Codex Review RPG Codex Review: Disco Elysium

[Lithium Flower]

I disagree with the reviewer almost entirely but I don't have time for quote wars (at least not at the moment)

Right, easier to just drop the wall of text that you've posted at least 2 other times elsewhere and peace the fuck out before people inevitably call you a turd for doing so

That's massively ironic and you're too retarded to realize it :D.

So far all I've seen from you and other DE fanboys (in response to my opinion with sensible arguments) were butthurt ratings and personal attacks which suggests that even fanboys see the problems I've written but choose to ignore it like some kids trying to defy the reality.

Also, my opinion is self explanatory and quite elaborated so quote wars (which will only be read by me and the reviewer or not even that) aren't necessary.

Wait, so *now* you have time for quote wars?

Shit dude, I forgot to mention, I didn't have time for quote wars. Fuck!

Anyway, here's is Harry/Kim erotica I posted in the other thread about the game for no reason

All characters are consenting adults above the age of 18.

Still reeling from week-old miasma, Harry stumbled into the greenhouse, hoping that the aroma of the flora within would help him get over the cadaverous smell. Instead the strong floral smell mixed with the sickly-sweet stench of the rotting corpse outside, causing the detective to throw up. Again. This time Harry heaved so forcefully that he went weak in the knees and collapsed on all fours, dirtying his already-soiled tie and blazer with his own vomit.

Kim entered behind him and closed the greenhouse door.

"Detective," the lieutenant said in the professional and quietly disappointing tone he has maintained the whole morning, "you need to get your shit together."

"How I get anything together, let alone my shit?" Harry mumbled, not even taking the effort to try and get off the ground, as a beautiful woman's countenance appeared in his mind for a split second and with it a vague sense of dread.

"Well... I know of one way I can help, if you feel like you can't do it on your own," Kim's gentle voice was tinged with something new and strange then. Something like...anticipation? Harry thought.

"Yeah. Whatever. Go ahead," Harry pressed his right cheek into the soft soil and muttered, "what'cha got there, smelling salts? Speed? Its speed, isn't it, or some other upper? Give it here, Dolores Dei knows I've done a lot it in back in the day, or, uh, last week...or did I? I can't seem to fucking remember..."

"No, detective. What I've got here is..." Kim answered in a low voice as he unzipped his fly, "a Volumetric Shit Compressor."

Harry shifted, suddenly alarmed, but the lieutenant's deft hands were already pulling down his soft bell-bottom trousers in yellow wool flannel. An exciting new note joined in the orchestra of scents, taking its seat - nay, its throne - betwixt the floral orchestra and the miasmic pit: the honey of Harry's unwashed anus.

"Lieutenant Kim," the detective said mechanically, as if reciting a disclaimer, "I enthusiastically consent to this and any further sexual interactions and also this isn't obscene at all. Please, proceed."

With an ecstatic grunt Kim brushed his hardening fuckstick against the older man's shit jungle. A successful Inland Empire check informed Harry that the lieutenant's cockthing was a kind of cocksplorer, braving the mysterious depths of his chocolate thicket, like an eager traveler venturing forth into an exciting new isola.

"L-lieutenant!" the alcoholic roared, "y-you are plundering the depths of my jungle!!!"

"What...did...you...say?" Kim managed to utter between animalistic grunts.

"N-nothing..." Harry weakly answered, trembling with pleasure as the man straddling him pushed past his fourteenth sphincter, the ploughstaff's head gently brushing against his atrium, "I can feel my shit...getting volumetrically compressed..."

Fuck-drunk, the detective clenched his teeth and actuated his prostate muscles, milking the base of Kim's anal invader, the tip which has reached as far as his esophagus. Harry opened his mouth and thrust a few vomit-and-viscera covered fingers inside, pushing them into Kim's urethra for maximum pleasure. The bulbous, purple head of the lieutenant's mancannon turned this fuck-serenade into a duet as it playfully took Harry's uvula inside it.

The two men were intertwined more deeply than Siamese twins. Or more deeply than ultraliberalism and psychopathy. Or more deeply than communism and mass-murder. Or more deeply than moralism and fascism. (This is nuanced political commentary, by the way.)

