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Codex Preview RPG Codex Report: Expeditions: Conquistador, Logic Artists and Kickstarter

crakkie

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The game obviously took more than $77,000 to make. Why the fuck would they be beholden to the cries of people who have already irrevocably given them money to fund a small part of the game? Would they release a buggy early version without selling features just to appease you couple of thousand? Wouldn't they rather prepare the game to be in a state where it would be able to sell lots of copies that will get them additional money? Nohoho the publishers made them delay because multiplayer!

Codex business fail, jesus. Welcome to kickstarter backing. They owe you absolutely nothing.
 

Overboard

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Codex business fail, jesus. Welcome to kickstarter backing. They owe you absolutely nothing.

Is a creator legally obligated to fulfill the promises of their project?

Yes. Kickstarter's Terms of Use require creators to fulfill all rewards of their project or refund any backer whose reward they do not or cannot fulfill. (This is what creators see before they launch.) We crafted these terms to create a legal requirement for creators to follow through on their projects, and to give backers a recourse if they don't. We hope that backers will consider using this provision only in cases where they feel that a creator has not made a good faith effort to complete the project and fulfill.

Welcome to real life, dumbfuck apologist.
 

Kz3r0

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The game obviously took more than $77,000 to make. Why the fuck would they be beholden to the cries of people who have already irrevocably given them money to fund a small part of the game? Would they release a buggy early version without selling features just to appease you couple of thousand? Wouldn't they rather prepare the game to be in a state where it would be able to sell lots of copies that will get them additional money? Nohoho the publishers made them delay because multiplayer!

Codex business fail, jesus. Welcome to kickstarter backing. They owe you absolutely nothing.
:excellent:
 

Commissar Draco

Codexia Comrade Colonel Commissar
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Insert Title Here Strap Yourselves In Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Divinity: Original Sin 2
Codex business fail, jesus. Welcome to kickstarter backing. They owe you absolutely nothing.

Is a creator legally obligated to fulfill the promises of their project?

Yes. Kickstarter's Terms of Use require creators to fulfill all rewards of their project or refund any backer whose reward they do not or cannot fulfill. (This is what creators see before they launch.) We crafted these terms to create a legal requirement for creators to follow through on their projects, and to give backers a recourse if they don't. We hope that backers will consider using this provision only in cases where they feel that a creator has not made a good faith effort to complete the project and fulfill.

Welcome to real life, dumbfuck apologist.

This.... But Do you think W2 and other Kickstarter vaporware will be completed on Time? Yeah sure Next Thursday. :troll:
 

Tolknaz

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Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2
Bitcomposer, eh? No wonder Logic Bros are miscommunicating left and right like there's no tomorrow. They're learning quickly from the true masters of the art. I bet Bitcomposer would be seen in MUCH better light here and elsewhere, had they simply named their game Commandos: Whatever instead of Jagged Alliance. As a Commandos like game with RPG elements it's quite decent. As a Jagged Alliance game however...
 

janjetina

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This campaign reeks of false advertising. I'm glad I hadn't backed this. While a lawsuit for such a petty amount is not realistic, the backers have the realistic option of raising the public awareness about 'Logic Artists' misleading their backers, making sure that they are rightfully out of work once they are through with this game.
 

Cosmo

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Project: Eternity
The game obviously took more than $77,000 to make. Why the fuck would they be beholden to the cries of people who have already irrevocably given them money to fund a small part of the game? Would they release a buggy early version without selling features just to appease you couple of thousand? Wouldn't they rather prepare the game to be in a state where it would be able to sell lots of copies that will get them additional money? Nohoho the publishers made them delay because multiplayer!

Codex business fail, jesus. Welcome to kickstarter backing. They owe you absolutely nothing.

This.
 
