RPG Codex Interview: Chris Avellone on Pillars Cut Content, Game Development Hierarchies and More

[Kz3r0]

- My wife

When, How, Why, Whom???!!!

 

[TalesfromtheCrypt]

You did a great job of explaining why FU is so poorly suited for his present role. Would you mind doing the same for Parker? As in, why is Chris Parker such a prick?

This is a very long answer, so I’ll condense it: nepotism (family and friends), works hard but often ineffectively, has poor designer skills but actively gets involved in design (Josh simply started ignoring him after a while, which became a pattern Parker didn’t even have time to notice), and in many ways, Parker is like a little Feargus except he works harder and gets more involved, which causes problems.

Parker’s behavior with Feargus during the PoE KS drive final hours was soul-crushing. While usually these fights were brief, they became longer and longer between the two.

He repeats a lot of the same mistakes and never seems to learn from them – and it’s embarrassing to have to remind him of them when he brings them up in front of others and asks your opinion.

One very specific thing: Both Chris Parker and Feargus have a wonderful habit of giving you room to come to a solution, and then when you when you present the solution, they tell you “it wasn’t the solution they hoped you would choose” (they already had one in mind), and then tell you to go with their decision. Here’s the thing – I don’t even care about that, but in a company where there’s never enough time and never enough money, you can’t waste so much as a day on dithering bullshit – just tell me what you want, if I have a problem with it, I’ll tell you, but chances are, I’ll agree and find a way to make it work and we won’t spend even more time arguing about how we got to this in the first place.

We had this happen on KOTOR2 (I finally had to give up and give Chris the interface, which he wasted months of developer time on – and the programmers we needed - for almost no result). Feargus did something similar when Feargus asked us to decide who should be narrative lead on Eternity – and then when we said, “we should offer the job to George Ziets,” Feargus just said, “no, you should have chosen Eric.”

So George Ziets was supposed to be narrative lead on PoE1 but was cockblocked by Feargus... imagine what could have been

 

[Goral]

At Obsidian, you just work longer hours for no compensation unless you are hourly, which makes mistakes and unnecessary changes that happen more frustrating.

WTF? Anthony Davis , can you confirm that? Why would anyone want to work in such a shithole?

For an introvert, it also means your emotional batteries don't get drained as fast.

You introvert? Don't look like one at all.

I love Vince's game, setting, characters, etc. and have been talking with him about it (I reviewed everything to date except the monks and talked to him about it). I haven't been able to get back to him as quickly as I'd like because it's a writing deadline week.

There was one telling meeting where Chris Parker told the company they were hiring someone to replace him for his position "to do what he did", and someone raised their hand and said, “but Chris, we don’t know what it is you do.”

:D

 

[Tramboi]

Sad stuff about Obsidian

I've seen quite a lot of shitty managers and producers during my career in the game industry in France (lead programmer).
Wealthy nasty kids with bloated egos having studios, owners that would have liked better to be film makers, nepotism, inability to make decisions, stubbornness, lack of professionalism, inability to listen and sheer idiocy. Happened all the time.
At some point I thought, why not going in the US, maybe at Obsidian or InXile to work at least once on a RPG, but I'm glad I didn't.
And it's supposedly easier for tech people because our work is supposed to be more factual/less debatable. I can't imagine the life of a writer with a shitty boss giving shitty artistic advice.

 

[Sensuki]

A.D. can you confirm that? Why would anyone want to work in such a shithole?

Most employees won't publicly badmouth their workplace on the internet unless under some form of anonymity, and certainly not in a thread several of their co-workers are watching.

99% sure that the company will have issued a gag order on any further responses from anyone currently employed until they decide on their official action, if any. We won't see anything until after the Pillars 2 launch, either.

Requests have also likely gone out to the big games journalism sites to not cover the issue, maybe with a subtle threat of possible litigation if they do

Currently this is just a storm in a teacup. It's only an issue for them if it hits the main gaming press, and they'll do what they can to prevent it.

