker]

Grid = clarity = better. Cynic, we had this dicussion very extensively in the old thread: First post on the topic here.

I think ForeverdarkWoods explains very precisely during the discussion how the case of no grid is an extremely weak one, unless you really do place direct graphical immersion over gameplay (and if you do, then why the fuck are you playing a turn-based, isometric game? )

Anyway, it's a short, good discussion, and most of the points on no grid vs. grid is contained within it.

 

[HobGoblin42]

We also had this discussion about grid or no-grid. And because we already developed the technology of a free 3D combat for JA:BIA, it would have been easier to go that way in CC, too. But since the gameplay of CC should be as close as possible to classical CRPGs (and ToEE isn't) we finally decided to go with a hexgrid. It gives so much control about tactical decisions, not only on movement and facing but on placing area spells as well.

 

[Haba]

Grid can be made non-intrusive in several ways to not interfere with "graphical immersion" anyway, so yeah.

 

[commie]

I dont think 25$ is that much, remember its for a niche market D&D old school gamers, we paid more to get gold box games, KOTC is more tactical and has much better IA than those, how many still interested into that ? Now we may be entering a new golden age of rpgs, larian 2 new games, age of decadence, shadowrun, wasteland , the banner ,conquistador, obsidian new ip , deadstate(cautiously) , but we had nothing at all for years. I am still thankful we got anything at all.

Maybe not in dollars, but I get the price in Pounds so it's a fair amount. When compared to Grimrock at one end or Demise or Underworld, then it's a bit pricey for nothing especially different in quality. I understand what you're saying that it's not that much(fuck I was paying $100 for games in the 90's), but one has to look at the market. This guy whines that he didn't sell much, well he should have looked at where his product stood with regards to pricing, not in historical terms, but in a market where similar indie RPG's were selling for less.

 

[Mangoose]

Well it wasn't guessing for me honestly, I never had a problem of trying to move somewhere I couldn't, it was more the case of trying to move JUST out of the reach of monsters to avoid AoOs. I can see how some would see it as an issue, but I just never found it much of a problem and it felt kind of fresh when compared to all other grid + turn based games.

That's visualization skill, but still not cognitive thinking.

 

[felipepepe]

He clearly has no market vision, once the game was released and the initial sales were dissapointing, he just gave up. No discounts, extra promotion, or even trying to get it into Steam Greenlight nowadays... propbably because he knows he would have to sell for $5 or less to be competitive, and his pride woudn't allow it.

Really dumb approach, he doesn't have any extra cost no matter how many copies he sell now, even $1 would be profit and help raise awareness to KotC 2. I have no idea why he thinks that making a RTS would be better... especially with all those well produced kickstarter games that will surely be sold for less than $25.

 

[kaizoku]

When it comes to niche games there isn't much point in setting a low price.

However, things like GOG and Steam do change the game. And with a price tag of $15 or $10 he might indeed get some additional sales.

 

[felipepepe]

When it comes to niche games there isn't much point in setting a low price.

If your niche wasn't as big/paying as you expected, a low prices can make it interesting for those outside the niche.

Just look at Breath of Death/Chtulhu Saves the World, they are indie/ironic retake on primordial jRPGs, thats niche as fuck, but sold tons, even if half the players probably never even got past the first fight. Avernum is probably the same, $5 is okay for those new to genre to try, but fucking $25? Not going to happen.

 

[almondblight]

Well, keep in mind there are other things working against KoTC too. The name sounds pretty generic, the screenshots look bad (though I thought the game looked good when I was playing it), there are only three classes. If you just glance at the page, it seems like it's an overpriced simple RPG. I didn't have any interest in it until I kept seeing people at the Codex talk about how great it was.

A price drop could help a little now, but it's not going to make much of a difference unless the game gets more exposure (like being on Steam). Even if it drops to ten or even five dollars, who's going to know? And even the people that do hear about the price drop could easily be turned off by what looks (just by glancing at the site) to be a simplistic and ugly RPG.

 

[felipepepe]

The class stuff is true, I remenber seeing all the Codex talking about how it was the best D&D port to PCs since ToEE, then went to look and there were only 3 classes...

If he placed it on Steam Greenlight, reduced the price to $5 and gave a free steam key to everyone who purchased before, that would be worthy of a newspost on most RPGs sites and would amass some nice extra sales...

 

[FeelTheRads]

From an ideological standpoint I don't think that his game should be cheaper than the mainstream games. Fuck that shit. There's absolutely no reason why Ass Effect should cost more that KotC. Nobody is forcing them to spend millions on advertising campaigns and ultra shiny shaders and shit voice acting and other crap that gamers normally shouldn't give a fuck about. From a marketing standpoint, though, it seems to not work...