Joined
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I'm so glad I haven't given these scamming assholes money in desperate hope for incline. You faggots that defend them that they don't owe you shit are just dishonest morons. I'm sure that there will be plenty of KS projects that will do what they promised, so why back and defend lying assholes? Plenty of honest people there to praise and back.
 

clemens

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Codex 2014 Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2
From update 20 :

"A week or so ago we let slip on our forums that we’ve signed a deal with bitComposer to bring the game to market. This deal has changed precisely zero things about the game. We didn’t want a publisher to interfere with our product (hence our use of Kickstarter to fund a considerable part of it) and bitComposer didn’t want to interfere with our product, so that all worked out nicely. Just to be absolutely clear, we already had multiplayer done and polished by the time we signed this deal, that was entirely our own decision and bitComposer had nothing to do with it.
bitComposer brings three things to the table: they’ll fund a German localisation if the game sells well enough in English and Spanish, they’ll help us out with marketing, and through them we’ll get access to a greater range of distribution than we could reach on our own, including physical distribution via Amazon as well as in shops. Yeah, apparently some people still buy their games in shops – go figure.
So what’s with the delay? Well as you may have picked up from our embarrassingly uncoordinated attempts to explain it, there is more than one reason for that. First, the delay was because we were talking to bitComposer. Then the delay was because we were waiting to work things out with some major distributors, and though we’re still waiting on that, we expect to be able to release the game this month."

So, we blame these guys because they're trying to sell their game ? Yeah, what a bunch of fucking assholes... :roll: I'm not seeing what is so dishonest or outrageous about it...

As for the delay, we'll see which other kickstarter project is able to deliver on time...
 
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WTF is wrong with you? Why didn't they mention multiplayer while they where kickstarter pitching their game? :roll: Cause they "forgot" to mention their plans and get more money form desperate old school crowd. I.e. they lied. NO mention of multiplayer whatsoever till now. And they even say:

I'll even admit that the multiplayer has in fact detracted a little bit from the singleplayer, in that Casper has had less time to polish the campaign because he had to work on the multiplayer, but now that we have a little extra time on the clock, we'll be able to catch up on that.

So let's not try and give the best of what we were promising, but let's do multiplayer instead and delay the game altogether.
 

Jaedar

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Project: Eternity Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 Pathfinder: Kingmaker
I really don't get all the rage about the delay. I get being upset but calling them dishonest pricks scamming their backers seems a bit excessive. Delays happen. It was handled poorly yes, but I don't see how this makes logic artists devilspawn.

And about multiplayer: Eh, the devs implemented it because they thought it would be fun. Seems like a fairly solid basis for a design decision to me.
 

Infinitron

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Codex Year of the Donut Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
Like I said before, the delay was okay, even getting a publisher was okay, but they should have concealed the multiplayer until a few weeks after release.

Also they should have posted a heart-to-heart video update about this, not explained it via text.
 

Grunker

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bitComposer isn't publishing the game. Re-read the update.

They sure handled it like shit, but all this conspiracy-talk is some serious tin-foil hat shit.
 

Monty

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Yeah, nothing suspicious at all.

- Claim (in the interview with Grunker just before release) that the game is coming out on time.
- Days before release announce a delay because we're 'talking to publishers'.
- Suddenly 'decide' to implement multiplayer
- Update on how the multiplayer implementation is coming along well. Claim that the kickstarter funds 'weren't that important anyway as the game cost more than 70k')
- Update today on publisher deal. Claim that 'we already had multiplayer done and polished by the time we signed this deal'.

So those who kickstarted a single player game free from the usual publisher influence had to wait while it morphed into a multiplayer project with an exclusive publisher deal.

Perhaps the publisher demanded multiplayer on launch so they rushed to implement it. Even if this was entirely their own decision, to change the game days before the release date, it still meant they've spent this extra time implementing multiplayer instead of improving/polishing the SP campaign which was promised to contributors.

The least they should have done is:
- Be more honest about the delays and the reasons behind them.
- Release the single player game to kickstarter contributors on the agreed date. If necessary, patch it later to fix any remaining bugs, like every other game does. Keeping promises made on kickstarter should be a priority.
- Once the backers had their copy they were free to do whatever deals they wanted with publishers. If the publishers are only interested in multiplayer games with romanceable horses then implement that and watch the profits roll in.

