Codex Preview RPG Codex Report: Expeditions: Conquistador, Logic Artists and Kickstarter

[Avonaeon]

It is your responsibility to put it at ease.

What I just tried to do. Guess that wasn't the case then.

I'm not accusing the Codex of anything. There were, what I feel, some pretty wild assumptions that weren't even close to home, so I just tried to set the record straight. I don't mind the critizism as long as it's informed.
Was multiplayer a mistake? In hindsight, maybe. We thought it would be a nice addition to the game, but it's pretty obvious now many didn't agree with that.

 

[Avonaeon]

We will.

 

[Vault Dweller]

3) The entire idea of a Kickstarter, although not mentioned explicitly, is to avoid the publisher-middleman.

Correction: The entire idea of KS is getting money directly from consumers instead of publishers. Now publishers serve two roles: they pay for development and they distribute games (which includes digital distribution, established media contacts, marketing, and such). KS helps you bypass the former but not the latter.

Now, of course, adding multiplayer is a serious crime. Not because it's being added late but because it's being added at all, but let's give them a break and hope that one day they will make a nice viking game in the conquistador style. Vikings: Summer vacation in England!

 

[Jaesun]

I want a sci-fi game like this though.

 

[almondblight]

We payed for going to Gamescom (And the booth) out of our own pocket. The Kickstarter campaign was still going on while we went there.
I think it's pretty amazing how many assumptions you guys are making. Who said we didn't work for free, for months, just so we could make this game happen? Who says we didn't work out of a shitty little place before we moved into our current office in December?

I believe the answer to that question is "no one." Reading the discussion helps. Mortmal is arguing that it was obvious that you guys wouldn't be able to complete the game with the $77k raised, pointing out things like how an office would cost $60k a year. My position is that things like offices and conventions are optional, so one shouldn't expect backers to assume that $77k isn't enough based on expenditures that aren't inherent in indie development. Maybe you needed to do that, but as a backer, why should I assume this to be the case?

As of now, development for this game has been going on for just over 10 months. And as for that niche game for a niche phone that we made, yeah, we're raking in millions with that.

Again, reading the conversation helps. The issue isn't "these guys are loaded because they've released another game." It's that "these guys may possibly have another revenue stream since they've already released another game, so it isn't obvious that raising $77k on Kickstarter isn't enough to finish their game, or that they have less money than other indie devs."

The only thing getting a publisher has actually done to the game itself, distribution issues aside, is making it possible to localize the game into German.

Which is fine, but when AC Sleighter complained about publisher involvement, your response was that the game couldn't have been made with the Kickstarter funds alone:

Also, if the underlying cause in this is issues with publishers and distributors getting involved as it appears, it also looks really bad to the Kickstarter crowd. The Kickstarter crowd believes they are "donating" to help fund projects that would otherwise be unable to get published and bypassing publisher involvement.

I think it's obvious that, if they are successful with their Kickstarter project, some of these developers are going to enter into business with publishers for future development, future distribution and future projects. But these Kickstarters should be hands free from publisher involvement. Developers need to be, and should be allowed to make money and improve their business. Getting involved with publishers is often going to be the way for some of them to move forward. However, the "right" thing to do (IMO) is to fulfill the promises of those people who initially funded you first. Fiinish the game as described and intented in your Kickstarter campaign. Release it in the ways available to you to the people that backed it. THEN you can enter into a deal with a publisher for further distribution.

But as it is now, it certainly looks as if your kickstarter backers are getting the shaft, because of a deal with a publisher. Basically you are undercutting your original funders, and that's fucked up.

While Kickstarter was a major part of this game becoming successful, and while we're super greatful to all those who backed us, it was still only a part of it. You can't make a game of this size and complexity with only $77,000. For us to survive as a company, and continue making games, it's naïve to think we could have survived on the Kickstarter money alone. Investors and additional money HAS to be secured for a game like this to get made, unless you manage get much more than what you ask for on KS, and in fact we had to spend almost $70,000 of our own money to develop the prototype before we even launched the Kickstarter. And lets be honest here, if we had asked for something like $200,000, there would have been no game.

