Codex Preview RPG Codex Report: Expeditions: Conquistador, Logic Artists and Kickstarter

[tuluse]

I've never even looked at the release date when pledging to a kickstarter. As long as the game is good, and it doesn't have a Cleveian long development time, I don't care if they take a bit longer than they said they would.

But when the release date is pushed because "distribution issues" and then an unrequested addition is announced (Multiplayer), things start to get weird. Not to mention the Greenlight withdrawn.

Yea yeah, I know:

I see your point, I just don't think it's a big deal yet. Now if we hear about something getting cut, or gameplay being streamlined or "re-invented for the 21st century", I'll be right behind you in the holy crusade.

 

[Avonaeon]

In any case I am reading my HDD for the Beta on Thursday . But what is this "beta"? How close is it to the final release in terms of content?

It's pretty final. There might be some bugs in there, but we're gonna spend the time polishing those off before release.

Wasn't really my intention to sound apologetic, rather trying to explain why things are the way they are.

 

[Metro]

You're a model of consistent arguments.

You mean because I criticized the development time for the Banner Saga being twice as long because they're going to make a separate F2P game first? Yeah man, I can totally see how that's the same as delaying a game for a couple of weeks and adding a simple multiplayer mode.

It basically is, I'm glad you finally came to your senses.

 

[Papa Môlé]

Expeditions: Conquistador will be released this Thursday.

i see what they did there

Releasing on a Thursday, giving Grunker doritos & mountain dew, calling us faggots and staying on the schedule their kickstarter promised... is there ANYTHING danish devs cannot do?

Seems like pandering, the kind of thing Codex would normally get mad about when it was done towards anyone else but them.

That said, the game seems pretty cool.

 

[Charles-cgr]

I've never even looked at the release date when pledging to a kickstarter. As long as the game is good, and it doesn't have a Cleveian long development time, I don't care if they take a bit longer than they said they would.

But when the release date is pushed because "distribution issues" and then an unrequested addition is announced (Multiplayer), things start to get weird. Not to mention the Greenlight withdrawn.

Yea yeah, I know:

What if distribution issues came up and they asked themselves what they can do to make use of the extra time forced upon them? As opposed to eating all the doritos while watching TV... That would seem reasonable.

 

[Cowboy Moment]

Figures it would be the smug african-american holding the sign. Well played, Logic Artists.

Edit: Stupid VoD, this particular nigger is neither african nor american, but Danish. You need to check yourself out for racism, my brother.

 

[mikaelis]

Also, in before

how exactly did you calculate those 98% of time and resources spent on SP game. Is it really 98%? Or maybe 97% or 99%

Give us some math!!!

 

[almondblight]

You're a model of consistent arguments.

You mean because I criticized the development time for the Banner Saga being twice as long because they're going to make a separate F2P game first? Yeah man, I can totally see how that's the same as delaying a game for a couple of weeks and adding a simple multiplayer mode.

It basically is, I'm glad you finally came to your senses.

Hey, tell you what. If the delay for Conquistador is as long as the delay for the Banner Saga has been up until now - not even how long the single-player game will have been delayed for total (probably another six to eight months) just the delay so far - I'll eat crow.

I'll let other people judge if they think Logic Artists tacking on a multiplayer mode is the same as making a separate F2P game with the funds.

 

[Metro]

The flaw in your argument is thinking the delay in the Banner Saga is due in any significant part to the multiplayer. You keep babbling like it's a totally different game with different assets, UI, menu, management, etc.

 

[mbpopolano24]

In any case I am reading my HDD for the Beta on Thursday . But what is this "beta"? How close is it to the final release in terms of content?

It's pretty final. There might be some bugs in there, but we're gonna spend the time polishing those off before release.

Wasn't really my intention to sound apologetic, rather trying to explain why things are the way they are.

This statement is why you should be apologetic. I don't give a damn about the delay or the multiplayer shit. It's the idea that people who call themselves 'professionals' can say that a game they were SUPPOSED to release was PRETTY final. How the hell do you know see the flaw in the logic here? You have LOGIC in the name of your team.

 

[almondblight]

The flaw in your argument is thinking the delay in the Banner Saga is due in any significant part to the multiplayer. You keep babbling like it's a totally different game with different assets, UI, menu, management, etc.

