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Codex Review RPG Codex Review: Jagged Alliance 3

ArchAngel

Arcane
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Mar 16, 2015
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Yes
Home > Forums > RPG Discussion > News & Content Feedback

Also reviews are done for all kinds of games
Fair enough, News should be moved to another, more appropriate forum then.
You joined 2007, had only 109 posts before this and you wasted 3 posts to complain about something so unimportant.
I suggest you get Codex Autist of the year award or something..
 

Iluvcheezcake

Prophet
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Messages
1,640
Location
Le Balkans
I can see fans of little soldiers pew pew games have their arguments ready and I wouldn't dream of trying to single anyone out, just saying - JA2 could technically be considered a CRPG because it had a protagonist merc and it is easier to agree with autistics rather than argue semantics with them; JA3 doesn't have a protagonist though, it is not a CRPG, period

so fans of tactics games should suck it up and discuss that game in the general gaming subforum or something

But, JA3 has a protagonist I.M.P merc...
 

BlaineMono

Liturgist
Joined
Aug 3, 2007
Messages
117
I can see fans of little soldiers pew pew games have their arguments ready and I wouldn't dream of trying to single anyone out, just saying - JA2 could technically be considered a CRPG because it had a protagonist merc and it is easier to agree with autistics rather than argue semantics with them; JA3 doesn't have a protagonist though, it is not a CRPG, period

so fans of tactics games should suck it up and discuss that game in the general gaming subforum or something

But, JA3 has a protagonist I.M.P merc...

It does? Oh all right, this thread can stay then
 

Surf Solar

cannot into womynz
Joined
Jan 8, 2011
Messages
8,814
Another 3d abomination!
We went from gorgeous 2d graphics in ja2:
https://cdn.akamai.steamstatic.com/...12f991baf9519a2a7907.600x338.jpg?t=1502453641

to this vomit inducing 3d shit today
And codexers are fapping to this 3d rotatable atrocity! What a joke this site has become!

Yup. Searched the review for mentions of the abomination that is this zoomer graphics style, no fixed camera with rotate-a-mole playstyle and so much other stuff missing that made JA2 great. Mediocre game at best.

Kinda edgy and trying too hard m8.
Shame tho, missing out on a good game.
Ok, decline enabler.
 

raeven

Educated
Joined
Aug 29, 2020
Messages
243
I can see fans of little soldiers pew pew games have their arguments ready and I wouldn't dream of trying to single anyone out, just saying - JA2 could technically be considered a CRPG because it had a protagonist merc and it is easier to agree with autistics rather than argue semantics with them; JA3 doesn't have a protagonist though, it is not a CRPG, period

so fans of tactics games should suck it up and discuss that game in the general gaming subforum or something

But, JA3 has a protagonist I.M.P merc...

It does? Oh all right, this thread can stay then

I'm doing my second playthrough now and the game is honestly much better without ever making an IMP / protagonist merc. Partially because the voice acting for the IMP character is really dull. Some would say the same about JA2 although the voice acting for the IMP merc is much better...
 

spectre

Arcane
Joined
Oct 26, 2008
Messages
5,363
I'm doing my second playthrough now and the game is honestly much better without ever making an IMP / protagonist merc. Partially because the voice acting for the IMP character is really dull. Some would say the same about JA2 although the voice acting for the IMP merc is much better...
Well, just this phrase:
"We've got some inconveniences to dispose of!"
and it already paints a whole lot of pictures in my head.

I agree, the IMP is really eclipsed in JA3, but that's because the other mercs butt into the conversations so bloody often.
I think the problem is that you're gimping yourself, mechanically speaking, by not picking an IMP. It basically means you must pick Raider for the leadership, with no good early alternatives.
 

Strange Fellow

Peculiar
Patron
Joined
Jun 21, 2018
Messages
3,983
Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
Leadership isn't particularly important outside of skill checks in dialogue, and I haven't encountered too many of those for Leadership in particular. For sector operations the Teacher perk is better, such that even someone like MD is a better militia-training bot than Kalyna with 54 Leadership but no Teacher. I know Leadership also affects movement speed, but who cares about movement speed?
 

spectre

Arcane
Joined
Oct 26, 2008
Messages
5,363
Leadership isn't particularly important outside of skill checks in dialogue, and I haven't encountered too many of those for Leadership in particular. For sector operations the Teacher perk is better, such that even someone like MD is a better militia-training bot than Kalyna with 54 Leadership but no Teacher. I know Leadership also affects movement speed, but who cares about movement speed?
Negro pls... assymetric warfare 101.
Movement speed - you cover more ground and get to react to events. Since mercs get paid per day, higher mobility means more bang for your buck,
more mines captured, more diamond convoys taken.
And since it's an RPG, you get more leeway on those pesky timed mission.

