Codex Preview RPG Codex Report: Expeditions: Conquistador, Logic Artists and Kickstarter

[Aterdux Entertainment]

Not necessarily, and certainly not in this way. Not necessarily, since the core aspect of the game is single player, the question is whether MP would detract from that aspect and whether the target customers (those who would play the SP game) are interested in the MP functionality or think of it as a resource sink (I, for one, am not interested in multiplayer games). Not in this way, because they should have been upfront about the possibility of adding the MP while the Kickstarter campaign lasted.

I respectfully disagree. Statistics show that MP aspect of the game (independent on the type of the game) attracts larger audience of players. I don't have a quote to back my claim but I heard it from many different sources and I believe it to be true.

We all seem to agree it was handled not in the best way.

And Infinitron is right, they wouldn't get to Steam in two months. Maybe, not even in a year, Greenlight is tough. Unless something changes and Steam starts taking more games per Greenlight or somehow increases the number of greenlit titles in another way.

 

[Aterdux Entertainment]

Who said anything about a year? Why construct hypothetical arguments where the 2 months delay totally makes sense?

Steam generally accepts games that get good reviews and positive reaction. So far the game got very positive reviews, so there is nothing there to suggest that they couldn't get on Steam 2-3 months after the release. If they needed money now, releasing it on the other platforms would have done the trick. Sure, Steam is better, but GoG, GG, and Desura are pretty good too and very friendly toward indies, probably more so than Steam.

Do you want your distribution to be friendly or to bring in more income? Just friendly doesn't do it, sorry...

 

[Stelcio]

Maybe I'm mistaken but didn't they say somewhere that the game would be made even if Kickstarter wasn't an option for them and they only went croudfunding to increase the scope of the game to fulfill their initial vision? I'm too lazy to browse through all of their posts here and all of the updates.

Anyway if I'm right, why would they end up being on a verge of bankrupcy all of a sudden?

And even if they are, why not saying straight up that they need money fast?

I respectfully disagree. Statistics show that MP aspect of the game (independent on the type of the game) attracts larger audience of players. I don't have a quote to back my claim but I heard it from many different sources and I believe it to be true.

Were these statistics related to specific type and scope of game like Expedition: Conquistadors?

 

[Vault Dweller]

Do you want your distribution to be friendly or to bring in more income? Just friendly doesn't do it, sorry...

We start focusing on more income, we're back to square one before we know it.

And Infinitron is right, they wouldn't get to Steam in two months. Maybe, not even in a year, Greenlight is tough. Unless something changes and Steam starts taking more games per Greenlight or somehow increases the number of greenlit titles in another way.

Greenlight is tough, but it's not the only way to get on Steam. Games were getting on Steam long before Greenlight was introduced.

I respectfully disagree. Statistics show that MP aspect of the game (independent on the type of the game) attracts larger audience of players.

So is real time.

 

[Grunker]

Do you want your distribution to be friendly or to bring in more income? Just friendly doesn't do it, sorry...

We start focusing on more income, we're back to square one before we know it.

Focusing in on income via distribution =/= focusing on income by changing gameplay.

 

[Infinitron]

Greenlight is tough, but it's not the only way to get on Steam. Games were getting on Steam long before Greenlight was introduced.

It is now.

http://steamcommunity.com/workshop/about/?appid=765&section=faq

Who should submit their games to Steam Greenlight? Is there another way to submit my game to Steam?

Steam Greenlight has replaced our previous submission process. Any developer or publisher who is new to Steam and interested in submitting their game to the platform should submit their game through Steam Greenlight.

 

[janjetina]

Statistics show that MP aspect of the game (independent on the type of the game) attracts larger audience of players. I don't have a quote to back my claim but I heard it from many different sources and I believe it to be true.

There is such thing as a sampling bias* and it plays a very strong part in an analysis of a situation such as this one. People who are interested in a multiplayer might not be interested in a core single player game with a MP add-on, but a full MP oriented game. An average player, who was a part of the sample in the statistical analysis, might not be interested in a SP TB based RPG at all. Relying on averages and majorities, while disregarding the niche leads to design by committee, which is a big problem in current game industry that Kickstarter is addressing.