I'm not totally sure how much Chris has planned this, but it does seem like a smart idea to bring this up within a fortnight of the Pillars launch because it gives him a few weeks of news and word of mouth spreading before they can do anything about it without harming the Pillars 2 launch.

 

[Goral]

When, How, Why, Whom???!!!

http://www.rpgcodex.net/forums/inde...eciation-station.101693/page-167#post-5398532

http://estelletigani.com/blog/

 

[Monkey Baron]

There was one telling meeting where Chris Parker told the company they were hiring someone to replace him for his position "to do what he did", and someone raised their hand and said, “but Chris, we don’t know what it is you do.”

 

[SausageInYourFace]

has poor designer skills but actively gets involved in design (Josh simply started ignoring him after a while, which became a pattern Parker didn’t even have time to notice)

 

[AN4RCHID]

When, How, Why, Whom???!!!

http://www.rpgcodex.net/forums/inde...eciation-station.101693/page-167#post-5398532

Dayum

 

[Bohr]

Ziets... could have been the PE story lead?

This is killing me

 

[HeatEXTEND]

There was one telling meeting where Chris Parker told the company they were hiring someone to replace him for his position "to do what he did", and someone raised their hand and said, “but Chris, we don’t know what it is you do.”

The classic.

 

[Fairfax]

Throwback to that anonymous comment by a dev who worked on AP:

There was a ton of work put into this game. The problem is that is was a ton of undirected work, or work on things that were just stupid. The Executive Producer for the game, Chris Parker (also an owner of the company), seemed to think he was the world's greatest designer ever, and created all these absolutely shitty systems and wouldn't listen to any of the real designers or devs about things that just didn't work. And you can't exactly argue with one of the owners of the company when he doesn't want to listen. He basically took over the game and dictated exactly how everything would work (or not work, as the case may be). The other producers realized this early on and just gave up, leaving Parker to micromanage all the designers and programmers directly.

Sega also was a factor, because they kept changing the design requirements (yes they had heavy influence there), which never gave the producers and designers time to actually decide on one set of features to make and polish. The blame is still mostly Obsidian's because the execution was absolutely terrible, and it was obvious 2 years ago that this game should have been scrapped. Instead, though, they focused on adding still more features and never fixed the ones they already had. That is a recipe for tons of bugs and no polish... as is obvious.

This game was just an absolute failure of production, and it's no wonder that so many of the developers left the company, even after the 40% staff layoffs. I am still happy about some of Obsidian's other current projects, New Vegas included, because they are going pretty well. Their big unannounced project is looking great and is already much better than AP ever was, and that may end up being the game that everyone was looking for with AP.

Sega should have canceled AP instead of Aliens...

 

[Kz3r0]

How the hell has Obsidian lasted so long with him in charge?

Based on a similar personal experience of mine by selling short the company's services while underpaying employees, and getting an hefty percentage on the contracts signed even if they are detrimental to the company's finances.

 

[Kyl Von Kull]

This is feeling less and less like the basis for a nice revenge story and more like a pure tragedy. That one of the last great RPG studios has been so heinously mismanaged is such a fucking shame for the whole genre and all of us who love it. Presumably KOTOR 2 could’ve been released in a finished state if not for Parker, which means we wouldn’t have had to wait years for the restored content mod to transform it from a flawed gem into a masterpiece. Who knows, we might have gotten Stormlands or a truly completed Tyranny or, waaay back in the day, the very cool looking Torn.

Edit—mods, admins, oldfags: do Brian Mitsoda or George Zeits have accounts here? They might have a lot to add to the discussion.

Chris Avellone I feel like you’re on a roll here with these Obsidian management failures, so how about the last two owners, Chris Jones and Darren? Were they particularly egregious or just too spineless to stand up for competence? Or, as some of have speculated, did FU and Parker have enough shares or board seats between them to dictate policy when they were in agreement? I imagine it would be very helpful to many of your former colleagues to know exactly where the rot is spreading from.

