Codex Review RPG Codex Review: Torment: Tides of Numenera

[agris]

this thread is too long, can i get a tl;dr and have my journal updated and quest compass polished on the best drama to come from it? a few people who liked Torment rage, there's a lot of analysis of PC's review while most people agree the game represents a massive waste of potential? Anything else?

 

[lightbane]

*reads review* Welp, that's a pity. Surely it can't be that ba-

Spoiler

The biggest let-down, however, is the writing. It is a potluck of disparate ingredients that fails to make a coherent whole, while at the same time going on and on endlessly about a single theme. It is wordy, loaded with unnecessary adjectives and reams of description, most of which is of things you can see on the screen right in front of you. It is not improved by thinly-disguised backer NPCs referencing Don Quixote or lecturing about alien sex, or constant wink-wink-nudge-nudge references to Planescape: Torment. Everybody has something to say, but you're given precious few reasons to listen. With a few exceptions, it is uninspiring, dull, lacking in tension or any of the mystery or wonder that was the driving force of its ostensible spiritual ancestor. The game gives away the plot in the introductory infodump, and one half-hearted plot twist aside, the eventual dénouement is utterly predictable, and its resolution approaches Mass Effect 3 levels of let-down. This is a combat game for players who hate combat; a skill game for people who hate to fail; a story game for people who measure story by word count.

Why are backer characters invariably bad? Undertale did well to hide its custom backer character into an area that can be easily missed (good call, said character is cringeworthy and barely fits with the setting).

Or hey, they could always sell DLC armour to console players. Guess that’ll work too.

That's all I need to know.

Now then, how long until the review's review? And the counter-review? And the counter-counter-review? Will this thread reach 100 pages in 3 days, or less?

 

[Zorba the Hutt]

From "Tier One Only" to... a teacher writing on his Wordpress blog. Sad!

 

[l3loodAngel]

From "Tier One Only" to... a teacher writing on his Wordpress blog. Sad!

Try to Roleplay a studio boss instead of a cast of, who is wandering aimlessly around the building.

 

[Zerth]

Although It breaks my heart that this was the outcome after several years of development and a comfortable budget; I had the impression that arrogance and complacency were one of several reasons why this game ended up like this.

Reminds me of Kickstarter campaign fiasco for that lukewarm attempt to inherit Megaman's legacy: Mighty No. 9. Big expectations were set and got far more than the 3 millions Inafune asked. Several times its release was delayed and the result was a complete joke on the backers's trust.

 

[Luckmann]

[...] Why are backer characters invariably bad? Undertale did well to hide its custom backer character into an area that can be easily missed (good call, said character is cringeworthy and barely fits with the setting). [...]

Hoooonestly, though, while I hate the idea of backer characters, I think that much like everything else in Torment, inXile does this hit and miss, and the swings with the backer characters are huge. I honestly did not notice that several backer characters were backer characters. Now, this is partly because of the content density and the "clickfest" nature of the game, going from spot-to-spot, interacting with shit that is completely self-contained, helping mask them, but for example the monk by the cliffs, I didn't think that the writing was stellar or anything, but it didn't stand out to me. The same goes for the alien scientist in the hall of whathever-they're-called-science-priests. While someone could argue that the character was cringy, I actually found it humorous, and it didn't feel at all out of place, but rather felt like contextually appropriate comic relief.

And there's probably many more that I missed. The RPGCodex one was shit, but that entire area is so shitty that it stands out more than it should've or could've.

So I feel like while there's tons of shit that Tides of Numenera should be criticized for, I don't feel like the backer NPC:s were actually badly done, and even if someone feels otherwise, they are certainly far from being worthy of hate. Even at worst, they're small turds in a sea of piss, I would argue, and not worthy of mention. Like Prime Junta mentioned in regards to his review, he could've made a laundry-list of issues, but chose to focus on some of the most glaring issues. Backer NPC:s are barely worthy of mention, whether you like them or not, when there's an endless amount of far worse offenses.

 

[existential_vacuum]

The RPGCodex one was shit

 

[l3loodAngel]

Ludo Lense so I watched the review. It was decent, however, I do not agree about the parts regarding the combat. A good combat would have improved the experience and would have taken the pressure of the narrative. Additionally, it would have made character progression fun and battles rewarding. The game has missed a lot by having a poor combat/character systems.