*Take a look at: http://work.caltech.edu/library/172.html

 

[Vault Dweller]

Greenlight is tough, but it's not the only way to get on Steam. Games were getting on Steam long before Greenlight was introduced.

It is now.

http://steamcommunity.com/workshop/about/?appid=765&section=faq

Who should submit their games to Steam Greenlight? Is there another way to submit my game to Steam?

Steam Greenlight has replaced our previous submission process. Any developer or publisher who is new to Steam and interested in submitting their game to the platform should submit their game through Steam Greenlight.

Does it say it's the only way?

 

[Infinitron]

Greenlight is tough, but it's not the only way to get on Steam. Games were getting on Steam long before Greenlight was introduced.

It is now.

http://steamcommunity.com/workshop/about/?appid=765&section=faq

Who should submit their games to Steam Greenlight? Is there another way to submit my game to Steam?

Steam Greenlight has replaced our previous submission process. Any developer or publisher who is new to Steam and interested in submitting their game to the platform should submit their game through Steam Greenlight.

Does it say it's the only way?

If you're new to Steam then yes.

 

[Vault Dweller]

Where?

Edit: Most companies have various rules in places, most of these rules can be easily bypassed.

The wording is very specific here. Its goal is to make sure that most people follow the established process to avoid creating chaos, but it leaves an open door for anyone who wants to contact them directly.

"Is there another way?" No answer. All new developers should submit... Should, not must.

 

[Infinitron]

For fuck's sake man, admit that you were wrong here.

Steam Greenlight has replaced our previous submission process.

 

[Vault Dweller]

How fucking old are you? Do you truly believe everything that's written on some faq? Do you truly believe that if a developer with a well-reviewed game would email them and inquire about putting the game up on Steam they would tell him "no, sorry, rules are rules, please submit the game according to the faq"? Jesus.

Steam is business. They smell on opportunity to make some money, they will go for it instantly. At the same time they don't want to deal with shitty little games so they established the process aimed to thin out the herd.

 

[Stelcio]

OK so what? Even if Greenlight would be their only way to get to Steam by themselves, the only plausible explanation to delay the game JUST TO GET TO STEAM EARLIER is that they are on a verge of bankrupcy and REALLY need to make as much money as possible quickly to remain on surface.

Is there any single indication that they may have financial problems? ANY?

 

[Infinitron]

Steam is business. They smell on opportunity to make some money, they will go for it instantly. At the same time they don't want to deal with shitty little games so they established the process aimed to thin out the herd.

Even if that's true, they wouldn't go for this game. They even made Wadjet Eye (an internationally known cult adventure game developer) go on Greenlight and they already had games on Steam!

 

[Vault Dweller]

Do you want your distribution to be friendly or to bring in more income? Just friendly doesn't do it, sorry...

We start focusing on more income, we're back to square one before we know it.

Focusing in on income via distribution =/= focusing on income by changing gameplay.

Slippery slope is slippery.

 

[Vault Dweller]

Steam is business. They smell on opportunity to make some money, they will go for it instantly. At the same time they don't want to deal with shitty little games so they established the process aimed to thin out the herd.

Even if that's true, they wouldn't go for this game. They even made Wadjet Eye go on Greenlight and they already had games on Steam!

Wouldn't go why? It doesn't look as good as Avernum?

 

[Infinitron]

Steam is business. They smell on opportunity to make some money, they will go for it instantly. At the same time they don't want to deal with shitty little games so they established the process aimed to thin out the herd.

Even if that's true, they wouldn't go for this game. They even made Wadjet Eye go on Greenlight and they already had games on Steam!

Wouldn't go why? It doesn't look as good as Avernum?

See for yourself: http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=108108057

 

[Grunker]

Do you want your distribution to be friendly or to bring in more income? Just friendly doesn't do it, sorry...

We start focusing on more income, we're back to square one before we know it.