If you see any faulty assumptions, feel free to point them out.

 

[Mortmal]

We payed for going to Gamescom (And the booth) out of our own pocket. The Kickstarter campaign was still going on while we went there.
I think it's pretty amazing how many assumptions you guys are making. Who said we didn't work for free, for months, just so we could make this game happen? Who says we didn't work out of a shitty little place before we moved into our current office in December?
As of now, development for this game has been going on for just over 10 months. And as for that niche game for a niche phone that we made, yeah, we're raking in millions with that.

The only thing getting a publisher has actually done to the game itself, distribution issues aside, is making it possible to localize the game into German.

Arguing for the sake of arguing is what the codex is good for,making asumptions and judging games with a few seconds of trailers too . Now to make up for that horrible crime that is adding multiplayer , we demand the tale of your hard begginings,with all the juicy details, hunting rats with pointy sticks in the shitty office , coding on old 386 pc, go on entertain us .

 

[Grunker]

We payed for going to Gamescom (And the booth) out of our own pocket. The Kickstarter campaign was still going on while we went there.
I think it's pretty amazing how many assumptions you guys are making. Who said we didn't work for free, for months, just so we could make this game happen? Who says we didn't work out of a shitty little place before we moved into our current office in December?
As of now, development for this game has been going on for just over 10 months. And as for that niche game for a niche phone that we made, yeah, we're raking in millions with that.

The only thing getting a publisher has actually done to the game itself, distribution issues aside, is making it possible to localize the game into German.

Arguing for the sake of arguing is what the codex is good for

No, a proper critical approach to gaming is what the Codex is good for. Being quick to judge can sometimes be an unfortunate bi-product, but it's certainly not "what the Codex is good for", and it's not really what this is about either.

 

[Mortmal]

We payed for going to Gamescom (And the booth) out of our own pocket. The Kickstarter campaign was still going on while we went there.
I think it's pretty amazing how many assumptions you guys are making. Who said we didn't work for free, for months, just so we could make this game happen? Who says we didn't work out of a shitty little place before we moved into our current office in December?
As of now, development for this game has been going on for just over 10 months. And as for that niche game for a niche phone that we made, yeah, we're raking in millions with that.

The only thing getting a publisher has actually done to the game itself, distribution issues aside, is making it possible to localize the game into German.

Arguing for the sake of arguing is what the codex is good for

No, a proper critical approach to gaming is what the Codex is good for. Being quick to judge can sometimes be an unfortunate bi-product, but it's certainly not "what the Codex is good for", and it's not really what this is about either.

Thats not true, i will take an example, skyrim : first trailers lot of whining and screaming that it was decline and how horrible it was. Its funny jaesun is brofisting you when all he was doing in skyrim threads was to spam that video with the dragon lifting a static giant to the air .

The game is released lot of whining about how decline and horrible it is despite people spending 80 to 260 hours on it . There's still no review on the codex, and it was not even acknowledged as game of the year despite all the votes it got . Being quick to judge, boasting egos and not admiting mistakes is more common than critical approach to gaming , although the site is getting better with more dev interviews .

 

[Grunker]

We payed for going to Gamescom (And the booth) out of our own pocket. The Kickstarter campaign was still going on while we went there.
I think it's pretty amazing how many assumptions you guys are making. Who said we didn't work for free, for months, just so we could make this game happen? Who says we didn't work out of a shitty little place before we moved into our current office in December?
As of now, development for this game has been going on for just over 10 months. And as for that niche game for a niche phone that we made, yeah, we're raking in millions with that.

The only thing getting a publisher has actually done to the game itself, distribution issues aside, is making it possible to localize the game into German.

Arguing for the sake of arguing is what the codex is good for

No, a proper critical approach to gaming is what the Codex is good for. Being quick to judge can sometimes be an unfortunate bi-product, but it's certainly not "what the Codex is good for", and it's not really what this is about either.