 

[Sizzle]

Hoooonestly, though, while I hate the idea of backer characters, I think that much like everything else in Torment, inXile does this hit and miss, and the swings with the backer characters are huge. I honestly did not notice that several backer characters were backer characters.

Yeah, me neither. Also, I'm not sure which KS approach is worse - Obsidian's with their gold-named backer NPCs that you can at least ignore (or murder with a certain soul-bound weapon) on purpose, or inXile's with their "backer NPCs disguised as regular NPCs".

Now, this is partly because of the content density and the "clickfest" nature of the game, going from spot-to-spot, interacting with shit that is completely self-contained, helping mask them, but for example the monk by the cliffs, I didn't think that the writing was stellar or anything, but it didn't stand out to me.

That guy reminded me of the stone dude from PS:T's Sensate Hall - not nearly as good, of course, but passable (and better than most of the other content in Sagus Cliffs).

The same goes for the alien scientist in the hall of whathever-they're-called-science-priests. While someone could argue that the character was cringy, I actually found it humorous, and it didn't feel at all out of place, but rather felt like contextually appropriate comic relief.

The sex scientist? Yup, he was oddly appropriate (as in - not just an artsy-fartsy random addition, but one that had at least some forethought and care put into designing him). I think he was written by MRY.

And there's probably many more that I missed. The RPGCodex one was shit, but that entire area is so shitty that it stands out more than it should've or could've.

What I dislike about the Codex one is that it's basically just an in-joke that only long-time members will get. For everyone else, it will be yet another lol, random NPC in a game that's packed with them.

 

[MRY]

No, he was written by Gavin.

 

[Sizzle]

No, he was written by Gavin.

Thanks. No idea why, but I was almost sure I read somewhere here that you had written him.

Anyway, sorry for the mix-up, and thanks again for the clarification.

 

[Skittles]

Low D&D is boring as fuck as well, but there's no accounting for taste I suppose. Boo hoo hoo... muh overpowered mages... boo hoo hoo...

You sound like a munchkin, buddy.

 

[YES!]

BTW, does anyone know where YES! got the idea that we all hated RPGs? Fargo showering him in cash?

Yeah, his outrage at the Codex and more specifically Codex "staff" is fucking bizarre. It's borderline personal, like he worked on the game or something.

Wouldn't it be nice if an rpg site had people on staff that actually liked rpgs?

Cause you know, the Top 70 RPG list doesn't mean shit if T:ToN isn't on there. Nor are we allowed to measure it against it's spiritual predecessor, which is #1 on that list.

No. It is automatically immune from criticism, because Nintendo and Friends™ exist.

1) You guys distain for actual rpgs is my indicator you dislike rpgs. Compare posts about the release of rpgs to posts about the release of Asian games or console games. If this isn't apparent to you then you are the target audience for this review.

2) The top 70 list means little when the above point is relevant and topical now. If you were an adult or not retarded you would understand points and arguments. Me trying to be reasonable with you is futile.

 

[YES!]

I support crpgs to get crpgs. Is Torment a shitty crpg? No, certainly not. If you remove all the drama and retard talking points its a decent game. I'm not saying no one should hate. I hated the last "D&D" game that came out, but that was based on it not being 5.0 even a little. It was a game with a completely made up system based in a D&D realm. They advertised it as 5.0. Objectively, if I were to rate this game I fucking hate with a passion I would have to do so based on the game's merit and mechanics as unbiased as I possibly could. Sure, I would certainly add in the review about it not being even a little 5.0 but how much does this matter to say the majority of user's of this site? They don't even like real rpgs, nevermind know what the mechanics of a P&P system are. They just want to know how fancy the graphics are, is it super hip and happening with tons of people watching other people playing it on some website for fucking retarded fuckheads, and if it isn't coming out for console does it have, like, real good controller support?

SCL is a $99 netbook

T:ToN is a $499 laptop smeared in shit that constantly plays a track of Fargo laughing even with the volume off

They are both bad, but they are different kinds of bad.

I would love to hear you explain why both are bad with your own words and points.

 

[YES!]

You pieces of shit disgust me. This site, that used to be 100% in line with the promotion of rpgs that aren't just mindless superficial bullshit slightly interactive movies is now the enemy of real rpgs. You're all fucking brainless morons. This interview perfectly suits you all and this site. Just a biased drama piece focused on bullshit far more than content written by a fucking pompous shill that doesn't even really like rpgs. This is the state of this site. Just children and really fucking stupid people making no sense and happy about it as long as the hivemind of retards all love and hate the same shit. No normal person cares about what actors do or have to say - and this site is like one of those shows about celebrities where people give way too much attention to the personally lives of developers. Normal people don't give a shit about people who make our entertainment. We want the entertainment and not the fucking scoop on who is fucking who or who is saying what. You guys are fucking weird and need to relax on that shit. Put the focus back on good games worth playing that are rpgs in more than just the most superficial way and the most superficial of emchanics. Grow the fuck up you silly bitches.