A nearly uncomfortable - yet oh so exciting - awareness of his own body overcame Harry, like how one sometimes realizes they can and ought to breathe and blink manually. Kim's pleasure train has laid tracks from my ass and all the way through to my throat, he realized. The revelation was enough to make him gag - not because he was unhappy with this state of affairs (in fact, he was positively ecstatic), but out of a simple biological reflex.

This body-wide spasm, like that of a dying animal, was enough to push Kim over the brink. Screaming wordlessly, he emptied the contents of his impressively-sized gonads into the man he had entered. Having reached his own climax, Harry wanted to shout with joy, but he couldn't as a geyser of delicious cummies suddenly erupted from his throat. There were cummies in his bloodstream; cummies in his pride.

---

Later, after the two men cleaned up and redressed, the cummy-drunk alcoholic met Lieutenant Kitsuragi's tired gaze. His cheeks were even more flushed than usual, partly from the naughtiness that just overcame him, and partly from his recent cummy overdose.

"Lieutenant," he asked tentatively, more shy than anything, "does this mean that we are f*****s?"

"Detective," Kim parried in a professional tone detached from the visceral fuckfest that had just transpired, "please, don't suggest such... lewd things. I merely did what was required to get your shit together. Also, you should not use words that cause measurable harm to vulnerable minority groups, such as homophobic slurs."

"Fair enough," Harry answered stoically even as his heart quivered. What was this thing he felt? Disappointment? Longing? No...

Both.

"Let's go get that body down and solve this goddamn case, partner."

 

[Goral]

Wait, so *now* you have time for quote wars?

You don't know what quote wars mean, go back to your kitchen and let the men talk.

 

[MRY]

The main problem of the game is that it's for one play-through only.

I'm not actually sure that's what you argue in the rest of the post (which I thought was pretty convincing as criticisms go), but if that's the "main problem," it seems a trivial one. Very few games are worth even a single play through. The number of CRPGs I've actually been able to tolerate start to finish is probably single digit. I'm not sure there are any I've actually made it through twice. (I've done significant but incomplete subsequent playthroughs of Wasteland 1, PS:T, Darksun: Shattered Lands, and AOD, but that's probably about it.)

I think the criticism you're making is slightly different, which is that even on a single playthrough, the "trick" of the design becomes apparent (i.e., the freedom of choice is revealed as the illusion of choice), and once that happens, the magic is gone from the game. That didn't happen to me, probably because I am one of those who "appreciates Kurvitz's 'sophisticated' humour and writing" -- which is to say, assuming you're right about it being an illusion of choice, the magician's patter and distraction work very well for me, and thus the show as a whole is magical.

I can see why the writing wouldn't be for everyone, but to my taste, it is one of a very, very few RPGs that has (1) a voice and (2) the capacity to surprise and/or delight. In fact, I would probably put only AOD, PS:T, and V:TM:B in that category. (I don't think MOTB really has a "voice," but I still rate it comparable to those three.)

 

[Trashos]

Thought I came to the wrong place, an RPG review mentioning existentialism, magical realism, and postmodernism...

And God. You forgot God:

It’s not very clear how to proceed from this point forward, but god knows, the medium needed this wake-up call.

What kind of communist propaganda is this.

 

[Trashos]

if that's the "main problem," it seems a trivial one.

For a lot of us, it is not trivial at all. There are RPGs that are made to be highly replayable, and, like Goral, those are the games I am generally after. They are usually games with a combat character where builds matter, and experimenting with various builds is fun. As a matter of fact, the 1st playthrough is usually the most uninteresting to me, because I don't know what is going on and I can't plan ahead.

The one exception is PST where combat was uninteresting but the writing was superb. I must have done 4 playthroughs of PST (which are very few for a favorite), if memory serves. It is one of my favorites, but as an exception.

This is just to let you know that people RPGamers like us exist. Replayability is an issue. Since DE was never going to have serious combat, it was never going to have replayability either, unless the skill checks or choices opened up different story routes AOD-style. And, as far as I understand, they didn't.

 

[MRY]

I should certainly have said "trivial to me" or perhaps "not a fatal one." Certainly it's not unreasonable for others to have different priorities.

