Codex Preview RPG Codex Report: Expeditions: Conquistador, Logic Artists and Kickstarter

[Vault Dweller]

That form on Steam web site doesn't exist anymore. There is no way for devs to contact Steam and say: please accept our game. In rare cases when you catch someone from Steam on a conference, they direct you to Greenlight. That's what it means - there is no other way to Steam other than through Greenlight. I even asked some companies who are there if they could talk to whoever handles their products to accept our game, but response is the same - Greenlight.

What?! The form is gone? NOOOO!!! Not the form!

All emails were destroyed too? Now, that must really suck.

 

[Infinitron]

That form on Steam web site doesn't exist anymore. There is no way for devs to contact Steam and say: please accept our game. In rare cases when you catch someone from Steam on a conference, they direct you to Greenlight. That's what it means - there is no other way to Steam other than through Greenlight. I even asked some companies who are there if they could talk to whoever handles their products to accept our game, but response is the same - Greenlight.

What?! The form is gone? NOOOO!!! Not the form!

All emails were destroyed too? Now, that must really suck.

I didn't say that.

 

[Vault Dweller]

And that's exactly why it defeats itself. Don't you get it?

Edit:

Before Greenlight:

A developer submits several games and they are rejected twice until eventually approved.

After Greenlight:

Same developer submits a game, it's rejected once. What changed?

Wrong. After Greenlight - the game is never rejected. It just hangs out there until developers pulls it.

Read the interview.

 

[Vault Dweller]

That form on Steam web site doesn't exist anymore. There is no way for devs to contact Steam and say: please accept our game. In rare cases when you catch someone from Steam on a conference, they direct you to Greenlight. That's what it means - there is no other way to Steam other than through Greenlight. I even asked some companies who are there if they could talk to whoever handles their products to accept our game, but response is the same - Greenlight.

What?! The form is gone? NOOOO!!! Not the form!

All emails were destroyed too? Now, that must really suck.

I didn't say that.

Apologies.

 

[Monty]

Please keep in mind that along with our obligations to backers (who we love and adore and who are our true base) we have obligations to investors. Big chunk of our game is made on my own money, but we also have some investors who we need to pay back. I would love to get my money back too, but backers and investors come first. And we as devs need to balance these two things: obligations to backers and obligations to investors.

Fine, I understand all that. But then be straight with the backers who have given you their money.

When you pull the game days before release you don't come up with a vague statement about not being able to say anything and 'noone did anything wrong'. Just state that you're trying to finalise a steam distribution agreement which could ensure the success of the game, and so you can't distribute the game for a few weeks. But you will use the time to polish and improve the game.

I wouldn't have had a problem with that, we didn't back the game hoping it would be a failure.

But in addition to the lack of communication we also got the news that the single-player game we backed was now turning into a multiplayer game. First we were assured that this was just a minor addition, a single member of staff, and it wouldn't affect the singleplayer game at all. Then they admitted that the singleplayer game had suffered due to the time spent on implementing multiplayer.

Maybe if I hadn't backed the game but had hung out with the developers quaffing Mountain Dew I would also be defending the way they have treated their backers. Instead their contradictory statements have changed my overwhelmingly positive impression of their project into an overwhelmingly negative one, and I would be very unlikely to back a project of theirs in the future.

 

[Infinitron]

BTW you're being a real fucking asshole here, VD. You're basically mocking the efforts of developers who haven't been able to get onto Steam. "Just try harder, ya fucking slackers!"

Seriously, just shut up.

 

[Darth Roxor]

An average thread on RPG Codex.

 

[Stelcio]

I have a problem with:

1) Viewing what is the problem

Fixed

 

[Aterdux Entertainment]

That form on Steam web site doesn't exist anymore. There is no way for devs to contact Steam and say: please accept our game. In rare cases when you catch someone from Steam on a conference, they direct you to Greenlight. That's what it means - there is no other way to Steam other than through Greenlight. I even asked some companies who are there if they could talk to whoever handles their products to accept our game, but response is the same - Greenlight.

What?! The form is gone? NOOOO!!! Not the form!

All emails were destroyed too? Now, that must really suck.

There were no emails as way to contact Steam. But you can talk to them at conferences.