But why would you support shitty games to get good games? That's not how it works.

I support crpgs to get crpgs. Is Torment a shitty crpg? No, certainly not. If you remove all the drama and retard talking points its a decent game. I'm not saying no one should hate. I hated the last "D&D" game that came out, but that was based on it not being 5.0 even a little. It was a game with a completely made up system based in a D&D realm. They advertised it as 5.0. Objectively, if I were to rate this game I fucking hate with a passion I would have to do so based on the game's merit and mechanics as unbiased as I possibly could. Sure, I would certainly add in the review about it not being even a little 5.0 but how much does this matter to say the majority of user's of this site? They don't even like real rpgs, nevermind know what the mechanics of a P&P system are. They just want to know how fancy the graphics are, is it super hip and happening with tons of people watching other people playing it on some website for fucking retarded fuckheads, and if it isn't coming out for console does it have, like, real good controller support?

Here's a novel idea, why not restrict your flow of money only to those games that are genuine incline? Do you want more crpgs for the sake of crpgs or do you want more good crpgs that are good video games?

This is the same argument people made against me defending Troika. I want more crpgs. People can whine about Bethesda and Bioware games but they still sell well enough to make more and more and more.

We had such a drought of actual rpgs because of people like you short sited nincompoops. Sure, Troika released games with a good amount of bugs. Sure, Troika made a game that was too complex for the average idiot who thinks they like rpgs to understand and be successful at. Sure, Troika had the audacity to release a game with full party creation outside of the 80s and 90s. Sure, Troika has its faults, but being a whiny bitch having hissy fits about there games and being huge dicks caused them to close.

I also defended DW Bardley's games from you hate mongers who want there to be another rpg drought even though I didn't care too much for W&W or DL. As well as others.

But fake rpg fans like you fucking retarded sycophants can never see the forest through the tree. And in 15 years when this community pretends to claim it likes rpgs still, and puts TToN on the list of top 70 or whatever, and idiots are attacking whatever new actual rpgs being made, I will be defending them while a different group of hate mongering retards that don't actually like rpgs are attacking them. Why? Because I like rpgs and want more to be made - good, bad, and ugly. It doesn't matter if I love them or even dislike them - I mainly dislike PST and all the IE games. They mechanics in all of them are not good. The combat is awful and way, way too easy. The character development is non-existent. I think they are bad games. But the certainly nare rpgs and I would rather have more rpgs than less. The more that are made the greater chance I will like some of them.

My idea of what is good (or incline in retard speak) is not the same as children who dislike rpgs. You guys idea of incline is shitty console games and Asian games with super lite rpg elements. That is great and all. You guys think you can strengthen shit buy weakening the good. It doesn't work that way. Either you like rpgs or you don't. And you guys don't.

 

[Fenix]

Saw this paste, mocking at some kind of game, maybe even at TToN.

Russian variant

Spoiler

Сеттинг является кислотной смесью подземелий кремля, неверхуда, краша тим рейсинг, метал гир солида, столбов и тони хок проскейтер 2, ГГ является многомерным додекаэдром, который при помощи блинка перемещается по локациям. Локации - город из соли, город из зубного камня, город из печени трески, город из марки лсд, город из города и город из многократно увеличенного под микроскопом кишечнополостного червя. Сюжет таков - додекаэдр пытается развоплотить свои бесконечно многогранные сущности в многомерном планарном мире далекого прошлого будущего и настоящего одновременно, где отражения нпц является всего лишь забытыми отголосками древних технологий таинственной расы поклонявшейся таинственному богу. По ходу сюжета к додекаэдру присоединяются марк твен, пачка табака, кружка меняющая свой цвет от температуры воды внутри нее и подушечка снюса. Сопартийцев можно романсить, бои урезаны до простых камень-ножницы-бумага, где рандомно появляется результат каждого раунда. Если быстро нажимать пробел в течение трех секунд, то вероятность успеха увеличивается, что позволит развить успех вплоть до критического с победой в первом раунде. Враги - клин диких гусей выстроившихся свастикой, эмблема ирландской освободительной армии, профессор из Гарварда, стратегия и семечко лотоса. В процессе своих сомнамбулических поисков додекаэдр осознает себя, как геометрическую фигуру и начинает изменяться по своему желанию, при этом локации инвертируются и действия игрока становятся прямо противоположными, можно отматывать время назад, что позволит понять, что ничего новоого это не дает. В какой-то момент сюжет прекращает развиваться и ключевой нпц для продолжения появляется только тогда, когда игрок наберет в игре суммарно 40 часов геймплея. Этот же нпц рассказывает, что вы всего лишь медвежье озеро в канаде, которое видит сны Аризоны. Главный злодей - сам ГГ, поэтому для успешного боссфайта нужно самоубиться и не загружаться после окна поражения.