Thats not true, i will take an example, skyrim : first trailers lot of whining and screaming that it was decline and how horrible it was. Its funny jaesun is brofisting you when all he was doing in skyrim threads was to spam that video with the dragon lifting a static giant to the air .

The game is released lot of whining about how decline and horrible it is despite people spending 80 to 260 hours on it . There's still no review on the codex, and it was not even acknowledged as game of the year despite all the votes it got . Being quick to judge, boasting egos and not admiting mistakes is more common than critical approach to gaming , although the site is getting better with more dev interviews .

Are you implying that Skyrim is a good game, that the Codex was unfairly critical of it, or that Skyrim should have had more focus from the Codex staff? I disagree with all three, so take your pick.

Also, incidentally, if you're implying all of the above, then what the fuck are you even doing here? What's the point?

EDIT: And fuck you, by the way, for making this sorry thing my 10.000th post.

 

[Grunker]

Oh, and also: There's still no review for it? Are you motherfucking serious? Write a review, you lazy bastard. I can almost guarantee we'll post it if it's half-way coherent. This site is solely driven by voluntary forces. You think we order reviews from staff or something?

We post reviews when people write them. You want a Skyrim review, you can write it your own self.

"There's still no review for it." Pah.

 

[Mortmal]

We payed for going to Gamescom (And the booth) out of our own pocket. The Kickstarter campaign was still going on while we went there.
I think it's pretty amazing how many assumptions you guys are making. Who said we didn't work for free, for months, just so we could make this game happen? Who says we didn't work out of a shitty little place before we moved into our current office in December?
As of now, development for this game has been going on for just over 10 months. And as for that niche game for a niche phone that we made, yeah, we're raking in millions with that.

The only thing getting a publisher has actually done to the game itself, distribution issues aside, is making it possible to localize the game into German.

Arguing for the sake of arguing is what the codex is good for

No, a proper critical approach to gaming is what the Codex is good for. Being quick to judge can sometimes be an unfortunate bi-product, but it's certainly not "what the Codex is good for", and it's not really what this is about either.

Thats not true, i will take an example, skyrim : first trailers lot of whining and screaming that it was decline and how horrible it was. Its funny jaesun is brofisting you when all he was doing in skyrim threads was to spam that video with the dragon lifting a static giant to the air .

The game is released lot of whining about how decline and horrible it is despite people spending 80 to 260 hours on it . There's still no review on the codex, and it was not even acknowledged as game of the year despite all the votes it got . Being quick to judge, boasting egos and not admiting mistakes is more common than critical approach to gaming , although the site is getting better with more dev interviews .

Are you implying that Skyrim is a good game, that the Codex was unfairly critical of it, or that Skyrim should have had more focus from the Codex staff? I disagree with all three, so take your pick.

Also, incidentally, if you're implying all of the above, then what the fuck are you even doing here? What's the point?

EDIT: And fuck you, by the way, for making this sorry thing my 10.000th post.

IS skyrim a good game ? You cant spend so many hours on a game and then say with a straight face that its shit, so yes its rather good . Was the staff unfairly critical to it, yes why denying its rpg of the year title. Theres no critical approach you are making as if it doesnt exist , even arcania got a review. Should it have more focus ? From the staff yes a review, from other codexers it could not have more focus already, looking today at 16H in the forums , some skyrim thread are still on top, "skyrim is worse than oblvion" and skyrim mod thread.

 

[Grunker]

You cant spend so many hours on a game and then say with a straight face that its shit, so yes its rather good

1) This is such a blatant fallacy I'm wondering whether I should just stop taking you seriously.

2) Who is this mystery-person who spend so many hours on Skyrim? What is it that makes you able to determine the complete statistic on an average Codexer and his likes?

From the staff yes a review

Two words: FUCK YOU.

For further info, see:

Oh, and also: There's still no review for it? Are you motherfucking serious? Write a review, you lazy bastard. I can almost guarantee we'll post it if it's half-way coherent. This site is solely driven by voluntary forces. You think we order reviews from staff or something?