If you take kickstarter money you should do everything you can to meet those promises first, else you just ruin the concept for other small developers. Don't use the kickstarter cash to fund a game then keep backers in the dark over delays and scope changes while dismissing their contributions as 'not that much anyway'.
 

Zeriel

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7m8evxwc.jpg



(Edited for extra YOLO.)
 

janjetina

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Delays are common in the game industry. The alleged cause for the delay is problematic though. The game was presented to the backers as a single player game, and as an independent project. However, they are implementing multiplayer and they have made a deal with the devil publisher, both of which are the breach of their original presentation (and the spirit of the Kickstarter when it comes to publisher involvement), the one that they got their finances for. Additionally, those two things are cited as the cause for delay. That is dishonest behaviour and the backers have a good reason to be angry. This behaviour needs to be rooted out of the game industry.

edit: Clandestine pulling out from Steam Greenlight surely was a class act.
 

Infinitron

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http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/2128128298/expeditions-conquistador/posts/445501#comments

Thank you for your questions (if not the tone with which they were posed, Kosmonaut).

First of all, please be aware tha bitComposer has not given us any funding. That was not part of the deal, and in fact that was probably the reason why we were able to maintain full control (though not ever having made a deal with a publisher involving funding before, we can't really speak to how bitComposer usually does that, if at all). Bottom line: we're getting no money from bitComposer, they're just helping us with distribution and marketing.

Q: What was that "distribution issue" that you had and that delayed the game?

A: We're talking to certain major distributors that shall have to go unnamed, and the process of getting approved by them is remarkably long-winded. This was something we did not predict.

Q: Why did you --surreptitiously and without telling us-- removed the game from Steam Greenlight?

A: Because we'd been on there for months and we were going nowhere. There is no grand conspiracy, Greenlight doesn't work very well, at least not for a game like ours, and we saw no reason to stick around.

Q: Why did you say in the RpgCodex interview that the game was finished, yet in your forums you claimed (after the delay) that the game wasn't ready to be released?

A: It was buggier than we thought. Once we sent out the beta, this became apparent. The delay, though it happened for other reasons, has given us time to remedy that.

Q: Why did the backers copies were delayed by the bitComposer deal?

A: Some important distributors will refuse to distribute the game if it has already been released to members of the public elsewhere. We have to delay everything or a lot of doors will close to us.

Q: Why do you lie? R00fles!!!

A: Why do you troll?

Q: When the heck are you releasing this game? Or there is going to be another "distribution issue"?

A: Helpful quote from the update: "the delay was because we were waiting to work things out with some major distributors, and though we’re still waiting on that, we expect to be able to release the game this month."

Q: Please try to be more transparent insofar as allowed by your agreements with distributors.

A: We're all about transparency, but in order to get our game out to as many people as possible, we have to deal with existing distribution platforms and other large entities, and they prefer to keep things quiet until deals have been worked out. We've been asked not to spill the details on agreements that are still being negotiated, and we have to respect that. We are sorry about it though, and we find it highly frustrating as well, but this seems to simply be the way things work.

Q: If I were you, I wouldn't talk about nuked databases and related delays. Just shows that you had no backup, which is amateur.

A: We had backups (or rather our web host maintains backups) but we were going to replace the website anyway. And we still are. We didn't expect to leave it down for quite this long, though.

We agree that we haven't handled this very well, and we apologise. We underestimated the magnitude of the machinery that drives the distribution of games, and we are unused to working with larger companies that naturally move a bit slower than a 7-person game development studio. You live and learn, but we're sorry to have let you guys down.
 

commie

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What irked me and made me regret pledging the few pesos I gave them, was when they downplayed the Kickstarter money and people, cynically saying that "well, we couldn't have made the game with that money". And when you go to the forums and the comments section on the KS, these brainless morons parrot the same shit about how the game is going to be awesome because the delay.