The setting is an acidic mixture of the Dungeons of the Kremlin, Neverhood, Crash Team Racing, Metal Gear Solid, Pillars and Tony Hawk Pro Skater 2, main hero is a multi-dimensional dodecahedron, that uses blink to move to locations. Location - city [made] from salt, city from dental calculus, city from the liver of cod, city from LSD stamp, the city from city and the city from magnified under a microscope coelenterates worms. The plot is this: a dodecahedron trying to unmade its infinitely multi-faceted entity in the multidimensional planar world of the past present and future simultaneously, where the reflection of NPC is just forgotten remnants of ancient technology of the mysterious race worshiped a mysterious God. In the plot, the NPC that joins dodecahedron are: Mark Twain, a pack of tobacco, the mug that changes color according to the temperature of the water inside it and the pad of snus. Party members can be romanced, the fighting is reduced to a simple rock-scissors-paper, where the result appears randomly each round. If you rapidly tap the spacebar for three seconds, then the probability of success increases, which will allow to develop success until a critical victory in the first round. Enemies are - a wedge of wild geese lined up a swastika, emblem of the Irish liberation army, Harvard professor, strategy and Lotus seed. In his somnambulistic search dodecahedron became selfaware of itself as a geometrical figure and begins to change at will, with locations are inverted and the player's actions become the opposite, you can rewind time back, which will allow to understand that this does add nothing new. At some point the story ceases to evolve and a key NPC only appears when a player earns in the game a total of 40 hours of gameplay. The same NPC says that you are only Bear Lake in Canada, which sees the dreams of Arizona. The main villain is a main hero itself, so in order to win boss fight need suicide and don't reload after that.

 

[Valky]

You pieces of shit disgust me. This site, that used to be 100% in line with the promotion of rpgs that aren't just mindless superficial bullshit slightly interactive movies is now the enemy of real rpgs. You're all fucking brainless morons. This interview perfectly suits you all and this site. Just a biased drama piece focused on bullshit far more than content written by a fucking pompous shill that doesn't even really like rpgs. This is the state of this site. Just children and really fucking stupid people making no sense and happy about it as long as the hivemind of retards all love and hate the same shit. No normal person cares about what actors do or have to say - and this site is like one of those shows about celebrities where people give way too much attention to the personally lives of developers. Normal people don't give a shit about people who make our entertainment. We want the entertainment and not the fucking scoop on who is fucking who or who is saying what. You guys are fucking weird and need to relax on that shit. Put the focus back on good games worth playing that are rpgs in more than just the most superficial way and the most superficial of emchanics. Grow the fuck up you silly bitches.

But why would you support shitty games to get good games? That's not how it works.

I support crpgs to get crpgs. Is Torment a shitty crpg? No, certainly not. If you remove all the drama and retard talking points its a decent game. I'm not saying no one should hate. I hated the last "D&D" game that came out, but that was based on it not being 5.0 even a little. It was a game with a completely made up system based in a D&D realm. They advertised it as 5.0. Objectively, if I were to rate this game I fucking hate with a passion I would have to do so based on the game's merit and mechanics as unbiased as I possibly could. Sure, I would certainly add in the review about it not being even a little 5.0 but how much does this matter to say the majority of user's of this site? They don't even like real rpgs, nevermind know what the mechanics of a P&P system are. They just want to know how fancy the graphics are, is it super hip and happening with tons of people watching other people playing it on some website for fucking retarded fuckheads, and if it isn't coming out for console does it have, like, real good controller support?

Here's a novel idea, why not restrict your flow of money only to those games that are genuine incline? Do you want more crpgs for the sake of crpgs or do you want more good crpgs that are good video games?