 

[commie]

From an ideological standpoint I don't think that his game should be cheaper than the mainstream games. Fuck that shit. There's absolutely no reason why Ass Effect should cost more that KotC. Nobody is forcing them to spend millions on advertising campaigns and ultra shiny shaders and shit voice acting and other crap that gamers normally shouldn't give a fuck about. From a marketing standpoint, though, it seems to not work...

But that's the problem right there: mainstream games ARE cheaper but not only them. When one can pick up Demise Ascension and Devil Whiskey in a $3 pack or Genforge Saga is going for $5 on Steam, you have to re-evaluate what you are trying to achieve. By all means start with a higher price but even then one has to add something so as not to rip off the core RPG gamer that will buy as soon as the game is released. Charles is giving an updated version of Underworld to all who bought his primitive original version for free as an example. Lifetime support, maybe a bonus class, a free DLC module eventually, for those that buy at higher price, would encourage to buy initially and give a lot of good will and loyalty for those paying the higher price. Later on you can make discounts, release with Indie bundles etc. and get the ones sitting on the fence and casuals. If they like it then they might shell out another few bucks for the extras that the original buyers got thus giving a little extra.

Spitting the dummy and going head to head with Planetary Annihilation or Company of Heroes 2 in the RTS genre where the former is $20 and the latter will be there in 6 months is another example of this guy's delusion considering he'll most probably try to sell his work for 30 quid and will likely end in tears again.

 

[felipepepe]

Meh, this is pointless, he is hellbent into not going to Steam or reducing the price. From his forum, arguing with VoD:

Make it cheap and voila, the buying decision is made easily. Every $ you make this way is a $ you wouldn't have made otherwise. That's how I see it.

At the same time, one who would have been looking for the game and be willing to pay £15 or £10, is just going to get the game for $5 because that's what it would be priced on Steam. 1 sale at £15 equals 8 sales at $3.

He simply can't see he would sell WAY MORE than 8...

 

[commie]

Meh, this is pointless, he is hellbent into not going to Steam or reducing the price. From his forum, arguing with VoD:

Make it cheap and voila, the buying decision is made easily. Every $ you make this way is a $ you wouldn't have made otherwise. That's how I see it.

At the same time, one who would have been looking for the game and be willing to pay £15 or £10, is just going to get the game for $5 because that's what it would be priced on Steam. 1 sale at £15 equals 8 sales at $3.

He simply can't see he would sell WAY MORE than 8...

Well good luck to him grabbing that one customer per week at that price when he'd have many more even at a fraction of the price to make it worthwhile. Shit, like you said, he's already made the game so there's no other expenses.

Fuck the fool. If he enjoys fuckers with RPG maker shit making several times what he has then he deserves all he gets: nothing.

 

[Cynic]

Well it wasn't guessing for me honestly, I never had a problem of trying to move somewhere I couldn't, it was more the case of trying to move JUST out of the reach of monsters to avoid AoOs. I can see how some would see it as an issue, but I just never found it much of a problem and it felt kind of fresh when compared to all other grid + turn based games.

That's visualization skill, but still not cognitive thinking.

I get that, but I don't know, the risk involved appealed to me.

Grid = clarity = better. Cynic, we had this dicussion very extensively in the old thread: First post on the topic here.

I think ForeverdarkWoods explains very precisely during the discussion how the case of no grid is an extremely weak one, unless you really do place direct graphical immersion over gameplay (and if you do, then why the fuck are you playing a turn-based, isometric game? )

Anyway, it's a short, good discussion, and most of the points on no grid vs. grid is contained within it.

Fair enough. I'm not saying I hate the grid or anything and yeah I guess it does allow for more precise tactical options. In your point above about graphical immersion vs gameplay, probably for me ToEE just felt very fresh because of its approach combined with 3E rules.
Can't wait to see some videos of the gameplay/combat of CC.

 

[Grunker]

New screens:

Not much to say. The locales look awesome and the character models are pretty ugly, but whatever.

There's also a new developer blog talking about squares vs. hexes: http://chaos-chronicles.com/

 

[Tuco Benedicto Pacifico]

Not much to say. The locales look awesome and the character models are pretty ugly, but whatever.

As far as they are going to be decently animated, I find them pretty enough.

 

[Grunker]

Yeah, I looked a little closer and upon further consideration I find them pretty okay.

The one with the barret is fucking ugly, though.

 

[General Maxson]

This looks good.

 

[catfood]

New screens:

Not much to say. The locales look awesome and the character models are pretty ugly, but whatever.

There's also a new developer blog talking about squares vs. hexes: http://chaos-chronicles.com/

This screen looks really good. It also makes me wonder if battles take place on a flat plane exclusively, or if elevation is also taken into account and all the factors it entails. Storming a staircase would make an excelent combat encounter.

 

[MicoSelva]

This looks good.

 

[DwarvenFood]

Very promising ! Got the atmosphere nailed down IMO.

 

[Jarpie]

Looks pretty damn good, would be nice to see some UI too though, even if it's WIP.