Codex Review RPG Codex Review: Disco Elysium

[Deleted Member 22431]

The review was a bit hard to read, because it felt like dating my ex wife all over again.

You poor, poor man.

 

[Alpan]

Yes, but it is an intellectual exercise in how to eviscerate the game such that it causes discomfort in the intended audience.

That sounds interesting. If I'm the intended audience, I look forward to your efforts.

It would be a tender sort of discomfort, I quite like the game after all. So if I were to write something like that it wouldn't be about shitting on ZA/UM (or you, or anyone else who likes the game), but trying to pick the game apart, think more critically about some of its aspects and especially part of ZA/UM's agenda (i.e. a game about being a failure and all that). There are some obvious holes I don't feel enough people are poking or which when pointed out too easily get shot down as trolling. Disco is guaranteed to influence other RPG makers in the future, so it's preferable to have a wider critical arsenal when considering this game.

 

[The_Mask]

bataille - great review. I enjoyed every letter. I felt it was very informative.

My only gripe is that you did not address music much. I see videogames as the extension and next evolutionary step past film (as I am sure most people here do), and sound/music to film is a significant part. I can clearly tell you love to read, and - to some extent - to write, as well, but videogames also have that cinematic perspective added by film, and you rarely address it.

As a definite positive: I am a fast reader (as I presume most people here are), however your reviews are the only ones so far that force me to slow down and carefully read every word, as every sentence oozes nuance, thought and perspective. This is refreshing to me.
Also it's nice that you attempt to debate the gameplay aspect (as much as you can) - that was a weak part of your previous review.

Thanks for your contribution, and please do not make it your last.

 

[The_Mask]

You sound like a weak bitch sorinmask how many rounds in the cage would you last before I dab on your anal virginity huh my darling boy

quests
Find Collar 8: "Dog"
Technical information
base id
xx00dfcf

 

[Alpan]

I see videogames as the extension and next evolutionary step past film (as I am sure most people here do)

Are you sure you're on the right forum?

 

[Tigranes]

I see videogames as the extension and next evolutionary step past film (as I am sure most people here do)

Are you sure you're on the right forum?

Given how many people here played all the Mass Effects, probably.

 

[Deleted Member 22431]

I see videogames as the extension and next evolutionary step past film.

 

[Puteo]

It takes a bit of time with the game to truly get what Esprit de Corps is really about

for you

Did you know from the character creation screen that EdC is a skill that mostly feeds you cool police-themed vignettes?

To be fair, that's not what you said. It's trivial to figure out what EdC is about from the very first interaction with Kim (where IIRC it triggers the first time). Its extent does take a bit of time to fully get going, otherwise there isn't all that much ambiguity.

Indeed, that is exactly at the point where I also made my judgement about the purpose of EdC which proved correct throughout the rest of the game. I mean, if you know what Esprit De Corps means and combine that with the way all the other Psyche skills function it's a pretty simple deduction.

Of course I haven't written several pages of purple prose about the game so what do I know?

 

[Morroweird]

I'm intrigued by the rpg/cyoa discussion here. Can you lose or be losing? Does it involve player skill to distribute or use skills? Does it demand things like reading comprehension or attention to detail?

 

[ItsChon]

Well-written and interesting, though I feel like the review was written more for people that have played the game/are familiar with it, versus for someone who has no idea what the game is about. Since I'm the former, absolutely no complaints here.

Also, everyone here posting their bullshit about DE not being an RPG needs to answer MRY's great post or shut the fuck up. Part of the reason the CRPG genre has degenerated into such decline is that people would rather shitpost about irrelevant guff versus having an actual discussion about games and their mechanics. The terrible RPGs reflect the general quality of the discourse regarding RPGs.

 

[Alpan]

Can you lose or be losing?

Yes, but you don't lose in an interesting way. It's meme-level -- "I tried to get my tie and failed, had a heart attack, 10/10 great game".

Does it involve player skill to distribute or use skills?

No.

