Interview RPG Codex Interview: Dan Vávra (Warhorse Studios)

[Irenaeus]

RPG without stats? Is this even possible?

 

[Daniel.Vavra]

So I have ritually destroyed all my consoles, because they are the root of all evil in the world and I decided to create something "true" for those who have the "knowledge". Something like this...

BTW: we had quite long discussion about what is true RPG, I refreshed my memory by reading the history of RPGs, and tried to search the definition of what RPG is. I didnt found any definitions stating something about controllers, skillbased gameplay or even necessity to have stats. I totally agree with this: "The variety of role playing games makes it inherently challenging to provide a common definition. However, all forms of role playing games – be they PnP RPGs, CRPGs, MMORPGs or LARPS - share a group of characteristics, which makes them identifiable from other types of games: storytelling with rules, control of fictional characters, a fictitious reality, usually the presence of a game master (or game engine), and at least one player." Amen.

You miss the point so much that it is scary.
I hope you are trolling.
Of course real time games like the elder scroll are cRPG (i have only play Daggerfall and Morrowind though).
The gameplay of those games have advantages but also huge disadvantages over turn based.
They don't play the same way at all and you can't achieve the same result. It's totally different games.
So claiming one system is evolution over the other does not have sense.

Is the cinema evolution of theater? Hell it is! Is it superior in many ways? Yes! Has it killed theater? No! Has theater lot of advantrages over cinema? Yes!
Is CRPG evolution of tabletop RPG? Hell it is! Is it superior in many ways? Yes! (You dont have to imagine do ing something, you may actually do it and see it, you dont need to roll the dices, computer does it for you, you dont need to write a questlog...) Has it killed tabletop? No! Has tabletop lot of advantages over CRPG? Yes.
Are cars evolution compared to horses? Yes! etc...

 

[Captain Shrek]

Is the cinema evolution of theater? Hell it is! Is it superior in many ways? Yes! Has it killed theater? No! Has theater lot of advantrages over cinema? Yes!
Is CRPG evolution of tabletop RPG? Hell it is! Is it superior in many ways? Yes! (You dont have to imagine do ing something, you may actually do it and see it, you dont need to roll the dices, computer does it for you, you dont need to write a questlog...) Has it killed tabletop? No! Has tabletop lot of advantages over CRPG? Yes.
Are cars evolution compared to horses? Yes! etc...

Although I admit that CRPGs allow better means to visualize I am not convinced that it is an evolution of the genre, with a positive connotation of evolution. Come on! The Video Game has video in it. Which means the cRPGs HAVE TO BE VISUAL. The evolution of the GENRE would have required some fundamental change in the genre specific features. That is why your analogy of Theater -> Cinema is fallacious and highly misleading. Cinema indeed does offer better means to visualize an already visual medium, but is theater an evolution of Novels? That is the kind of comparison you are making here,

 

[felipepepe]

Is the cinema evolution of theater? Hell it is! Is it superior in many ways? Yes! Has it killed theater? No! Has theater lot of advantrages over cinema? Yes!

I hate this paralel with RPGs... makes it look like what the Codex trully want is a "Dogville" equivalent of a cRPG.

 

[Quigs]

You dont have to imagine

Imagination is not a hurdle to overcome, it's what you should hope to trigger in your audience.

 

[tuluse]

Is the cinema evolution of theater? Hell it is! Is it superior in many ways? Yes! Has it killed theater? No! Has theater lot of advantrages over cinema? Yes!

I hate this paralel with RPGs... makes it look like what the Codex trully want is a "Dogville" equivalent of a cRPG.

That would certainly be interesting.

 

[evdk]

Is the cinema evolution of theater? Hell it is! Is it superior in many ways? Yes! Has it killed theater? No! Has theater lot of advantrages over cinema? Yes!

I hate this paralel with RPGs... makes it look like what the Codex trully want is a "Dogville" equivalent of a cRPG.

Nope, Codex is moving pretty much within the constraint of cRPGs, so what we actually want is "The Thing (1982)" instead of "The Thing (2011)"

 

[Smejki]

So claiming one system is evolution over the other does not have sense.