This is the same argument people made against me defending Troika. I want more crpgs. People can whine about Bethesda and Bioware games but they still sell well enough to make more and more and more.

We had such a drought of actual rpgs because of people like you short sited nincompoops. Sure, Troika released games with a good amount of bugs. Sure, Troika made a game that was too complex for the average idiot who thinks they like rpgs to understand and be successful at. Sure, Troika had the audacity to release a game with full party creation outside of the 80s and 90s. Sure, Troika has its faults, but being a whiny bitch having hissy fits about there games and being huge dicks caused them to close.

I also defended DW Bardley's games from you hate mongers who want there to be another rpg drought even though I didn't care too much for W&W or DL. As well as others.

But fake rpg fans like you fucking retarded sycophants can never see the forest through the tree. And in 15 years when this community pretends to claim it likes rpgs still, and puts TToN on the list of top 70 or whatever, and idiots are attacking whatever new actual rpgs being made, I will be defending them while a different group of hate mongering retards that don't actually like rpgs are attacking them. Why? Because I like rpgs and want more to be made - good, bad, and ugly. It doesn't matter if I love them or even dislike them - I mainly dislike PST and all the IE games. They mechanics in all of them are not good. The combat is awful and way, way too easy. The character development is non-existent. I think they are bad games. But the certainly nare rpgs and I would rather have more rpgs than less. The more that are made the greater chance I will like some of them.

My idea of what is good (or incline in retard speak) is not the same as children who dislike rpgs. You guys idea of incline is shitty console games and Asian games with super lite rpg elements. That is great and all. You guys think you can strengthen shit buy weakening the good. It doesn't work that way. Either you like rpgs or you don't. And you guys don't.

I don't eat out at Mc Donalds daily because I want more burgers in the world. Same reason I don't buy shitty RPGs just so more RPGs are made. Also RPGCodex is one person.

 

[Iznaliu]

Is this the best PoEtards have to offer? Is this all? Give me some real challenge.

Why give you real challenge when you won't appreciate it?

 

[YES!]

I don't eat out at Mc Donalds daily because I want more burgers in the world. Same reason I don't buy shitty RPGs just so more RPGs are made. Also RPGCodex is one person.

Burgers aren't rare and have never died out beyond a couple indie burgers every couple of years. For about 12 years there wasn't shit for people who liked rpgs. Your analogy is about as sensible and smart as this review. I highly doubt you could articulate in your own words why this game is shitty with an actual coherent point that isn't just a bunch of platitudes from stupids for stupids.

What is your specific take on this game in your words why it is bad?

 

[DeepOcean]

There is no genius. There is only luck.

No, genius or overwhelming talent aren't required or even luck, talent and genius is what is required for a Tolstoi or Dostoevsky, that is a whole other level. You don't need talent to be an average, decent writer, if you fucking employ some effort you will be even a better than average writer. I will tell you, you didn't need a Dostoevsky writing for this game for it be good, just a decent writer that understood some basic things.

If you, as a writer, think Deus Ex Machinas, no context exposition overload, flashback abuse, convenient NPC serial fetch questing, complete lack of characterization, complete disregard for player motivation are okay, maybe your problem isn't lack of talent but maybe that you are on the wrong job.

 

[Azrael the cat]

Azrael the cat OT, but what would it take to get you to write a KOTOR2 retrospective review?

In honesty, I'd love to, but if I was to say that I was going to do it right now, it would be a recipe for never-ending 'it will be finished next week, I promise' x 1000. I'm not likely to get a chance to do something like that until around July or so.

 

[Azrael the cat]

In honesty...yes. I can't promise that it's gone from shit to gold - you could very well end up hating the game all over again. But it's a massively different game now, to the extent that prior knowledge of the 1.0 combat mechanics can directly fuck you up due to attributes affecting different stats altogether, the class-attribute relationships being different...it's still the same bones, but the rules are very different.

It has not gone from shit to gold, they just put some golden paint on the shit and called it a day.

I can only use FO vs WL 2 example. After you set up the systems there is just so much you can do. They tried to improve shit in WL2, but that didin't change much, while in FO/FO2 even rat battles were decent due to systems and progression, while WL2 even large battles were uninteresting.