 

[Kyl Von Kull]

if that's the "main problem," it seems a trivial one.

For a lot of us, it is not trivial at all. There are RPGs that are made to be highly replayable, and, like Goral, those are the games I am generally after. They are usually games with a combat character where builds matter, and experimenting with various builds is fun. As a matter of fact, the 1st playthrough is usually the most uninteresting to me, because I don't know what is going on and I can't plan ahead.

The one exception is PST where combat was uninteresting but the writing was superb. I must have done 4 playthroughs of PST (which are very few for a favorite), if memory serves. It is one of my favorites, but as an exception.

This is just to let you know that people RPGamers like us exist. Replayability is an issue. Since DE was never going to have serious combat, it was never going to have replayability either, unless the skill checks or choices opened up different story routes AOD-style. And, as far as I understand, they didn't.

It’s fairly replayable, although obviously it’s not in AoD territory. I’ve done three full runs: 4-5-1-2, 1-1-5-5, and 3-3-3-3. Sure, every playthrough ends in the same place, but you can get there in different ways. Disco is designed like a pair of footballs: it branches then it comes back together, then it branches again then it comes back together.

So much of the text you see in any given run is made up of passive skillchecks that a very different build results in a very different experience (also there are plenty of dialogue options that you’ll only see if you pass a passive check). It even compounds because some passive checks are contingent upon other checks (e.g. you need to notice something with Perception before your Encyclopedia can tell you what it is).

At the very least, it’s worth playing twice. My 4-5-1-2 superstar communist run was quite distinct from my 1-1-5-5 cop of the neoliberal apocalypse run. Admittedly, you’re mostly seeing the same story beats from a new perspective, but that’s not unlike fighting through the same combat encounters with a new build. Or experiencing PS:T as a strong fighter and then again as a wise mage.

 

[commie]

Goral actually points out the flaws and gets pilloried for it, while the acolytes of the church of ZA/UM remind me uncannily of the libtards that support Undertale though even more insufferable due to the pseudo-sophisto writing which makes them think it's high art.





PS: On another note it's good that Commie devs chose the right kind of game to tap into the CYOA, hipster walking sim, everybody wins, style which generates the right kind of media and 'progressive' attention. If they actually made a game with hard and deep mechanics about trying to reform the Soviet State, it would not have been all that successful. So...it's nice that they get to eat. Let them have a brofist too:

 

[Haba]

By the way -- one feature of the game that IMO was under-utilized and frankly somewhat disappointing was the Thought Cabinet. Neat concept, but from the promo materials, I expected the thoughts to have a much more significant gameplay effect than they did. Or am I missing something that happened under the hood?

Some thoughts are more dangerous than others. Like feminism. It makes you weak, like a man of Wö.

There are a couple of time where certain thoughts come out from the back-seat and grab the steering wheel. That is something ZA/UM clearly were experimenting with, not willing to fully commit to that kind of an approach. And it is good to exercise caution, it isn't much fun when you lose control of your character in that way.

 

[Darth Roxor]

Goral is a hero

 

[ItsChon]

I've finished the game and all I've said is even more true. The main problem of the game is that it's for one play-through only.

For a lot of us, it is not trivial at all. There are RPGs that are made to be highly replayable, and, like Goral, those are the games I am generally after. They are usually games with a combat character where builds matter, and experimenting with various builds is fun. As a matter of fact, the 1st playthrough is usually the most uninteresting to me, because I don't know what is going on and I can't plan ahead.

The one exception is PST where combat was uninteresting but the writing was superb. I must have done 4 playthroughs of PST (which are very few for a favorite), if memory serves. It is one of my favorites, but as an exception.

This is just to let you know that people RPGamers like us exist. Replayability is an issue. Since DE was never going to have serious combat, it was never going to have replayability either, unless the skill checks opened up different story routes AOD-style. And, as far as I understand, they didn't.

While it is clear that replayability certainly makes a game better, I don't think it's fair to cite a game's lack of replayability as a major issue.

So far all I've seen from you and other DE fanboys (in response to my opinion with sensible arguments) were butthurt ratings and personal attacks which suggests that even fanboys see the problems I've written but choose to ignore it like some kids trying to defy the reality.