I don't think he ever claimed any system to be superior to another. Evolution doesn't mean strive for perfection but for change. And evoltionary processes decide wich changes are for good a which will die.

 

[Metro]

The burning question: can you be a dragon?!

 

[Smejki]

RPG without stats? Is this even possible?

Well, yeah. Never seen one such game, but RPG might be just about changing world state variables. Wheter we like it or not, the character progress as we know it is in most games for sake of creating stronger motivation to play and is very ...eh... synthetic, artificial, nowhere close to functioning of real world.

The burning question: can you be a dragon?!

It is not going to be fantasy

 

[Wizfall]

Is the cinema evolution of theater? Hell it is! Is it superior in many ways? Yes! Has it killed theater? No! Has theater lot of advantrages over cinema? Yes!
Is CRPG evolution of tabletop RPG? Hell it is! Is it superior in many ways? Yes! (You dont have to imagine do ing something, you may actually do it and see it, you dont need to roll the dices, computer does it for you, you dont need to write a questlog...) Has it killed tabletop? No! Has tabletop lot of advantages over CRPG? Yes.
Are cars evolution compared to horses? Yes! etc...

Yes and no.
By evolution you clearly mean progress.
Real time is not a progress but i concede it may be somehow seen as an evolution.
But then in this case you can see turn based game as an evolution over earlier real time games like Pong so the argument is quite shallow.

 

[Mrowak]

Is the cinema evolution of theater? Hell it is! Is it superior in many ways? Yes! Has it killed theater? No! Has theater lot of advantrages over cinema? Yes!
Is CRPG evolution of tabletop RPG? Hell it is! Is it superior in many ways? Yes! (You dont have to imagine do ing something, you may actually do it and see it, you dont need to roll the dices, computer does it for you, you dont need to write a questlog...) Has it killed tabletop? No! Has tabletop lot of advantages over CRPG? Yes.
Are cars evolution compared to horses? Yes! etc...

Yes and no.
By evolution you clearly mean progress.
Real time is not a progress but i concede it may be somehow seen as an evolution.
But then in this case you can see turn based game as an evolution over earlier real time games like Pong so the argument is quite shallow.

eh... I think what Daniel meant is that there is nothing to argue about here. You may see the direction they are going as a regression, but ultimately it only means that you are not going to buy their game and opt for classics and indie title. If you hate cinema there is still nothing stopping you from enjoying the theatre.

 

[Wizfall]

Is the cinema evolution of theater? Hell it is! Is it superior in many ways? Yes! Has it killed theater? No! Has theater lot of advantrages over cinema? Yes!
Is CRPG evolution of tabletop RPG? Hell it is! Is it superior in many ways? Yes! (You dont have to imagine do ing something, you may actually do it and see it, you dont need to roll the dices, computer does it for you, you dont need to write a questlog...) Has it killed tabletop? No! Has tabletop lot of advantages over CRPG? Yes.
Are cars evolution compared to horses? Yes! etc...

Yes and no.
By evolution you clearly mean progress.
Real time is not a progress but i concede it may be somehow seen as an evolution.
But then in this case you can see turn based game as an evolution over earlier real time games like Pong so the argument is quite shallow.

eh... I think what Daniel meant is that there is nothing to argue about here. You may see the direction they are going as a regression, but ultimately it only means that you are not going to buy their game and opt for classics and indie title. If you hate cinema there is still nothing stopping you from enjoying the theatre.

The cinema/theater analogy is a bad one.
But let's take it.
When Daniel says (i quote)
"I simply dont see any reason why should I use turn based combat with dice throws, when its possible to do simulate very realistic and sophosticated realtime combat"
"Thats progress"
And next show a screenshot of an old wizardry game (i think), my understanding is that he is saying turn based game is shit or at least obsolete and real time always superior.
It's like if i was posting a screenshot of Arena (the first elder scroll) and next to it a screenshot of fallout 1/2 or W2 and claiming real time is shit.
It's totally different.
Also I don't hate cinema and i don't hate real time.
I enjoyed FNV for exemple but i like much better TB.
Nothing wrong with real time cRPG but don't say/imply bullshit about turn based game being obsolete.