Did we spend too long on this system? Maybe. It’s still hard for me to know for sure. Making a single player game is vastly more simple than making a multiplayer game, and these challenges cost us more time than we would have liked.

Of course, in the real world, the guy would tell Marshall McLuhan that he was wrong about his own work.

 

[May God Gently Caress You]

While Kickstarter was a major part of this game becoming successful, and while we're super greatful to all those who backed us, it was still only a part of it. You can't make a game of this size and complexity with only $77,000. For us to survive as a company, and continue making games, it's naïve to think we could have survived on the Kickstarter money alone. Investors and additional money HAS to be secured for a game like this to get made, unless you manage get much more than what you ask for on KS, and in fact we had to spend almost $70,000 of our own money to develop the prototype before we even launched the Kickstarter. And lets be honest here, if we had asked for something like $200,000, there would have been no game.

Then, you can laugh at my naivety. Some people may regard crowd-funding just as a pre-ordering or they are O.K. as long as they can see another game like this but, for me, its importance is getting rid of middlemen in game development. I think you should have been clear about that you had been under contract with a publisher before asking outside supports. For, supporting you has a different meaning compared with supporting InExile or some other companies/individuals who are self-funded. I don't mind the delay and added MP but this makes the story different for me.

 

[Mortmal]

The 77k$ may be just the initial amount needed to obtain a loan , its indeed naivety to believe it will be enough . Just do some basic maths, you will never pay a full team for months let alone years with that .Denmark as far as i remember is no third world country , no that wont work. At best its showing GOG, desura and co that theres a real interest into the game.

 

[Zeriel]

The 77k$ may be just the initial amount needed to obtain a loan , its indeed naivety to believe it will be enough . Just do some basic maths, you will never pay a full team for months let alone years with that .Denmark as far as i remember is no third world country , no that wont work. At best its showing GOG, desura and co that theres a real interest into the game.

Yeah, there's no way any of the sizeable Kickstart projects are entirely Kickstarter-funded, even the ones that made out big. That said, if a Kickstarter project ends up backed in traditional means, it does sort of make the whole Kickstarter ideal meaningless, since at that point it is simply a piggybank for corporations to raise additional money at no cost to them. It's worth mentioning that this is sort of the way business types see Kickstarter (see The Economist's articles on it), as just a form of angel investor/crowdfunding where the investor actually gets no return on investment (which is an amazing deal for the person getting the money, obviously).

 

[Trash]

Do hope they'll have some legal advice closely scan that whole agreement. Plenty of small time devs have been fucked by publisher contracts by swooning at the great offer and not reading the fine print. Do make sure the IP stays yours, the code stays yours and you don't get saddled with an agreement to develop multiple titles for them based on different terms. And those are just a few things to keep in mind.

PS: And the codex racist shits once more show how fucking tarded they are. Hint: the studio is Danish and has Danish employees. Goddamn mouthbreathers.

 

[Monty]

The 77k$ may be just the initial amount needed to obtain a loan , its indeed naivety to believe it will be enough . Just do some basic maths, you will never pay a full team for months let alone years with that.

Of course not, but the developers will receive the future revenue from their sales and end up with the IP at the end of it. So whether they fill the gap with a loan, investment or by contributing development work for free in the hope of future returns, the kickstarter funds reduce the other funding required. Before kickstarter they had to fund 100% of the work this way.

And unlike any other investors all the kickstarter contributors are asking for is that the game is made to the promised specifications and timeframe. Which is why I think it is a priority to meet these promises.

 

[Charles-cgr]

The 77k$ may be just the initial amount needed to obtain a loan , its indeed naivety to believe it will be enough . Just do some basic maths, you will never pay a full team for months let alone years with that .Denmark as far as i remember is no third world country , no that wont work. At best its showing GOG, desura and co that theres a real interest into the game.

I don't agree. If the game is shown at an advanced state and the team is working on their spare time (no salaries) or on past earnings it is completely plausible. Other kickstarters disclosed that the KS goal was a stepstone to pitching to publishers (Star Citizen). Does this mean that if they had failed to close a publishing deal the game would have never been finished? Quite a risk to take at the expense of the backers. Actually, it is at the expense of the whole crowdfunding scheme because if this happens a few times backers will lose faith and future projects won't be funded.