The issue has nothing to do with your individual critiques specifically. The problem is that you blow them wildly out of proportion. I'll try to address each of your points, starting with your criticism of the game's linearity and invisible walls.

Spoiler

ontrary to what ZA/UM are advertising this game isn't open world at all, we have invisible walls everywhere and in various forms. One such example I've provided here

This was a garbage example. Perhaps instead of jumping into the docks from the railing, you should have considered the consequences of jumping down to an enclosed area, with no obvious way of getting back up. This is a clear example of choice & consequence versus an invisible wall. There are various ways you can enter through the docks, and I'd argue that this section of the game was one of the more open-ended sections, as the game provides three different ways of getting into the docks, all with varying requirements and outcomes.

We can't walk to the other side of the town until Wednesday

Almost every game has some form of gated content, whether it's the old IE games, Underrail, AoD, etc. This example is valid, it's just ridiculous of you to hold it against the game.

we can't progress unless Kim is with us (even though we can ask the same questions and observe the same things and his presence changes nothing we still can't advance and if we can we die because of plot reasons, e.g. when confronting a certain person that has both me and Kim under control anyway)

Except you can advance the plot without Kim, right up until encountering with Ruby. I advanced the story a ton while Kim was gone, learning a lot in the fishing village, talking with Joyce, ruling out possible spots where the shooting could have occurred, etc. And I fail to see how you being unable to successfully survive the encounter with Ruby if you're without Kim as a knock against the game being open world. An open-world game doesn't mean every option is possible, it just means that you have the right to attempt things with no guarantee of success. You have an AoD avatar, one would think you'd understand that.

and in general we can't do something unless we meet some stupid requirements like clicking on a "conclude day" as if that would change anything.

There is nothing inherently wrong with having to fulfill a requirement if you want to do a specific action. Take away the word stupid (didn't explain or qualify why the requirements are stupid), and this statement would be neutral.

Another example, we can't talk with "Sunday friend" once we walk out even though we know he's in there (unless he jumped through the window) because it's just a scripted scene.

How do you know he's going to be there the following days? Whether or not he doesn't just up and leave after the conversation is left ambiguous. And even if I were to secede this point, it's one encounter out of an entire game.

Or we can't play the tape unless Kim is with us.

This is a fair point, no arguments there. The game should have allowed us to play the tape, and then prompted us with Kim asking to replay it once he returned.

Even not having a flashlight prevents us from advancing in a certain area, we can't hurt ourselves trying to do it or just walk by holding our hand on the wall, developers just didn't give us that option and that's it.

And if the game hit you with some text and/or killed you, you would have railed against the game for preventing you from doing something. Short of letting you walk in the dark without a flashlight, you would have found some bullshit to say about the game keeping you from doing something.

Now for your points regarding the writing.

Spoiler

For example Titus guy, one of the more interesting characters in the game and one of the more reasonable ones will still kill us for no good reason. When he did shoot me I was like "OK, he's just some trigger happy brute that is impulsive and unreasonable" but later I've learned he can actually use his brain. Inconsistent writing in my eyes.

It's entirely possible to be an impulsive brute that easily succumbs to his emotions when the right buttons are pressed, while also being very intelligent. A low-T individual such as yourself probably wouldn't understand, but as someone who is very intelligent while also being prone to fits of irrational violence and rage, it's very consistent and fitting. Especially because the game makes it clear that there is a clear change in Titus's demeanor and body language as he grows to trust the police more and more.

In addition that Kurvitz guy must have used drugs a lot and it shows. The ending was ridiculous and one of the weakest parts but that craziness that was often injected in even very well written conversations, spoiled everything for me. Most characters were also comical so unless I would treat it all as parody I can't rate it highly

What craziness, and which characters were absurdly comical? Care to elaborate?

The phantasmal madness was just retarded, dreams were retarded, characters like the woman with our gun or the guy in the container were retarded, scenes where we were incapacitated by waves were retarded, whole anodic music and that computer plot were retarded.

When in doubt, just call shit you didn't like retarded. Nice.