We post reviews when people write them. You want a Skyrim review, you can write it your own self.

"There's still no review for it." Pah.

 

[Vault Dweller]

IS skyrim a good game ? You cant spend so many hours on a game and then say with a straight face that its shit, so yes its rather good.

Game? Maybe. An RPG? Doubtfully.

Was the staff unfairly critical to it, yes why denying its rpg of the year title. Theres no critical approach you are making as if it doesnt exist , even arcania got a review. Should it have more focus ? From the staff yes a review, from other codexers it could not have more focus already, looking today at 16H in the forums , some skyrim thread are still on top, "skyrim is worse than oblvion" and skyrim mod thread.

So what? Diablo 3 thread is still running, so such things don't mean anything.

As for the review, I suppose the fault is mine. I promised VoD to review it, but was too busy with the demo release and didn't have time to do it within a reasonable timeframe. So, if you have to blame someone, blame me.

 

[Jaesun]

We would rather you spend your time on AoD, instead of incurring permanent BRIAN damage playing that piece of shit.

 

[Mortmal]

Skyrim is as a rpg as ultima underworld , arena and daggerfall, although id prefer to see daggerfall again with skyrim tech its still entertaining . its a different subgenre but a rpg still same for grimrock. For the review, its not lazyness my english is not good enough to write one. And yes it should not be the most busy guys of us already that should write it, so no one blaming you VD.

Grunker, theres no mistery person, playing so many hours skyrim, theres several here and they acknowledged it. Also steam group... have a look at it , can hardly be more obvious. That doesnt mean i dont enjoy more other genre of rpgs, i'd like something else too, wich is why i am looking forward games like conquistadores

 

[Kirtai]

We would rather you spend your time on AoD, instead of incurring permanent BRIAN damage playing that piece of shit.

I'm sure there are substitute Brians available who wouldn't mind a bit of damage.

 

[Quigs]

Oh, and also: There's still no review for it? Are you motherfucking serious? Write a review, you lazy bastard. I can almost guarantee we'll post it if it's half-way coherent. This site is solely driven by voluntary forces. You think we order reviews from staff or something?

We post reviews when people write them. You want a Skyrim review, you can write it your own self.

"There's still no review for it." Pah.

 

[Darth Roxor]

even arcania got a review

and it sure as hell wasn't penned by the staff

 

[Jaesun]

Again, ANYONE can submit a Skyrim review (Or ANY review, send it via the contact us button). But it must adhere to our high standards of review.

 

[Grunker]

our high standards of review.

Write somewhat coherently and don't hand out free blowjobs to the publisher in every other sentence?

EDIT: Now that I think about it, that's actually pretty high compared to most sites. Proceed.

 

[Saduj]

Given recent events, I realize Logic Artists aren't going to say anything until they are sure but I have to ask.....

Any news on the new release date?

Everything I've read from people who have played the game has been very positive and I'm really looking forward to playing it.

 

[Kosmonaut]

Supposedly, this month.

 

[Kosmonaut]

http://www.logicartists.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=601

On this day of our lord March 8 2013, Casper and Juan implemented timed turns in multiplayer, and Jonas fucking finally managed to win a battle because Daniel is a slow-poke who doesn't think well under pressure.

They are still implementing stuff from the multiplayer. Sigh. I still wonder why didn't they made it an addon or a DLC.

 

[Spectacle]

http://www.logicartists.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=601

On this day of our lord March 8 2013, Casper and Juan implemented timed turns in multiplayer, and Jonas fucking finally managed to win a battle because Daniel is a slow-poke who doesn't think well under pressure.

They are still implementing stuff from the multiplayer. Sigh. I still wonder why didn't they made it an addon or a DLC.

If they're waiting for publishing shit to come in order, might as well do something useful with the time.

 

[Kosmonaut]

Yeah, maybe polishing the single-player game, instead of the MP.