 

[Oesophagus]

Don't worry, Dan - the 'dex hates everything and everyone as a rule

 

[Mrowak]

Nothing wrong with real time cRPG but don't say/imply bullshit about turn based game being obsolete.

You are reading too much into it.

 

[Wizfall]

Nothing wrong with real time cRPG but don't say/imply bullshit about turn based game being obsolete.

You are reading too much into it.

If you say so.
So i will give him constructive reasons about using turn based system over real time as he claims he doesn't see any (because i don't believe he has found the magic formula to combine all the advantage of turn based and real time combat without the disadvantage) : it can be more sophisticated, more character skills based instead of gamer reflex based and it could be played at a different pace.
That doesn"t mean in any way he should adopt a TB system if he likes better real time or his gameplay is real time designed though.

 

[Scruffy]

if you make games "realistic", they just become life simulations. i want rpgs, not a more detailed sims.

 

[Irenaeus]

if you make games "realistic", they just become life simulations. i want rpgs, not a more detailed sims.

But what if the "reality" they are simulating isn't real, that is, fiction?

 

[Scruffy]

if you make games "realistic", they just become life simulations. i want rpgs, not a more detailed sims.

But what if the "reality" they are simulating isn't real, that is, fiction?

then they're not realistic, they're fictional

 

[Dorateen]

I will choose Chaos Chronicles, which reflects inherently superior RPG design philosophy.

 

[Daniel.Vavra]

I think some of you is taking it to the extremes. I was talking about MY APPROACH to the GAME I AM CURRENTLY MAKING. This game is going to be realtime, 3D, single player, realistic. I decided as an author, that this is the best approach to let the player experience what I woul like to. It doesnt mean, that other types of RPGs are wrong. I would love to make old school 2D RPG with turn based combat for tablets one day, because it seems as and ideal platform for that and there arent many good games like that. Laser Squad and Jagged Alliance 2 are one of my favourite games of all time and they are turn based. But for the game we are making, for its story and for the experience I want to create, the approach I chose is the best. At least in my opinion. And I strongly believe, that I could call it RPG. I cant say more about the game, its still too early, I am sorry.

 

[tuluse]

I think some of you is taking it to the extremes.

Welcome to the codex Dan.

 

[Gakkone]

"I'm not saying it's not an rpg..."

"But it's not an rpg."

 

[hiver]

cmonn... i hurt myself writing those questions. Extreme secx, extreme violence and ego pandering! Core features of modern RPGS!



btw, you can call your game an action sandbox fantasy simulator with light RPG elements.
Or just action RPG.
A real "hard core" RPG it is not.



want a definition? Try this one for size:

"An RPG is a game where a player creates and controls one or more characters, whose capacity to affect quests, events, stories and gameplay of the gameworld are limited and governed by values of their skills and-or abilities - in confluence with players skills - which can never completely override limitations of the character skills.
While the story, gameplay, and quests of the gameworld in turn can be opened, closed or otherwise changed, to bigger or smaller degree - and thus provide differing consequences and different gameplay - depending on confluence of player skill with limits imposed by the skills and abilities of game characters he created.

Same goes with other features such as collecting items, equipment, loot or info - knowledge."


The less limits there is - less of an RPG the game is and goes more towards action, exploration sub genres.

Turn based combat is simply better for this main core feature. Because RT invariably leads to player skill overruling character skills.
Though of course this doesnt mean that there cannot be RPGs with RT combat.
The genre became very broad. But thats why sub genres exist.

 

[Daniel.Vavra]

Hiver: In realtime combat, my skills might be limited by the stats of my character (strenght, agility, stamina), set of available attacks he leardned during the game, his current status (health, armor, weight of equipment), weapon and my skill to use it... only difference between TB and RT is, that in TB i press FIGHT button and computer throws a dice and in RT i press a button and computer throws a dice, but I have extra possibility to control where, when and how will I attack. My chances of winning against better opponent are still very low. If done "right" the fact that its realtime doesnt make the game easier, but harder. If I fight the best way possible, I have the same chance of winning as if I am lucky in TB. But if I am not good in combat, I will screw up much harder then I would in TB. So its not about how much RPG it is, its about personal preference.

And sorry, I cant talk about any details