Oblivion fails exactly in this regard. I mean it has tonnes of stats and abilities, and yet it is unresponsive, unreactive, the world is an empty void which does not account for anything you are doing. Oblivion is the very incarnation of a stat-centric game.
Except it isn't. Stats are almost meaningless in Oblivion because of the level scaling and because of the overall terrible design of the character system by Bethesderp. They basically give the player in-game hacks to increase your powers to stupid level... all in the name of E-Larping. That's what happens when you don't constrain the players in terms of stats/builds/mutually exclusive branches of development.
Ok, so what in your opinion is E-LARP? Until now I was convinced it was about you doing stuff in the gameworld and it not giving a damn. For example, "I close the door behind me, because that's what my character would do" or "I go to close the Oblibion Gates immediately because the world is in peril, so what the game couldn't care less?". What is your definition.
The E-LARP you talk about is a byproduct. Because the world does not react to players' actions they have to create their own headcannon and pretend their behaviour matters. I think
Daniel.Vavra attempts to go in the opposite direction.
It's not a byproduct it is intentional by the game's very design. Wasn't one of its taglines: 'Live another life' or some nonsense like that?[/quote]
Hmm. It may be you are right in the case of Bethesda's marketing, but the point still stands. Oblivion is a piece of crap because its reactivity is limited, ergo od doesn't live up to its promises. There's no suspension of disbelief in the land of cardboards.
Actually you do. All the elements above are what creates immersion in the game. This is what you respond to: *you* figuring out multiple solutions to quests (instead of e.g. clicking "[Diplomacy] I win"), *you* building your character to play it (not him playing the game for you), *you* exploring, and you facing foes (as opposed to rolling dice which determines if you won or not) Stats are just your means of securing that... but they also can prevent it, because they are... *duh*, static. In some games they may undermine all the facets that you care about. When taken to excess stats may turn the *game* into an interactive screen-saver.
No, they don't create immersion -- they are simply good elements of an RPG. Has nothing to do with me transposing myself into a fictional character.[/quote]
But they do create immersion - they are what makes every action of yours matter. When you *want* to see what the next quest will be, or to play a motherfucking Viking with all the pros and cons of being one, to see the consequences of your actions and how they influence the world around you (including the gameplay) - this is genuine immersion.
Just consider for a moment why fetch quests are so lame (maybe because they are purely procedural, boring stuff unassociated with your character - why should you do busywork, when you became a viking for a reason?), or why killing a goddamn dragon is more satisfying than steamrolling a pack of rats (maybe because challenge creates immersion? Substitute the dragon with a bunch of stat-bloated rats [with the same skin and size] and see what happens). Or how when you pick a thief you expect the world and the gameplay to provide you with appropriate gameplay and quests befitting this class?
You may not care about stuff like plot, but you will always care if there is interesting stuff to do and how it's presented to you.
You could contrast that with IMMERSHUN where you are TOLD how you should feel or react (through cutscenes - Bioware Style) or be left on your own in a sandbox to create youe headcanon, while the gameworld doesn't give a damn (Bethesda's school of thought).
The argument here comes down to form vs. function. You don't play an RPG to fumble around with stats or gain abilities just because they have different names and numbers are so cool (form). You do so to see what happens when you *use* those stats and abilities in action (function).
As you might expect IMO, RPGs are defined exactly by function - the form is a fluff that can change however the designer wills it.