By the same token, if Feargus and Parker were somehow forced out, would you be willing to work with Obsidian again assuming they paid you standard human stretch goal rates? Like let’s say Strauss Zelnick loves Indiana, buys the studio, and forces these douchebags into retirement?

 

[Enkidu]

This was probably asked already but at least i didnt saw. You seem to be pretty comfortable and happy with your freelance status, according to your answer about how you are better in financial terms now.
Do you see yourself having to go back to a office to work in the future? and actually more important, doing a game/setting that you have a real desire to create?
Thank you for your time Chris, and exploiting this post, since Fairfax is talking about Alpha Protocol. I'm still waiting for a game with dialogue on that same level. (being polished would'nt hurt tough.)

 

[Kz3r0]

Another issue was not stopping to think before launching an action. As an example, Parker and other employees spent months trying to help someone get their immigration settled. It cost a lot of time, was distracting, and was a time sensitive matter. But as we were nearing the finish line of a months-long process, Chris Parker suddenly asked, “do we even want to keep her?” I couldn’t believe what I was hearing – you’re saying this now? Didn't you think this through?

Oh God it's about that Eastern Euro cutie who did art for Pillars

So they had second thoughts because she drefused to put it up?

 

[Zed]

chris make your own company, and poach ziets from the toilet that is inxile. then hire euros who would work for peanuts just to be involved in an avellone game :russiastronk:

 

[Prime Junta]

This is feeling less and less like the basis for a nice revenge story and more like a pure tragedy. That one of the last great RPG studios has been so heinously mismanaged is such a fucking shame for the whole genre and all of us who love it. Presumably KOTOR 2 could’ve been released in a finished state if not for Parker, which means we wouldn’t have had to wait years for the restored content mod to transform it from a flawed gem into a masterpiece. Who knows, we might have gotten Stormlands or a truly completed Tyranny or, waaay back in the day, the very cool looking Torn.

You should've written two posts because I really wanted to brofist this part, while the question is interesting. There is genuine talent and dedication at Obsidian. If only that could have been allowed to flower to its fullest.

Spoiler

Next time, make it a cooperative. Everyone's an owner!

 

[Prime Junta]

So they had second thoughts because she drefused to put it up?

Ooh, now that would be a hit below the waterline. Glug glug...

 

[Goral]

Darth Roxor was right (or should I say "Infinitron was more than wrong").

 

[Quillon]

Sounds like Obs was* where RPG enthusiast devs go, agree to work under normal wages; make gems that are unpolished cos of dat management then leave or get laid off. But now(If I'm to wildly & observantly guess) what we can see from Pillars team; it looks like everything's working smoothly; they even hit the goal they set from a year ago(maybe missed by a month). Guess Ferg and Parker left that team alone---to Josh & Adam. Hope they didn't dive into Tim & Leo's project instead then

But most important question is will Feargus get his Ferrari or Lamborghini after Deadfire?

 

[Prime Junta]

Sounds like Obs was* where RPG enthusiast devs go, agree to work under normal wages; make gems that are unpolished cos of dat management then leave or get laid off. But now(If I'm to wildly & observantly guess) what we can see from Pillars team; it looks like everything's working smoothly; they even hit the goal they set from a year ago(maybe missed by a month).

Obsidian: where talent and passion go to die.

 

[Kz3r0]

Next time, make it a cooperative. Everyone's an owner!

It will be worse, trust me.
There is a reason why both Stalin and Mao switched to a fully centralized economy.

 

[Prime Junta]

The companies which need it apparently wouldn't have enough money to hire you.

Hm... what if I agreed to work for a slice of the revenue of the finished game?

 

[Diablo169]

Oh my fucking god, Ziets could have been the narrative lead on Pillars? Some things man was not meant to know!