Is not about the fucking game retarts!, is LogicArts acting like assholes and outright lying left and right. The worst apologist was this fucker that spams both the LA forums and the KS updates. A Darklord moron with an avatar of those dogs that look like Sandra Oh.

Yeah that Dog fucker is on many of the projects we support. I think it's Grunker. Note the shill defense of the undefensible is exactly the same.
 

Zeriel

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To be serious for a second, I honestly don't see the big deal. They had some minor issues with distribution, and delayed the game a few weeks. And didn't people who backed get the beta anyway? Not seeing any major problems here, though it does illustrate how emotional people get when they let down their guard and get personally invested.
 

commie

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bitComposer isn't publishing the game. Re-read the update.

They sure handled it like shit, but all this conspiracy-talk is some serious tin-foil hat shit.

Logic Turdists wrote:

A week or so ago we let slip on our forums that we’ve signed a deal with bitComposer to bring the game to market.

Maybe you should re-read the update, Darklord.

Oh and don't try the old "but, but they says they already had multiplayer and this deal is NEW" as we know their story changes from one minute to another. If they had no pressure on them from TurdComposer then why leave Steam Greenlight for example?
 

Infinitron

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Codex Year of the Donut Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
To be serious for a second, I honestly don't see the big deal. They had some minor issues with distribution, and delayed the game a few weeks. And didn't people who backed get the beta anyway? Not seeing any major problems here, though it does illustrate how emotional people get when they let down their guard and get personally invested.

I think lowest-tier backers didn't get the beta.

bitComposer isn't publishing the game. Re-read the update.

They sure handled it like shit, but all this conspiracy-talk is some serious tin-foil hat shit.

Logic Turdists wrote:

A week or so ago we let slip on our forums that we’ve signed a deal with bitComposer to bring the game to market.

Maybe you should re-read the update, Darklord.
It's called a "distribution deal". For example, EA has traditionally distributed Valve games outside of Steam without actually publishing their games, which are self-funded.
 

Grunker

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bitComposer isn't publishing the game. Re-read the update.

They sure handled it like shit, but all this conspiracy-talk is some serious tin-foil hat shit.

Logic Turdists wrote:

A week or so ago we let slip on our forums that we’ve signed a deal with bitComposer to bring the game to market.

Maybe you should re-read the update, Darklord.

"signed a deal" doesn't equal "they're publishing it", commie. Might as well mean they invested in the game, or indeed, what the update says: That they agree to publish the game in Germany if the game sells in English and Spanish. Remember that Conquistador has always had an investor. Now they have two.
 

Haba

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Codex 2012 MCA Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2
Not seeing any major problems here, though it does illustrate how emotional people get when they let down their guard and get personally invested.

This is the reason why I always prefer to invest my own money rather than deal with idiots investors. There should be the option of performing some kind of a preliminary screening before accepting backing by from an user on Kickstarter.
 

commie

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Note also that update 8 is called: "Back in Action"

Coincidence? I think not....



To be serious for a second, I honestly don't see the big deal. They had some minor issues with distribution, and delayed the game a few weeks. And didn't people who backed get the beta anyway? Not seeing any major problems here, though it does illustrate how emotional people get when they let down their guard and get personally invested.

I think lowest-tier backers didn't get the beta.

bitComposer isn't publishing the game. Re-read the update.

They sure handled it like shit, but all this conspiracy-talk is some serious tin-foil hat shit.

Logic Turdists wrote:

A week or so ago we let slip on our forums that we’ve signed a deal with bitComposer to bring the game to market.

Maybe you should re-read the update, Darklord.
It's called a "distribution deal". For example, EA has traditionally distributed Valve games outside of Steam without actually publishing their games, which are self-funded.

Er, I think you'll find that 'distributor' and 'publisher' means the same thing in this case, or you think happy elves will make the boxed copies and bitComposer will just be the postal service?
 

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