That said, if you manage to get by with low leadership, more power to you. From what I've seen folks were bitching about balance (mostly yewtube randos and some stuff on the steam hub)
because they didn't realize how important it was.
 

Strange Fellow

Peculiar
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Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
Fair point about the timed missions. I haven't been able to save Biff unless I was in the vicinity when the distress call came in, nor do the sanatorium quest in 10 days with a single squad. Maybe with a high leadership merc you could do those things. For general use, though, it's only relevant if money is relevant, which is to say it isn't. Probably Leaderhip gets more important if money is tighter, which I'm hoping a mod will fix.

I will admit I'm talking out of my ass here, as I haven't bothered with a super high leadership merc at all except as a militia-bot. (With no Ira around I have to make my own. Decline!)

(mostly yewtube randos and some stuff on the steam hub)
We both know the value of those opinions. :M
 

spectre

Arcane
Joined
Oct 26, 2008
Messages
5,363
Loved this game. And I actually finished it, unlike JA2 (which I also loved but never finished).
I feel that, JA2 is a game you can easily get tangled going everywhere, liberating everything.
Then it actually takes some stamina to get past all the shit in the last sectors if you go for a frontal assault.

Do yourself a favor and revisit it. The ending is really satisfying and you only really need to kill Deidrianna.
Each merc has a unique piece of dialogue for the occassion, which you can look up on the wiki as an ersatz.

We both know the value of those opinions. :M
Yeah, I've seen people bitch about money and mines running out, made me scratch my head.
As for leadership, I think I linked this video in the discussion thread,

The travel speed bonus is simply ridiculous, Raider can move in and out of the sector, then move in one more time, before Ice travels one square.
 

raeven

Educated
Joined
Aug 29, 2020
Messages
243
I used Thor as my leadership merc and he was great, no problem passing skill checks and I was able to afford him on MI difficulty before leaving Ernie Island.

spectre they rebalanced leadership calculation to not be so powerful in the latest patch. It still has an effect, just not as big.
 

raeven

Educated
Joined
Aug 29, 2020
Messages
243
Thor is also the best medic in the game. Not the highest medical stat, but amazing stats in every area that counts.
 

Darth Roxor

Royal Dongsmith
Staff Member
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Djibouti
There were generally two things in the revio that I thought were FACTUALLY INCORRECT and which still trigger me somewhat.

While the UI for the combat view is functional enough

The 'functional enough' UI for the combat view was one of the things that made me ragequit without even finishing the demo, because this UI was made in hell. The clickspam of a hundred million billion hotspots is definitely a part of it, but there are also other factors like the hotkeys for everything being assigned to the most unintuitive letters possible, or there being (seemingly?) no way to immediately switch to a specific merc with a hotkey, which to me is downright unacceptable. And then there was the general total retardation related to stealth controls and such, which may or may not have been fixed by the addition of the active pause, but overall I remember constantly swearing at the UI over my very short adventure with the demo.

(it is one of the most effective ways to play the game, as enemies running towards you like lemmings is one area where the game conforms to tradition)

Enemies in previous JA may have had their brainfarts like repeatedly moving in and out of the edge of the fog of war or whatever, but at least generally speaking they retained some kind of self-preservation instinct and would only really charge you head-on into close range if they wanted to stab you with a knoif (and had the AP to do it). Meanwhile in just the demo I saw instances of enemy dudes straight up running past your entrenched guys, to stand in the open on the other side of their killzone. I've never seen anything of the sort in any Jagged Alliance game, meanwhile here I've seen it happen after an hour of playtime.

Also I have to say I commend your resistance to the utter stupidity that is the pod activation shit, because that was the #1 idiocy that made me ragequit and disregard this game completely. It's terrible design, it goes against any and all turn-based combat principles, it reeks of incompetence, and it's aggravating each time it happens, especially when it happens with a "twist" like when the pod activates after X of your guys have already moved, the enemies all take cover, and now you're stuck with 3 dudes standing outside cover without action points.

As far as I'm concerned the curse of Jagged Alliance remains unbroken.
 

raeven

Educated
Joined
Aug 29, 2020
Messages
243
Hot take: JA3 unequivocally does not have a pod system.
Meaning, the move-to-cover only applies to individual enemies?

Uh

No?

"Pod" system and "scramble turn" are completely independent concepts. One does not imply the other.