 

[Vault Dweller]

The issue is that a ready game (according to the developers) was delayed by 2 months so far because the developer is seeking more distribution. It's been said by many different people and in many different ways, yet you still struggle to process this simple fact. Why?

sigh

I have a problem with:

1) Viewing a two month delay as big problem

2) Speculating that the addition of multiplayer was caused by contacting more distributors

I think I made this point clear plenty of fucking times.

But really, I think it's clear we're not going anywhere when you can still claim this:

Some things should be obvious because that's how the world works.

in the face of this:

Now, Since Sep 2012:
That form on Steam web site doesn't exist anymore. There is no way for devs to contact Steam and say: please accept our game. In rare cases when you catch someone from Steam on a conference, they direct you to Greenlight. That's what it means - there is no other way to Steam other than through Greenlight. I even asked some companies who are there if they could talk to whoever handles their products to accept our game, but response is the same - Greenlight.

I hope it's clear. I have been following Steam submission process for the last three years and I am very happy Greenlight exists. Before it was way too subjective. Now it's hard, but it offers more transparency. In the end, I believe our game would have been accepted through old Steam submission process if we submitted it at a point when our beta is nice and playable, as it is now, for example.

Your argument: It should be obvious. Why? Just because!

Infinitron and Aterdux: This is the way it works. Why? Because of what Steam says and what actual developers experience when interacting with Steam.

If you cannot accept that the latter is clearly and undeniably a stronger argument, then there is zero fucking point in progressing.

As long as the process is not fully automated and there are decision makers who have the power to approve the game if they like it, THERE WILL BE ALTERNATIVE WAYS OF GETTING ON STEAM. It's a fact and only an extremely naive person would argue against it pointing out at the rules.

Says you. In the face of overwhelming evidence to the contrary. This is absurd VD. I haven't been met with this amount of straight up denial of sources since the last time I argued with someone believing in astrology.

I don't see the latter as clearly and undeniably stronger arguments. I see hearsay and some faq. Not a single argument proving conclusively that GL is the only way to get on Steam has been provided. You're willing to accept anything that agrees with your position. I don't.

For the record, not a single argument proving that it's not the only way has been provided either. So, all we have a theoretical discussion on what's possible and what isn't. I recognize it, you don't. That's the problem here.

 

[Grunker]

That form on Steam web site doesn't exist anymore. There is no way for devs to contact Steam and say: please accept our game. In rare cases when you catch someone from Steam on a conference, they direct you to Greenlight. That's what it means - there is no other way to Steam other than through Greenlight. I even asked some companies who are there if they could talk to whoever handles their products to accept our game, but response is the same - Greenlight.

What?! The form is gone? NOOOO!!! Not the form!

All emails were destroyed too? Now, that must really suck.

Holy shit. I don't know what's worst; that you argue this way or that I'm actually confident you're not simply trolling.

 

[Grunker]

The issue is that a ready game (according to the developers) was delayed by 2 months so far because the developer is seeking more distribution. It's been said by many different people and in many different ways, yet you still struggle to process this simple fact. Why?

sigh

I have a problem with:

1) Viewing a two month delay as big problem

2) Speculating that the addition of multiplayer was caused by contacting more distributors

I think I made this point clear plenty of fucking times.

But really, I think it's clear we're not going anywhere when you can still claim this:

Some things should be obvious because that's how the world works.

in the face of this:

Now, Since Sep 2012:
That form on Steam web site doesn't exist anymore. There is no way for devs to contact Steam and say: please accept our game. In rare cases when you catch someone from Steam on a conference, they direct you to Greenlight. That's what it means - there is no other way to Steam other than through Greenlight. I even asked some companies who are there if they could talk to whoever handles their products to accept our game, but response is the same - Greenlight.

I hope it's clear. I have been following Steam submission process for the last three years and I am very happy Greenlight exists. Before it was way too subjective. Now it's hard, but it offers more transparency. In the end, I believe our game would have been accepted through old Steam submission process if we submitted it at a point when our beta is nice and playable, as it is now, for example.

Your argument: It should be obvious. Why? Just because!

Infinitron and Aterdux: This is the way it works. Why? Because of what Steam says and what actual developers experience when interacting with Steam.

