Review RPG Codex Review: Pillars of Eternity - By Vault Dweller and the Spirit of Grunker

[Zorba the Hutt]

All in all, I liked Storm of Zehir very much. Someone might now ask ‘wait, what? He keeps listing out flaws, but he still says it’s a very good game?’. Well, yes, the game is definitely not flawless, but the cons are totally overshadowed by the pros, and most of the flaws are actually rather minor for this type of gameplay.

Quick, someone get this guy to do the neutral-positive PoE review!

 

[FeelTheRads]

They absolutely are appealing to casuals, from "no bad builds" philosophy to health regeneration, the sheer effectiveness of tanking and spanking against any threat, encounter design, crafting system, per encounter abilities, party members that will never leave/oppose you, knockout instead of death during combat etc.

Yes I know, not all of this was implemented with said goal (making the game more casual friendly) exactly but the end result is the same.

I don't think any of these are appeals to "casuals", but rather things JES considers good design and reducing tedium.

I guess it just happens that what he considers good design also appeals to casuals. Coincidence, I am sure.

 

[Excidium II]

They absolutely are appealing to casuals, from "no bad builds" philosophy to health regeneration, the sheer effectiveness of tanking and spanking against any threat, encounter design, crafting system, per encounter abilities, party members that will never leave/oppose you, knockout instead of death during combat etc.

Yes I know, not all of this was implemented with said goal (making the game more casual friendly) exactly but the end result is the same.

I don't think any of these are appeals to "casuals", but rather things JES considers good design and reducing tedium.

I guess it just happens that what he considers good design also appeals to casuals. Coincidence, I am sure.

It's the result of his "design by observing how people play the games" approach

 

[Excidium II]

IMO the really big thing about the KS phenomenon is that it's demonstrated that there is an untapped market here. That niche PC games with budgets between say $1-8M or so with decent but nowhere near AAA-grade production values can be profitable. I have a hunch that crowdfunding will become more of a marketing tool than an actual funding mechanism.

I don't think it was ever a mystary that niche PC games can be profitable. What is widely known and that kickstart continues to prove is that they only turn minimal profit compared to other projects.

The only thing kickstarter changes is that the people providing the funds are interested in the game itself and not its profitability, and the people working on it are supposedly happy enough to just be paid to work on their dream job

 

[Ausdoerrt]

Didn't play Shadowrun yet, even if I have it installed and even made a dude in the character creator. Cyberpunk with orks is kinda cheesy and the bad art direction doesn't help. It has still failed to attract me to start the campaign. I still have plans to play it, tho with the lowest expectations.

Do yourself a favor and skip the original campaign to go straight to Dragonfall.

They absolutely are appealing to casuals, from "no bad builds" philosophy to health regeneration, the sheer effectiveness of tanking and spanking against any threat, encounter design, crafting system, per encounter abilities, party members that will never leave/oppose you, knockout instead of death during combat etc.

Not gonna comment on the rest, but the health system/knockouts is one of the things that I really liked about PoE's mechanics. It makes sense, it works, and it doesn't really dumb the game down. I fondly think back to PoE every time I play D:OS and have to cast the stupid healing spell on each character after every battle.

 

[Sensuki]

I was surprised by that actually, especially as Josh had said, like, months before the BB that the first thing they did was to get the "IE feel" into the combat..

They were talking out of their arse. One of the only good things about the documentary was that it showed them struggling to get the game to even run at a proper frame rate for a long time. I don't think they even pay attention to what the IE combat is like other than how it controls. By left click selecting a character and then left clicking an enemy.

Eventually it settled into a kind of bland average

Yes, unfortunately this happened after their internal playthrough and at that point they said "No more suggestions, we're bug fixing now".

 

[tuluse]

IMO the really big thing about the KS phenomenon is that it's demonstrated that there is an untapped market here. That niche PC games with budgets between say $1-8M or so with decent but nowhere near AAA-grade production values can be profitable. I have a hunch that crowdfunding will become more of a marketing tool than an actual funding mechanism.

I don't think it was ever a mystary that niche PC games can be profitable. What is widely known and that kickstart continues to prove is that they only turn minimal profit compared to other projects.

The only thing kickstarter changes is that the people providing the funds are interested in the game itself and not its profitability, and the people working on it are supposedly happy enough to just be paid to work on their dream job

Well it cuts out the middle man. Obsidian employees get paid the same if they work on PoE or New Vegas.

 

[Irenaeus II]

Didn't play Shadowrun yet, even if I have it installed and even made a dude in the character creator. Cyberpunk with orks is kinda cheesy and the bad art direction doesn't help. It has still failed to attract me to start the campaign. I still have plans to play it, tho with the lowest expectations.

Do yourself a favor and skip the original campaign to go straight to Dragonfall.

Wouldn't I miss lore/story/gameplay-related stuff?

 

[Excidium II]

Well it cuts out the middle man. Obsidian employees get paid the same if they work on PoE or New Vegas.

Does it really get cut or replaced by a different one?

Wouldn't I miss lore/story/gameplay-related stuff?

It's just a case of the sequel being more of the same but bigger and better. If you play DF first and enjoy it you'll want to try the original but now it will feel like a downgrade.

 

[Morality Games]

Didn't play Shadowrun yet, even if I have it installed and even made a dude in the character creator. Cyberpunk with orks is kinda cheesy and the bad art direction doesn't help. It has still failed to attract me to start the campaign. I still have plans to play it, tho with the lowest expectations.

Do yourself a favor and skip the original campaign to go straight to Dragonfall.

Wouldn't I miss lore/story/gameplay-related stuff?

No. Its not worth taking the chance you'll only finish/start one.

 

[Ninjerk]

Didn't play Shadowrun yet, even if I have it installed and even made a dude in the character creator. Cyberpunk with orks is kinda cheesy and the bad art direction doesn't help. It has still failed to attract me to start the campaign. I still have plans to play it, tho with the lowest expectations.

Do yourself a favor and skip the original campaign to go straight to Dragonfall.

Wouldn't I miss lore/story/gameplay-related stuff?

Not necessary for lore/story, and the game (SRR Dead Man's Switch adventure) is trivially easy on any difficulty mode. Dragonfall is better in almost every way. I will say, however, that until the graveyard, SRR really gives you the feeling you're playing through a Shadowrun version of a Dashiell Hammett or Raymond Chandler novel.

 

[Sabin Rene Figaro]

Wouldn't I miss lore/story/gameplay-related stuff?

Nah.

PoE is better than Dragonfall and Wasteland 2, but all three of them are fairly good games that will hopefully be greatly surpassed in five years or so by new CRPG's coming out.
The one I don't get people losing their shit over is Divinity: Original Sin, it's a pretty fun experience the first 6 hours or so but it shows every card in its hand and up its sleeve real fast, I couldn't get myself bothered to get past the second area. Hell, I liked Dragon Commander more.

 

[Cynicus]

Randomness incoming...

My opinion on Sawyer as a designer is that he's all Cher and no Sonny.

As to Obsidian's kickstarter, it's difficult for me to see POE as much more than a rather cynical attempt by a sinking ship to stay afloat. I seriously doubt anyone at OE had been sitting around dreaming of tapping that IE ass prior to the KS campaign. I can also see why bros like Sceptic would perceive the end result as a bait-and-switch. POE looks like IE but walks like DA (with a peg leg). Whether Obsidian management was intentionally grifting or not, I can't say, but it's irrelevant. At the end of the day, perception is what counts. They milked the IE nostalgia cow and Sawyer churned "death to grognards" butter and smeared it on a bland biscuit. Yuck. Some may like the taste, I do not.

By the same measure, I don't think that POE was totally phoned-in. There are signs of effort, though some of it fell flat. I have nothing but a big bag of kudos for the art team, and I also quite like the CYOA-style cutscenes.

I've not yet written off Obsidian or even POE, but I will be poking anything they do in the future with a stick before digging in.

PoE is better than Dragonfall and Wasteland 2...

Nope. Not in my opinion. Dragonfall is rather simple in its design, but I found it more entertaining than POE in every way. Wasteland 2 definitely has its rough spots, but it at least plays like a genuine throwback to the games of yore. I'm hoping the "redux" treatment that they are giving it will help it come closer to its potential.

 

[Ellef]

Randomness incoming...
Dragonfall is rather simple in its design, but I found it more entertaining than POE in every way.

Dragonfall is made by people who understand deadlines and the limits of a kickstarted games. Limited scope, but a complete package that doesn't come with a lot of vague promises and stretch goal creep.

 

[Prime Junta]

Dragonfall is definitely less flawed than Pillars.

I still liked Pillars more though. There's more ways to play it.

 

[markec]

There's more ways to play it.

Too bad all of them are equally bland.

 

[tuluse]

Dragonfall is made by people who understand deadlines and the limits of a kickstarted games. Limited scope, but a complete package that doesn't come with a lot of vague promises and stretch goal creep.

They were late with DMS, needed more time after that for the "second city" stretch goal (which they decided to turn into a separate campaign, everyone was expecting one long(er) campaign), and then released a Director's Cut upgrade months after that.

Obsidian met every stretch goal* with their initial release (though it was obviously delayed too).

So I'm not sure how you can say HBS is any better at understanding deadlines than any other kickstarted game.


*except the expansion pack which was promised from the beginning to be after release.


"Company A made something I like more than what company B made" is not synonymous with "company A is better at everything".

 

[markec]

I would say that Harebrained Schemes and Dragonfall are a good example of a dev who actually listens to fan feedback and learn from its mistakes.

 

[Irenaeus II]

I would say that Harebrained Schemes and Dragonfall are a good example of a dev who actually listens to fan feedback and learn from its mistakes.

I'm not sure this is the endorsement I want. I liked PoE VERY MUCH and you say it's totally bland. This speaks ill of Harebrained Schemes and Dragonfall.

 

[markec]

I would say that Harebrained Schemes and Dragonfall are a good example of a dev who actually listens to fan feedback and learn from its mistakes.

I'm not sure this is the endorsement I want. I liked PoE VERY MUCH and you say it's totally bland. This speaks ill of Harebrained Schemes and Dragonfall.

How do I speak ill of Harebrained Schemes and Dragonfall?

Shadowrun Returns is a flawed game, they listened to fans and managed to fix many problems with Dragonfall.

As for endorsment, see it like this. I really dont like PoE and yet I really like Dragonfall, so if by your standards PoE is VERY GOOD then youll think Dragonfall is MAJESTIC.

 

[Ninjerk]

I would say that Harebrained Schemes and Dragonfall are a good example of a dev who actually listens to fan feedback and learn from its mistakes.

I'm not sure this is the endorsement I want. I liked PoE VERY MUCH and you say it's totally bland. This speaks ill of Harebrained Schemes and Dragonfall.

How do I speak ill of Harebrained Schemes and Dragonfall?

Shadowrun Returns is a flawed game, they listened to fans and managed to fix many problems with Dragonfall.

As for endorsment, see it like this. I really dont like PoE and yet I really like Dragonfall, so if by your standards PoE is VERY GOOD then youll think Dragonfall is MAJESTIC.

Ironically, he's calling your taste into question.

 

[markec]

I would say that Harebrained Schemes and Dragonfall are a good example of a dev who actually listens to fan feedback and learn from its mistakes.

I'm not sure this is the endorsement I want. I liked PoE VERY MUCH and you say it's totally bland. This speaks ill of Harebrained Schemes and Dragonfall.

How do I speak ill of Harebrained Schemes and Dragonfall?

Shadowrun Returns is a flawed game, they listened to fans and managed to fix many problems with Dragonfall.

As for endorsment, see it like this. I really dont like PoE and yet I really like Dragonfall, so if by your standards PoE is VERY GOOD then youll think Dragonfall is MAJESTIC.

Ironically, he's calling your taste into question.

Thanks to my poor english I realized that a bit too late. Still my last line stands correct, imagine how much he will enjoy Dragonfall if a person who thinks PoE is disappointment loved it.

 

[Irenaeus II]

I would say that Harebrained Schemes and Dragonfall are a good example of a dev who actually listens to fan feedback and learn from its mistakes.

I'm not sure this is the endorsement I want. I liked PoE VERY MUCH and you say it's totally bland. This speaks ill of Harebrained Schemes and Dragonfall.

How do I speak ill of Harebrained Schemes and Dragonfall?

Shadowrun Returns is a flawed game, they listened to fans and managed to fix many problems with Dragonfall.

As for endorsment, see it like this. I really dont like PoE and yet I really like Dragonfall, so if by your standards PoE is VERY GOOD then youll think Dragonfall is MAJESTIC.

Ironically, he's calling your taste into question.

Thanks for explaining the obvious. I'll definitively try Dragonfall, just made this dude.

 

[Sceptic]

Obsidian met every stretch goal* with their initial release (though it was obviously delayed too).

There's more than one way to "meet the stretch goals" though, and ticking off the bullet points doesn't necessarily mean you got quality content. Even people who like the game have complained about the Stronghold and to a lesser extent about the megadungeon.

 

[Excidium II]

Obsidian met every stretch goal* with their initial release (though it was obviously delayed too).

There's more than one way to "meet the stretch goals" though, and ticking off the bullet points doesn't necessarily mean you got quality content. Even people who like the game have complained about the Stronghold and to a lesser extent about the megadungeon.

Some dare say the game would be better without the stretch goals