"Pod" system refers to enemies who are in inseparable groups that react as one when alerted to the player. In nuXCom 2, there was a binary "is your soldier hidden or not" status that determined if you were detected. The whole idea of it being a "pod" is that the pods were separated from one another and could not affect one another unless "popped", meaning the player spotted them.

In JA3, enemy soldiers act independently and are alerted independently based on each ones proximity to the player, what they hear, etc. They may be in groups, but that is not the same thing. Mechanically it is fundamentally different than nuXcom.
 

Zed Duke of Banville

Dungeon Master
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I used Thor as my leadership merc and he was great, no problem passing skill checks and I was able to afford him on MI difficulty before leaving Ernie Island.

spectre they rebalanced leadership calculation to not be so powerful in the latest patch. It still has an effect, just not as big.
Thor is also the best medic in the game. Not the highest medical stat, but amazing stats in every area that counts.
Thor Kaufman is an essential part of the Jagged Alliance experience:

ja3kaufman4vcwo.png
 

Strange Fellow

Peculiar
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Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
The inability to select a specific merc with the keyboard is idiotic, no argument there. Apart from that though, the hotkeys are fine. They're all over the keyboard, but memorising keybinds is something I'm used to doing in this kind of game and it took me no time to get used to. At least they're consistent and don't just make the number keys correspond to the items on the action bar even though those items keep changing. That shit gives me aids.

As for the AI, I'm not going to defend that either because it's true that it sometimes runs around like a headless chicken. Other times it behaves intelligently. Usually it's pretty dumb but can be counted on to shoot at people if there are people for it to shoot at. Frankly I can't make much sense of the thing. It wasn't consistently, offensively bad for me.

especially when it happens with a "twist" like when the pod activates after X of your guys have already moved, the enemies all take cover, and now you're stuck with 3 dudes standing outside cover without action points.
I haven't experienced this exact scenario. It's true that initiating combat with an attack takes the AP cost of the attack away from your first turn, which is something you have to play around. Presumably, if you pull off a stealth kill, which doesn't initiate combat, and then immediately trigger combat with another dude the first dude's AP hasn't had time to "recharge." Regardless, I would say that the opening attack costing AP out of your first turn is expected and intuitive behaviour. That's how it works in 1.13 and in the Silent Storm games.
 

Darth Roxor

Royal Dongsmith
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Messages
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Hot take: JA3 unequivocally does not have a pod system.

tomato, tomeyto

I haven't experienced this exact scenario. It's true that initiating combat with an attack takes the AP cost of the attack away from your first turn, which is something you have to play around. Presumably, if you pull off a stealth kill, which doesn't initiate combat, and then immediately trigger combat with another dude the first dude's AP hasn't had time to "recharge."

What happened to me was not quite the same. IIRC it was like this: I began with a stealth kill, which started combat mode but the other enemies didn't spot me yet. I then repositioned another guy. And on the third guy's turn as I was creeping around, he got spotted and activated the pod which made all the enemies do a free run for cover. It blew my mind that something like this could happen quite literally in the middle of my turn.
 

Zed Duke of Banville

Dungeon Master
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I haven't experienced this exact scenario. It's true that initiating combat with an attack takes the AP cost of the attack away from your first turn, which is something you have to play around.
Fox has the unique talent that her attacks, made in real-time mode, don't deplete her AP when turn-based combat is initiated, which in combination with her other stats and traits makes her arguably the best choice for a sneaky assassin.
 

Strange Fellow

Peculiar
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Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
What happened to me was not quite the same. IIRC it was like this: I began with a stealth kill, which started combat mode but the other enemies didn't spot me yet. I then repositioned another guy. And on the third guy's turn as I was creeping around, he got spotted and activated the pod which made all the enemies do a free run for cover. It blew my mind that something like this could happen quite literally in the middle of my turn.
That was probably the surprise system at work. Sometimes enemies get Surprised capital S when you first start combat, which delays the scramble turn until your next merc takes a shot (or, apparently, until you move other mercs around enough that some other event is triggered). It's supposed to be a split second opportunity to get one more action in before combat starts properly.

If that is indeed what happened then the subsequent behaviour is the game working as intended, because all enemies do get a scramble turn when they're alerted, regardless of whose turn it is or at what point in the turn it happens. It's a lame and gay system. I found it less obnoxious than I thought I would, which has to do with the fact that it's not accompanied by a pod system (in the way that raeven uses the term) coupled with absurd maluses for being out of cover like in XCOM. Hopefully I made it clear enough in the review how dumb it is, so people can make up their own minds as to how much it would bother them. I get how it can be a dealbreaker.
 

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