On the other hand they often tried to make an impact by killing someone off, whether it was that near library woman's husband, or Renee or another guy (there were more) to me it felt like a cheap attempt to move us but in my case it had opposite effect mainly because in the end they were some random NPCs which we didn't have much time to get to know.

What do you mean by "make an impact"? They didn't kill off the library woman's husband, we never met his character and it's clear that he had been dead for a while. You weren't supposed to feel sorry for the dead person, you were supposed to feel empathy towards the woman who lost someone she loved, despite his flaws. It also serves to further establish the tone of the game and further emphasizes the struggles felt by the main character, and many of the other flawed and troubled characters that we meet throughout the game.

As for Rene dying, while it is partially dependant on how much you bonded and enjoyed speaking with him, you're also missing the conversation that you can have with Rene's friends, and it's rather gut-wrenching to hear him lament about losing one of his remaining friends. There were various other reasons and things that you missed, but I can't be bothered to list them all, as it's clear you're doing everything you can to miss the bloody point.

Once you reach the end some stupidities become evident, for example it makes no sense for hanged man's brother to wait until we advance our investigation and pretend to be a striker when he could just kill all Hardie boys anyway

The mercenaries weren't randomly waiting to kill the Hardie boys you fucking monkey. The reason they waited was that they were being paid to deal with the Union strike, and randomly killing several unionists in the middle of the street would have clear consequences. On the day of the tribunal, the mercenaries had all been drinking, and it is in this drunken rage they throw all caution and sense to the wind. How can you expect anyone to take your critiques seriously when you either purposely misrepresent or completely misunderstand such basic details.

During that scene I've provided some very compelling evidence that showed they weren't behind it but he ignored it anyway so why the wait when he didn't want to hear the truth but enact revenge only? Also, I hope that we could do that scene knowing who the real culprit was, otherwise the writing is even shittier than I thought and our options even narrower.

They were all drunk as fuck, and they had no reason to believe the words of a police officer who had every reason to lie and misrepresent the situation to try and avoid a firefight, which in turn would lead to their only chance at bringing justice to their comrade's supposed killer.

Or there are slip ups such as this one:

Congrats, but the examples you provided don't evidence poor writing, but instead, evidence the game systems not fully recognizing which dialogue checks had already been made. While certainly a problem and immersion breaking, this isn't relevant to the actual writing of the game itself.

Now for the rest of it.

Spoiler

The world we can explore is very small and with not much exploration and the other part of town that opens up is rather empty

Just because the map is small doesn't mean that there isn't much to explore. There is in fact, thirty hours worth of content to explore, and I had no problems with the content distribution on the other side of town. Whatever, a very minor throw away point.

There aren't that many quests either and although unique, most of them are quite boring.

The entire runtime of the game is based on quests, and there is thirty hours worth of content give or take, so I don't understand what you mean when you say there aren't many quests? Could the game be longer? Definitely, doesn't mean there is a lack of content though. As for you claiming they're boring, again, we get it, you didn't like the game. It definitely doesn't mean the quests are boring.

Game is also super easy, at the end I had like 12 or 13 free points and easily passed all relevant checks (and without resorting to using substances/clothes), and I could have more to be honest. I've also had over 200 in Revachol currency and didn't know what to do with it (I wonder though whether it's possible to buy the 700 lamp, I assume it is). And morale/health system is just retarded, e.g. losing morale for thinking about others (and being emphatic), WTF? I would say it's a sign of a healthy person and I should gain a morale point if anything. The dialogue system is also stupid since we can repeat the same conversation and get different results and NPCs won't acknowledge that (compare it to recent The Outer Worlds for example, it's night and day difference):

This was touched upon in the other thread, but just because you saved your points like an autist and didn't use them (meaning you missed out on a bunch of passive checks that happen without you being alerted), doesn't mean the points are useless. The game is easy though. Good thing it's a narrative based game where the difficulty has little to do with the actual quality of the game itself (minus the final scene where you attempt to incriminate the deserter).

Add to all of it political correctness and SJW content and you have a game very much not to my liking.

Get the fuck out of here with this shit. There was no political correctness and SJW content in the game. I'd love for any of the people railing against this point to provide actual examples of such.

TL;DR: You made some valid points but most of it was overexaggerated shite, where you either purposely misrepresented or just flat out misunderstood parts of the game. It's clear that your supposed "review" is coming from a biased place, and you didn't give the game a fair shake. People that say the game is shit because they don't like games without combat are actually making valid points, and I can't argue with anyone who says that. But when you try to come here and larp like you gave the game a fair shake, you look like a clown. I ignored your post not because I didn't have answers to what you wrote, but because it's clear you've already made up your mind about the game, and you were looking for any reason you could to shit on it.

 

[ItsChon]

Goral is a hero

Goral actually points out the flaws and gets pilloried for it, while the acolytes of the church of ZA/UM remind me uncannily of the libtards that support Undertale though even more insufferable due to the pseudo-sophisto writing which makes them think it's high art.





PS: On another note it's good that Commie devs chose the right kind of game to tap into the CYOA, hipster walking sim, everybody wins, style which generates the right kind of media and 'progressive' attention. If they actually made a game with hard and deep mechanics about trying to reform the Soviet State, it would not have been all that successful. So...it's nice that they get to eat. Let them have a brofist too:

Goral is biased as fuck, and possibly retarded. You guys are in the same boat though, so it's cool.

 

[Prime Junta]

Everybody’s biased. Some are just more self-aware about it than others.

 

[Haba]

Goral is special. If you are special like Goral is, you won't like DE.

 

[ItsChon]

If you didn't like the game because it doesn't have combat, or because you thought it was boring, that's one thing. But when people come here and call the game shit, and then try to make up reasons to justify why they didn't like the game, that's when the real retards are exposed.

 

[Kyl Von Kull]

Do you know of any RPGs with no combat, then? Genuinely curious.

Not the point. When an adventure game developer and interactive fiction aficionado tells us it’s neither a CYOA nor a gamebook, nor a visual novel, maybe we should believe him? If you don’t think it’s possible for a CRPG to have no combat (100% possible in a TTRPG, which is why I have no problem considering Disco an RPG), then say it’s sui generis.

 

[luj1]

As I've said, it's Bethesda level of design.

While I agree about replay value being poor, the DE approach has nothing in common with Beth. Bethesda butchered creative aspects of videogame design and produces industrial algorithmic garbage.

Contrary to what ZA/UM are advertising this game isn't open world at all

This I agree with 1000%.

 

[luj1]

You might say that DE is a very good RPG minus combat,...

Do you know of any CRPGs with no combat? I don't.

... but a CYOA book is not an RPG minus combat, it's something else entirely.

Point taken.

 

[ScrotumBroth]

There's plenty of combat in DE....with oneself.

 

[Prime Junta]

There's plenty of combat in DE....with oneself.

Also there is combat in DE. I've punched a kid, roundhouse kicked a race theorist in the face, shot two people, and gotten shot.

 

[Darth Roxor]

seems to me like it's not bethesda, but bioware level of design

there was a time when fake choices that all ultimately led to the same outcomes were considered a bad thing, but i suppose once you let them stew a bit in wacky communism everything becomes a-okay

 

[Fairfax]

If you don’t think it’s possible for a CRPG to have no combat (100% possible in a TTRPG,

Nonsense.

And since you're so fond of appeals to authority, might as well listen to the person who created the RPG instead:

If a game is nothing but role-playing, then it is not really a RPG, but some form of improvisational theater, for the game form includes far more than acting out assumed roles.

“Storytelling” games are not RPGs.

If people enjoy playing limited roles in a game setting in which there are "untouchables," where they must be marionettes for the GM to move about, well and good. It is just not full RPG activity, and often is little more than amateur theatrics, play acting in a minor and surely inferior story line built as an adjunct to the original authored fiction and relatively meaningless to that work. Still, if it's entertaining to the participants, it is fulfilling its purpose, but it ain't RPGing.

 

[Prime Junta]

What does any of that have to do with combat?

 

[luj1]

Prime Junta at least have some sense of measure you vile shill.

 

[IHaveHugeNick]

Maybe the real combat wasn't meant to be in Disco Elysium, but on the forums since everyone tabs out during loading screens every 5 minutes.