Does it demand things like reading comprehension or attention to detail?

Absolutely. I guess that could qualify as "player skill".

 

[Tigranes]

Well-written and interesting, though I feel like the review was written more for people that have played the game/are familiar with it, versus for someone who has no idea what the game is about. Since I'm the former, absolutely no complaints here.

Also, everyone here posting their bullshit about DE not being an RPG needs to answer MRY's great post or shut the fuck up. Part of the reason the CRPG genre has degenerated into such decline is that people would rather shitpost about irrelevant guff versus having an actual discussion about games and their mechanics. The terrible RPGs reflect the general quality of the discourse regarding RPGs.

"What is an RPG?" posts have almost never been worth reading. It's basically a byproduct of industrial waste necessary to keep the Codex running.

I imagine Plato also had to deal with retards who came to hear him speak then would fight loudly for years and years on end about what makes the Form of a Horse.

 

[Alpan]

I imagine Plato also had to deal with retards who came to hear him speak then would fight loudly for years and years on end about what makes the Form of a Horse.

Actually, that motherfucker is the cause of our troubles.

 

[IHaveHugeNick]

The same people who in the release thread would get butthurt at any discussion about mechanics are now complaining that nobody is discussing mechanics.

Ironic.

 

[Kyl Von Kull]

It takes a bit of time with the game to truly get what Esprit de Corps is really about

for you

Did you know from the character creation screen that EdC is a skill that mostly feeds you cool police-themed vignettes?

To be fair, that's not what you said. It's trivial to figure out what EdC is about from the very first interaction with Kim (where IIRC it triggers the first time). Its extent does take a bit of time to fully get going, otherwise there isn't all that much ambiguity.

Indeed, that is exactly at the point where I also made my judgement about the purpose of EdC which proved correct throughout the rest of the game. I mean, if you know what Esprit De Corps means and combine that with the way all the other Psyche skills function it's a pretty simple deduction.

Of course I haven't written several pages of purple prose about the game so what do I know?

“You fool, you claim it takes a bit of time with the game to understand how esprit de corps works, but I understood it immediately after a bit of time with the game.”

 

[Puteo]

It takes a bit of time with the game to truly get what Esprit de Corps is really about

for you

Did you know from the character creation screen that EdC is a skill that mostly feeds you cool police-themed vignettes?

To be fair, that's not what you said. It's trivial to figure out what EdC is about from the very first interaction with Kim (where IIRC it triggers the first time). Its extent does take a bit of time to fully get going, otherwise there isn't all that much ambiguity.

Indeed, that is exactly at the point where I also made my judgement about the purpose of EdC which proved correct throughout the rest of the game. I mean, if you know what Esprit De Corps means and combine that with the way all the other Psyche skills function it's a pretty simple deduction.

Of course I haven't written several pages of purple prose about the game so what do I know?

“You fool, you claim it takes a bit of time with the game to understand how esprit de corps works, but I understood it immediately after a bit of time with the game.”

But do you truly understand it?

 

[MRY]

By the way -- one feature of the game that IMO was under-utilized and frankly somewhat disappointing was the Thought Cabinet. Neat concept, but from the promo materials, I expected the thoughts to have a much more significant gameplay effect than they did. Or am I missing something that happened under the hood?

 

[Zed Duke of Banville]

TLDR
Did it make you cry?

 

[Kyl Von Kull]

By the way -- one feature of the game that IMO was under-utilized and frankly somewhat disappointing was the Thought Cabinet. Neat concept, but from the promo materials, I expected the thoughts to have a much more significant gameplay effect than they did. Or am I missing something that happened under the hood?

Depends. There’s more to most thoughts than just a bonus and a malus. Some thoughts unlock a bunch of new dialogue options (or new conversations with yourself), some thoughts spawn additional thoughts. Off the top of my head, the finger guns thought lets you start making finger guns at people. The litany of Contact Mike lets you give little inspirational speeches about your favorite boxer. The race-theory thought unlocks another thought that helps you get sober. The Suicide of Kras Masov has a bunch of unique dialogue. One Finger on the Eject Button hits you with suicidal ideation every night.