But in this case I thought the publisher didn't give money, just quick access to Steam?

 

[Tolknaz]

I wonder who this mystery publisher is. Where's our resident game dev stalker PI in our hour of need?

 

[Mortmal]

The 77k$ may be just the initial amount needed to obtain a loan , its indeed naivety to believe it will be enough . Just do some basic maths, you will never pay a full team for months let alone years with that .Denmark as far as i remember is no third world country , no that wont work. At best its showing GOG, desura and co that theres a real interest into the game.

I don't agree. If the game is shown at an advanced state and the team is working on their spare time (no salaries) or on past earnings it is completely plausible. Other kickstarters disclosed that the KS goal was a stepstone to pitching to publishers (Star Citizen). Does this mean that if they had failed to close a publishing deal the game would have never been finished? Quite a risk to take at the expense of the backers. Actually, it is at the expense of the whole crowdfunding scheme because if this happens a few times backers will lose faith and future projects won't be funded.

But in this case I thought the publisher didn't give money, just quick access to Steam?

Past earning and friends working fro free thats possible but borderline faery tales, impossible for most people. Add the nice studio to rent or buy as workplace, the 77k are probably unsignificant. How much does that work place cost ? I read that 1M2 in denmark is worth around 2000 euros, lets say 30m2 thats already 60K of the kickstarter money.
Kickstarter is just giving a bit of advertisement and possibility to be published.It seems publishers have absolutely no clue about what a good game is, but money talk to them, just have to see the sea of dumbed down shit and shovelware on tablets and mobile phone. Its a stepstone indeed I dont think it will pay everything for kickstarter blockbusters like project eternity either.

 

[Charles-cgr]

Mortmal I agree to some extent, but there are enough kickstarters out there asking for 10K-50K to suggest that there are teams that don't pay themselves or rent office space. Asking for a low budget suggests you are one of those guys. As for the blockbusters, we'll see but if you're right and highly anticipated projects are cancelled because no extra investors were found we'll see kickstarters having a much harder time reaching their goals. People that take that risk without disclosing it from the start endanger the whole crowdfunding scheme.

 

[Mortmal]

Mortmal I agree to some extent, but there are enough kickstarters out there asking for 10K-50K to suggest that there are teams that don't pay themselves or rent office space. Asking for a low budget suggests you are one of those guys. As for the blockbusters, we'll see but if you're right and highly anticipated projects are cancelled because no extra investors were found we'll see kickstarters having a much harder time reaching their goals. People that take that risk without disclosing it from the start endanger the whole crowdfunding scheme.

Thats what i fear, we will have bad surprises , they will bear proudly the "funded by kickstarter" tag on their site but all of this far from being funded. Remember that kickstarter about a sci game for tablets, they blew up all their buget just on marketing,on PAX thing if i remmber well, i am sure they are not the only creative guys with zero business sense . Those guys asking for 10K 50K ? i dont know how they will manage anything with so little.

 

[Kz3r0]

Thats what i fear, we will have bad surprises , they will bear proudly the "funded by kickstarter" tag on their site but all of this far from being funded. Remember that kickstarter about a sci game for tablets, they blew up all their buget just on marketing,on PAX thing if i remmber well, i am sure they are not the only creative guys with zero business sense . Those guys asking for 10K 50K ? i dont know how they will manage anything with so little.

These guys wasted 170K$ in playing gaming guru:
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects...hat-teaches-you-to-make-games-he?ref=category

This guy has long since run out of the 5K$ he raised, he is still trying to deliver tho:
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/seltaire/americana-dawn/posts

This studio offer two other games for free as compensation for the delay of their project that raised more than 70K$:
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/761471459/auditorium-2-duet/posts

This other studio tried to continue to work on the project even after finish the 20K$ they raised, causing their writer to abandon the project, at least is what they say:
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/tedjazzastudios/ortus-the-rpg-of-your-dreams/posts

Probably I could dig up more.

 

[skallagrim]

Yay, the new beta is out.

 

[Kosmonaut]

 

[jagged-jimmy]

Bottom line: communication was poor. You can't announce a release date, make me greenlight your game on steam... and then suddenly dissappear from greenlight, decide to add multiplayer at the last moment and push back the release date and announce/imply mysterious potentially life sucking publisher.

Sequence of events so far: