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Review RPG Codex Review: The Witcher 3: Wild Hunt

deranged

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Solid review. The only thing I disagree with is the comparison with Witcher 2 combat. While indeed the enemy AI is erratic, combat feels more fluid and responsive than the 2nd installment. Not the pinnacle of technical achievement, but not a chore either. (Playing at Death March with a controller for all it matters).
 

Angthoron

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Solid review. The only thing I disagree with is the comparison with Witcher 2 combat. While indeed the enemy AI is erratic, combat feels more fluid and responsive than the 2nd installment. Not the pinnacle of technical achievement, but not a chore either. (Playing at Death March with a controller for all it matters).
Well, this thread seems to have all sorts of radical opinions about it. It might be somewhat better, but what I refer to there is that it's more or less the same principles and controls as in W2. And since I wasn't a big fan of W2 combat, my opinion of W3 model suffers as well.
 
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Great controller controls (supposedly) do not make the KB&M controls good.
...I never said they do?
I've said that there is a good working alternate option, though.
If people want to ignore it for some sort of laughable, misplaced zealotry it's their problem.

I wouldn't want to listen people whining about "bad keyboard controls" while playing Dark Souls or FIFA, neither.
Not sure why it should be particularly different for TW3.

Also, please, go and call "dumb" your mother, your sister or someone else in your family tree, since I don't remember we ever shared any degree of confidence.

So, you did notice a problem with the kb+m controls.
Yeah? Good things there are options.
Also, what I noticed is that the game controls better, more intuitively and responsively with a controller, but even at its worse it's nowhere near as bad as TW2 was at its best.
Even the "latency" problem you mentioned is nowhere near as bad as it was in almost any given moment playing TW2.
Maybe it matters more now, sure, since most enemies are less dull to fight (when they remember to work properly).
 
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VentilatorOfDoom

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Also, what I noticed is that the game controls better, more intuitively and responsively with a controller, but even at its worse it's nowhere near as bad as TW2 was at its best.
Even the "latency" problem you mentioned is nowhere near as bad as it was in almost any given moment playing TW2.
It's true that the controls of TW2 were worse (I actually tried playing TW2 a few days ago and it's horrible in comparison) but 1) that doesn't invalidate any complaints and 2) in TW2 there were no monsters one-shotting you because you didn't dodge in time. This is clearly the twitchiest of all Twitchers and if they want to go the full action route when it comes to combat (no problem with that) they ought to get the controls right.
 
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Excidium II

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Guess I got used to it, I just wish it worked in a way where geralt attacks "the air" instead of smart targeting things
 

Ismaul

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I wouldn't want to listen people whining about "bad keyboard controls" while playing Dark Souls or FIFA, neither.
Not sure why it should be particularly different for TW3.
If a game is released on a platform, it should work well for the default control input of that platform. Criticism is warranted if it doesn't.

Also, if you don't want to listen, don't. The fuck you doing here?
 
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Excidium II

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And I might be the only person that don't find the controller controls better. The UI gets clunky sometimes but is easier to navigate with a mouse (specially the inventory) and Geralt is about as akward to move with analog as he is with KB, I decided to go KBM after almost losing the race with ciri at the prologue :lol:
 

Prime Junta

Guest
I did notice the controls start to lag if the framerate drops, or something like that anyway. Was like playing drunk until I turned down some of the eye candy...
 

DeepOcean

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Even ignoring the percentage of bullshit in this post (I could play the same silly game attempting to describe Dark Souls as "Just keep your shield up and walk slowly, attack after blocking" and it would be true, if extremely reductive, for a good 80% of the standard enemies) nothing of what you are listening would define the core mechanics in this combat system as implicitly poor.

I already pointed some flaws with the overall balance and I would also agree that enemies would need some heavy addition to increase variety, but then again not a single one of these complaints would be about the core mechanics of combat.
Man, you are massively understating the problem, if CDPR "fixed" the combat balance and added a ton of new attack patterns/abilities to the enemies, I would see this becomming a decent combat system but that would be more of a revamp of the whole thing than just a balance pass and as that will never happen, there is no point on minimizing the combat flaws of the actual game that exists. About Dark Souls, yes, Dark Souls has 80% trash mobs but:

1) Those mobs are very often placed on strategic places to fuck you, that requires level design what unfortunately is mostly lacking on Witcher 3.
2) You waste stamina by rolling, heavier armors make you lose more stamina and nerf your roll and you have to level your stamina up meaning you can't roll around forever avoiding most enemies and win by easily outmaneuvering them.
3) On Dark Souls, most mobs have different attack patterns that can fuck you up bad and they are dangerous attacks that can get you even when you are used to them if you don't pay attention. Witcher 3 mobs follow a very simplistic attack pattern: a) their health bar turns red, they lunge at you, you hit them three times they jump back for a counter attack, b) If they are big, they are slow as fuck and they are mostly glorified punchbags, this makes them awfully predictable. Even when they use special abilities like poison, hypnotize and regeneration their abilities are inefective/easy as "my grandma with artritis could do it" to avoid.
4)On Dark souls, you can roll, parry and block. The only real way to protect yourself on Witcher 3 is dodge/roll, yeah... you can parry but good luck trying to attack the humans surrounding you and parrying strong monster attacks... yeah, good luck.
5)On Dark Souls, bosses have more than one simplistic attack pattern copy pasted.
6)On witcher 3, signs are hilarious broken, why risk missing a dodge to do 300 of damage if you can do 3000 damage a second with Igni, perma stun with instant kills with Aard, turn enemies on glorified punch bags with Yerdn and have IDDQD with Quen unless you have Parkinson disease? If that was end state Geralt, I would undertand, but you can do that shit by the time you end Velen.
 

ghostdog

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lol let's not even try compare DS combat with tw3 they are miles apart.
 
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treave

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And I might be the only person that don't find the controller controls better. The UI gets clunky sometimes but is easier to navigate with a mouse (specially the inventory) and Geralt is about as akward to move with analog as he is with KB, I decided to go KBM after almost losing the race with ciri at the prologue :lol:

I feel that controller is still marginally more responsive because of analog once you get used to it, though Geralt still moves like a drunk while indoors. KB&M is by and far the superior option for combat though, thanks to the badly done ring menu for selecting signs/items that controllers are stuck with (diagonal selections are very unresponsive), while you at least have the option for hotkeys with keyboard. A proper consolized control system would let you do combinations of LB/LT+X/Y/A/B for quick, uninterrupted access that doesn't break the flow of twitch combat.

So, yeah, the controls on a gamepad are average at best, and definitely no better than KB&M.
 

Eyestabber

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Play with a controller. It's a far better experience.
And that's coming from someone who hated playing TW2 with one and preferred M&KB by far.
Which leads to...
Also, somehow the controls got worse than the Witcher 2.
No, they really, really aren't.
You should go back and play both toe to toe to make it particularly obvious.

I have both games installed and I say the got worse, indeed. K&M was pretty responsive in TW2, but on 3 it feels really awkward. Also, changing to a gamepad only makes things suck less. Controls are still pretty clusterfuck, even with a gamepad.

As for TW3 combat, I will say it again: there is already a pretty good combat mod for TW2 (Rise of The Sword) and the modder community of that game was pretty small. TW3 is a HUGE success, and I'm sure modders will flock as soon as CDPR releases Redkit. Also, Dark Souls is a lot more popular and known, so the odds that someone will try to turn TW3 into DS2 are like 100%.

Are you lazy? Just spam Igni and win against everything except golems.
Just like in TW1, so :incline::incline:. Well, except for the golem part, because TW1 had ZERO enemies that you could not defeat with igni alone. And that includes Ifris (fire badger thing).

Also, one-button signs (with either keyboard or additional mouse buttons) worked fine in TW2, so why the fuck did they take a step back?!? And, NO, don't say "consoles", because TW2 was also a console game.
 

Carrion

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Well, except for the golem part, because TW1 had ZERO enemies that you could not defeat with igni alone. And that includes Ifris (fire badger thing).
Uh... The golem, at the swamp?

Also, one-button signs (with either keyboard or additional mouse buttons) worked fine in TW2, so why the fuck did they take a step back?!? And, NO, don't say "consoles", because TW2 was also a console game.
I've got to say I vastly prefer the TW1/TW3 system, first choosing an active sign and then always casting it with the same button. They probably could've included a toggle for those that wanted to use the TW2 system, though.

It was mentioned, yes, and I'll be amending it, but this is so fucking unintuitive that I don't even know where to start.
Yeah, it took me dozens of hours to realize that it was possible to use stuff from the inventory. With a mouse there's no apparent need to "select" any item from the inventory, because you simply drag and drop items to equip them, and the most natural way to use stuff would be right-clicking or double-clicking. Otherwise the inventory works quite well with just the mouse, though, better than in most multiplatform (A)RPGs that allow you to pick up a billion items, even though it would be nice to be able to sort your items a bit better.

The only real issues I have with TW3's controls are related to minor stuff, like Geralt needing to take that one walking step before he starts to run, which has lead to some unfortunate accidents like Geralt walking off a cliff while trying to loot a nearby corpse, and sometimes made it a bit cumbersome to find the proper item to interact with if the are multiple different items nearby. Walking instead of running helps a lot in such situations, but the basic movement is still less responsive than in TW2. Roach also has a nasty habit of getting stuck at everything and sometimes making weird turns unless you're looking straight ahead. Haven't had any real issues in combat where the controls really matter, though, (even learned to use Alt and Shift pretty quickly) and I certainly prefer the KBM controls to a controller because of the hotkeys alone. Just too bad that there are so few of them.
 

Eyestabber

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Uh... The golem, at the swamp?
Puzzle boss. Only took damage from the lightning storm. So it doesn't really count.
I've got to say I vastly prefer the TW1/TW3 system, first choosing an active sign and then always casting it with the same button. They probably could've included a toggle for those that wanted to use the TW2 system, though.
Actually, you could do just that in TW2. The game presents both options, which is great.
 

Angthoron

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Another not-rpgcodex-like review. Meh.
Okay, I'll lie about the next game I'll review to please the audience and fit their high standards.

Will that work?

No. But in-deph review with some nice orginal thoughts would be nice. This is standard review you can find at any game reviewing site.
Please share some original thoughts with me on the topic, then. I'd like to learn what an original thought is. So far your comments were typical "I wanted the review to match my tastes" comments that you could find accompanying any review, after all.
 

hivemind

Guest
You could have made the review entirely from character dialogue lines from the game.

That would have been unique.
 

Angthoron

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RPG games
No brofists for you...

Aw yes, finally someone noticed :lol:

Son of a bitch, so he is.

You could have made the review entirely from character dialogue lines from the game.

That would have been unique.

Yeah, or I could've made it in a form of a poem like my PoE review is going to be.
 

Captain Shrek

Guest
This is a really good review; not that I expected anything less from Angthoron.

The Witcher series has indeed been a neglected piece of gaming greatness, denied its rightful place in the halls of acclaimed RPGs. Especially its tone and its storytelling has been refreshingly distinct and contextually realistic ( ;) ) from the fan-pandering that others *cough* Bioware *cough* have been belching out. The review clearly points out where the strength of the game is and why that is so. Kudos!

However, Angthoron I would like to hear in more detail about what WOULD fix the combat to make it as good as the writing. Since this is quintessentially an ARPG, where would you consider the paragon of the underlying mechanics lie? That would certainly be a piece of welcome constructive criticism you could include in the review.
 

silvera

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I've seen better written adult flash games with more dialogue options, more triggers and richer consequences then in this cutscenes fairy tale.
 
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Gerrard

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Nov 5, 2007
Messages
12,830
>anyone complaining about cutscenes

Yeah, let's complain about an RPG having too much dialogue. Or should all of it just be 2 people standing next to each other and everything else happen off screen?
Fuck you.
 

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