Some of this stuff is harder to notice unless you’re replaying it because the game doesn’t point out what’s thought related and what’s always there. Also, in addition to the listed effects, thoughts can give you huge boosts with various red and white checks, but you’ll never notice unless you’re mousing through the modifiers on each check.

 

[MRY]

I guess I'd say that it's uneven, and that this is another area where the game could be a bit more explicit about what is causing what to happen -- though perhaps I'm wrong on that latter point. I sort of thing that in a game like this, it's probably rewarding to the player to highlight the causes that yielded effects.

 

[PorkyThePaladin]

Thought I came to the wrong place, an RPG review mentioning existentialism, magical realism, and postmodernism... I guess a proper literary review for an outstanding literary game. Great job! Also, enjoy it, cause it's likely back to the goblins and pew-pew for the next 20 years.

 

[MuscleSpark]

Truly monocled gentlemen read.
Combat grognards are just as bad as popamolers who want to click buttons and watch AWESOME stuff happen.

 

[Goral]

I disagree with the reviewer almost entirely but I don't have time for quote wars (at least not at the moment) so here's my opinion where I actually mention more evident flaws:

I've finished the game and all I've said is even more true. The main problem of the game is that it's for one play-through only. Oh, I don't doubt that some storyfags will finish it a couple of times but most people won't find such determination because if you'll play it once you will see almost all relevant content. Stats don't matter much, we're still role-playing the same cop, doing the same things, using the same tools. With INT 1 we can articulate the same responses as with INT 5, the only difference is we won't be able to raise Visual Calculus (or other skills associated with INT) to a high enough level for it to be a useful skill (then again we can always save-scum, which is another problem, a game that allows that is just badly designed, although it's not a major flaw). But we can use a different skill to achieve the same goal so in the end there is no difference, only labels change. As I've said, it's Bethesda level of design. E.g. whether I used visual calculus or just broke the door down the result was the same.

Contrary to what ZA/UM are advertising this game isn't open world at all, we have invisible walls everywhere and in various forms. One such example I've provided here but there are plethora of them. We can't walk to the other side of the town until Wednesday, we can't progress unless Kim is with us (even though we can ask the same questions and observe the same things and his presence changes nothing we still can't advance and if we can we die because of plot reasons, e.g. when confronting a certain person that has both me and Kim under control anyway) and in general we can't do something unless we meet some stupid requirements like clicking on a "conclude day" as if that would change anything. Another example, we can't talk with "Sunday friend" once we walk out even though we know he's in there (unless he jumped through the window) because it's just a scripted scene. Or we can't play the tape unless Kim is with us. Anyway, in no other game I've felt so restrained. Even not having a flashlight prevents us from advancing in a certain area, we can't hurt ourselves trying to do it or just walk by holding our hand on the wall, developers just didn't give us that option and that's it.

Writing is very uneven, sometimes it's good, very good at rare occasions, and sometimes it's just atrocious. What I mean by uneven?

Spoiler

For example Titus guy, one of the more interesting characters in the game and one of the more reasonable ones will still kill us for no good reason. When he did shoot me I was like "OK, he's just some trigger happy brute that is impulsive and unreasonable" but later I've learned he can actually use his brain. Inconsistent writing in my eyes.

In addition that Kurvitz guy must have used drugs a lot and it shows. The ending was ridiculous and one of the weakest parts but that craziness that was often injected in even very well written conversations, spoiled everything for me. Most characters were also comical so unless I would treat it all as parody I can't rate it highly. The phantasmal madness was just retarded, dreams were retarded, characters like the woman with our gun or the guy in the container were retarded, scenes where we were incapacitated by waves were retarded, whole anodic music and that computer plot were retarded. On the other hand they often tried to make an impact by killing someone off, whether it was that near library woman's husband, or Renee or another guy (there were more) to me it felt like a cheap attempt to move us but in my case it had opposite effect mainly because in the end they were some random NPCs which we didn't have much time to get to know.

Once you reach the end some stupidities become evident, for example it makes no sense for hanged man's brother to wait until we advance our investigation and pretend to be a striker when he could just kill all Hardie boys anyway. During that scene I've provided some very compelling evidence that showed they weren't behind it but he ignored it anyway so why the wait when he didn't want to hear the truth but enact revenge only? Also, I hope that we could do that scene knowing who the real culprit was, otherwise the writing is even shittier than I thought and our options even narrower.

Or there are slip ups such as this one:

Kim says we've searched the church but I haven't asked about Ruby there.

Or this one:

At this point I've found Night City and knew what that is.

The world we can explore is very small and with not much exploration and the other part of town that opens up is rather empty, making walking even more tedious (and it is tedious because even running is slow, add to it constant loading and you have a disaster). There aren't that many quests either and although unique, most of them are quite boring. In general gameplay is almost non-existent so if one doesn't appreciate Kurvitz's "sophisticated" humour and writing he definitely won't enjoy the game.

Game is also super easy, at the end I had like 12 or 13 free points and easily passed all relevant checks (and without resorting to using substances/clothes), and I could have more to be honest. I've also had over 200 in Revachol currency and didn't know what to do with it (I wonder though whether it's possible to buy the 700 lamp, I assume it is). And morale/health system is just retarded, e.g. losing morale for thinking about others (and being emphatic), WTF? I would say it's a sign of a healthy person and I should gain a morale point if anything. The dialogue system is also stupid since we can repeat the same conversation and get different results and NPCs won't acknowledge that (compare it to recent The Outer Worlds for example, it's night and day difference):



Well, there is a plus side to this though and that is - sometimes it makes sense that once we find some new clue asking the same question again can get us new information but in general it is a bad thing and is just stupid. Some other example:

Spoiler

I show him my gun and tell him I've found it but a moment later I can ask about my lost gun and he says something along the lines "if you behave you might get it back", lol.

Add to all of it political correctness and SJW content and you have a game very much not to my liking.

What I liked:
+ I couldn't forge letters in the open because there was risk of Evrart's men noticing. Then again I could have written it in the open and they wouldn't know what I'm writing...
+ Music
+ Art
+ Some characters, although the writing was very uneven

All in all I rate it 5/10 but it's more of a "I should give it 4/10 or less when I remember how tedious and boring some parts were" and "but taking into account good parts I should rate it 6/10". It's not your average game which that rating might indicate, it's a rather unique game, with some fresh ideas and sometimes very good writing but due to the above I wasn't enjoying it that much in the long run and what's most important it's highly unlikely I'll replay this game. Like I said, it's a game for one play through only and in my eyes if an RPG isn't fun at consecutive replays it's not a good RPG (hence I consider Fallout, AoD and Arcanum as the best of the best).

P.S.
Here are some screenshots I've made that prove my points one way or another: https://imgur.com/a/YLQVXrV

 

[Lithium Flower]

I disagree with the reviewer almost entirely but I don't have time for quote wars (at least not at the moment)

Right, easier to just drop the wall of text that you've posted at least 2 other times elsewhere and peace the fuck out before people inevitably call you a turd for doing so

 

[Goral]

I disagree with the reviewer almost entirely but I don't have time for quote wars (at least not at the moment)

Right, easier to just drop the wall of text that you've posted at least 2 other times elsewhere and peace the fuck out before people inevitably call you a turd for doing so

That's massively ironic and you're too retarded to realize it :D.

So far all I've seen from you and other DE fanboys (in response to my opinion with sensible arguments) were butthurt ratings and personal attacks which suggests that even fanboys see the problems I've written but choose to ignore it like some kids trying to defy the reality.

Also, my opinion is self explanatory and quite elaborated so quote wars (which will only be read by me and the reviewer or not even that) aren't necessary.