If you cannot accept that the latter is clearly and undeniably a stronger argument, then there is zero fucking point in progressing.

As long as the process is not fully automated and there are decision makers who have the power to approve the game if they like it, THERE WILL BE ALTERNATIVE WAYS OF GETTING ON STEAM. It's a fact and only an extremely naive person would argue against it pointing out at the rules.

Says you. In the face of overwhelming evidence to the contrary. This is absurd VD. I haven't been met with this amount of straight up denial of sources since the last time I argued with someone believing in astrology.

I don't see the latter as clearly and undeniably stronger arguments. I see hearsay and some faq. Not a single argument proving conclusively that GL is the only way to get on Steam has been provided. You're willing to accept anything that agrees with your position. I don't..

Rich.

 

[Vault Dweller]

BTW you're being a real fucking asshole here, VD. You're basically mocking the efforts of developers who haven't been able to get onto Steam. "Just try harder, ya fucking slackers!"

Seriously, just shut up.

I'm not mocking and as you know (you of all people) that I didn't really care about being on Steam. ALL I'm saying is that there is more than one way. That's all.

 

[Infinitron]

ALL I'm saying is that there is more than one way. That's all.

Yeah, there's more than one way. The other way is to join up with a publisher who already has free access to Steam!

 

[Vault Dweller]

Meaning to bypass the established rule because someone knows a guy. Well, guess what, you can make this connection on your own, if you're persistent enough. That's Sales 101.

 

[Vault Dweller]

Done now. Grunker, Trony, no offense, right?

 

[Infinitron]

Meaning to bypass the established rule because someone knows a guy. Well, guess what, you can make this connection on your own, if you're persistent enough. That's Sales 101.

Yeah sure. If you can easily connect with hundreds of thousands of potential Kickstarter backers and make 10 million dollars on Kickstarter, then connecting with a few Valve employees should be a piece of cake, amirite?

Dude, whatever you're on, I want some of it. You live in a world of endless possibilities.

 

[Grunker]

Done now. Grunker, Trony, no offense, right?

We're arguing on the Codex, man. No matter what I say in heat of the moment, my love for you, darling VD, will never die

I hope the reverse is true.

Doesn't change the fact that I think you're arguing like shit in this thread though, and I agree with Da Tron

The reason I targeted you so specifically is that the two of us have discussed leniency towards small developers before, and I was quite surprised our views didn't align as much as those conversations had made it seem.

Meaning to bypass the established rule because someone knows a guy. Well, guess what, you can make this connection on your own, if you're persistent enough. That's Sales 101.

Yeah sure. If you can easily connect with hundreds of thousands of potential Torment Kickstarter backers and make 10 million dollars on Kickstarter, then connecting with a few Valve employees should be a piece of cake, amirite?

Dude, whatever you're on, I want some of it. You live in a world of endless possibilities.

He's making a turn-based RPG in 2013, so obviously. Good thing he didn't go on Kickstarter and promised a release date

 

[Infinitron]

Yeah, I can't believe nobody has commented on the inherent absurdity of Vault Dweller castigating somebody for missing a release date.

 

[Stelcio]

Yeah, I can't believe nobody has commented on the inherent absurdity of Vault Dweller castigating somebody for missing a release date.

Only no-one did castigate anyone for missing a release date... It was said here several times, dude.

 

[Mortmal]

Say notch want to publish his new space game 0x10c on steam, do you think they will tell him" greenlight, grenlight! theres no other way , go with the other filthy indies" , or will they unfold the red carpet and welcome the upcoming millions ?

 

[Vault Dweller]

Sorry, rules are rules.

 

[Grunker]

Yeah, the comparison between Notch and Logic Artists is totally apt. I wonder why Logic Artists haven't just picked up the phone and called the hotline to the Steam Small Indie Studios Task Force.

 

[Brotherman Bill]

I just noticed that of all the people in the world to be butthurt about a delayed release, it's VD who's the most incensed. One should think he of all people would be able to empathize

Let's hope people have more patience with AoD!

 

[Mortmal]

There was no official release date about AOD, and no kickstarter, i dont like either to see it dragging over years and years, but its different there he owe us nothing we havent given him any money until the preorder (after a free demo), no broken promises, none were made.