Focusing in on income via distribution =/= focusing on income by changing gameplay.

Slippery slope is slippery.

And slippery slope arguments are fallacies 99% of the time.

 

[Vault Dweller]

Infinitron:

I was talking about the Conquistador game. It looks sharp, the presentation is top notch, it got Kickstarted. I can't speak for Primordia as I have no idea if the developer tried to contact them directly or just entered the game like everyone else.

 

[Vault Dweller]

Do you want your distribution to be friendly or to bring in more income? Just friendly doesn't do it, sorry...

We start focusing on more income, we're back to square one before we know it.

Focusing in on income via distribution =/= focusing on income by changing gameplay.

Slippery slope is slippery.

And slippery slope arguments are fallacies 99% of the time.

99%? Really? Well, that sounds like a lot and totally not made up. Carry on then.

 

[Infinitron]

Infinitron:

I was talking about the Conquistador game. It looks sharp, the presentation is top notch, it got Kickstarted. I can't speak for Primordia as I have no idea if the developer tried to contact them directly or just entered the game like everyone else.

He did: http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2012-11-20-steam-greenlight-three-months-later

So Greenlight seems to be doing well for first time developers, but how about those who previously had games accepted internally who are now being asked to go through the less personal Greenlight process?

That's the case for indie adventure game publisher Wadjet Eye, who's now being asked to submit its sci-fi point-and-click adventure Primordia to Greenlight after its previous title, Resonance, had been accepted by Valve almost immediately.

Wadjet Eye founder Dave Gilbert didn't seem particularly discouraged by this. To him, rejection from Steam was par for the course. "Gemini Rue, our runaway biggest hit, was rejected twice by them before they finally accepted it," Gilbert explained. "In fact, Steam has rejected almost every one of our games only to change their minds later, so this situation is nothing new!

"I sent our Primordia pitch (which included several preview quotes from the coverage we gathered, basically the same way we'd pitched Resonance) to my usual contact at Steam, but I received a boilerplate rejection letter from somebody else I hadn't spoken with before. It was the same letter that I'd seen before, but with the addition of, 'I highly suggest putting together a page on Steam Greenlight.' Lacking any other option, that's what we did."

 

[Grunker]

This has now turned into a discussion where VD's random opinions outweigh whatever sources we can possibly dig up. What's the use of arguing? Infinitron points to Steam having new approval procedures - VD tells us that's not the way it really works (oh, he knows, take his word for it, that's all we have!). I point to the only knowledge we have on why the game is delayed - VD tells us the REAL reason (again, take his word for it people!).

This discussion is pointless. There is no reason to argue if whatever ass-pulled opinion one of the participants have are as legit as an actual source.

Do you want your distribution to be friendly or to bring in more income? Just friendly doesn't do it, sorry...

We start focusing on more income, we're back to square one before we know it.

Focusing in on income via distribution =/= focusing on income by changing gameplay.

Slippery slope is slippery.

And slippery slope arguments are fallacies 99% of the time.

99%? Really? Well, that sounds like a lot and totally not made up. Carry on then.

You don't know why it's a fallacy do you? You only need to read 5 lines of text, but I'll tell you: Slippery slopes that do not recognize middle ground arguments are fallacies. Most don't. Yours doesn't. You claim that we go instantly from just *thinking* about money to automatically changing gameplay for money. There's is no middle ground consideration. Ergo: fallacy.

 

[Vault Dweller]

Infinitron:

So, in other words, the fact that almost every one of their games was rejected twice and accepted later (because they kept trying) suggests that Primordia being rejected originally is business as usual and not a sign of global changes.

 

[Infinitron]

Infinitron:

So, in other words, the fact that almost every one of their games was rejected twice and accepted later (because they kept trying) suggests that Primordia being rejected originally is business as usual and not a sign of global changes.

You're fucking incredible, man.

"The entire Internet is full of indies who are butthurt about not being able to get on Steam. But fuck them, what do they know? I, the great Vault Dweller, know the secrets of how Steam really works! Those chumps just need to try harder!"

 

[Jaesun]