The main reason is that once you have a system, the devs make a number of decisions based on that system like: the number of enemies/decide their weapons, stats, position/ make decisions on the map,area size and obejects within the area (not to mention changes required for PC/NPC equipment and that means changing drops and quest rewards, or even item abilities). It can be analytically seen that changing systems after the release is a nightmare. In reality that means that the game is stuck with the system/systems it was built upon. However, this might not be the case with Numenera as there are too few battles, but most games with a shitty system/systems are dead on arrival.
Now if you want to change you have to at least revise everything, so it becomes either impossible or not viable financially if the changes are meaningful. If for example devs change one variable like "reduce unarmed attack damage" an unarmed boss may become a non-factor. If during the combat system revision the designers increase the power of unarmed attacks/walking distance the boss fight might become unwinnable. So devs have to go through every encounter after serious changes.

Only then the game difficulty will be just right. If its too easy/hard few people will enjoy it.

Yeah, but the changes in PoE 3.0+ are very different to the WL2 differences, quantitatively and qualitatively.

WL2 fine-tuned some balance issues, changed how armour v laser weapons worked, and made massive alterations to encounter design. Changes to the actual rule system were fairly minor. E.g. the same attributes still affect the same things.

PoE 3.0 changes go all the way down to basic attributes. 'Stats that boosted dodge now boost accuracy' kind of alteration. Again, not saying that it's necessarily going to make the game good if you hated it (though for me it was enough to turn it from 'shit' to 'pretty good'), but it's a remarkably different ruleset. I can't think of any comparably massive alteration.

If PoE 3.0 was a sequel to PoE 1.0, it would still be a massive alteration to the rules. It's not fine-tuning balance, it's completely changing the stat/attribute/class rules.

WL2 Directors Cut did far more to improve the engine and encounter design than PoE 3.0. If you're expecting that type of alteration, you'll be disappointed. PoE 3.0 does improve encounter design somewhat (mostly by changing the resistances to take out a lot of cheese, and make optional dragon fights much harder) and adds a fuckload of quest content (eg stronghold quest chain that leads to army v army battle using the factions you've allied with + mercenaries purchased, etc). But most of the important changes are to the fundamental system rules, not the engine or encounter philosophy.

 

[DeepOcean]

I love reading reviews on the Codex--it's practically its own form of entertainment lol. As far as the review goes, let's remember it's just the review of one member; many of the comments below it (on the Codex) disagree with the review and some even call it a 'bad/whiny review'.

I sense an "Emperor has no clothes!" moment here. All those idiots describing all the amazing features that NumaNuma doesn't have and giving it a 9.0 and the codex being the annoying child that say the truth. Double funny is that when we like a game the tards hate, it is "LOL, nostalgia!", when we hate a game the tards pretend to like it is "LOL, nostalgia!". They need to decide, or we like old games because they are old school games or we hate them because they are old school.

Man, I dunno why I'm wasting my time working honestly, when there are those types around that beg someone to sell them real estate on the moon.

 

[Lurker King]

No, genius or overwhelming talent aren't required or even luck, talent and genius is what is required for a Tolstoy or Dostoevsky, which is a whole other level. You don't need talent to be an average, decent writer, if you fucking employ some effort you will be even a better than average writer. I will tell you, you didn't need a Dostoevsky writing for this game for it be good, just a decent writer that understood some basic things.

You are comparing apples and oranges. I’m sure that Tolstoy would be a shit game writer, because being a good novelist and a good game writer are different activities, and each requires a different set of skills. Thus, they have their own standards of evaluation and we can't judge one activity based on the other. Besides, it’s harder to be a good game writer due to the cooperative nature of your work. A novelist relies only on his own experiences, but a game writer has time constraints, development budget, engine limitations, level designers, artists, etc. In a sense, a game writer can be a genius in his expertise, but deliver mediocre work because his team fucked up.

I sense an "Emperor has no clothes!" moment here. All those idiots describing all the amazing features that NumaNuma doesn't have and giving it a 9.0 and the codex being the annoying child that say the truth.

The irony is that the emperor never had any clothers, yet most people here still believed in him. I still think that if Fargo hadn't cancelled the gamescom interview, a bunch of people here would rationalize the game's faults.

 

[Roguey]

What difference does it make how perfect an adaptation it is?

A module with lousy encounters becomes a crpg with lousy encounters, moreso since Troika didn't have time to do all the fancy scripting the module suggests (e.g. people hearing fights and joining in, unkilled creatures on a floor all going to a particular location and fortifying themselves if you backtrack to rest before wiping them all out)

Are you a huge fan of Dragon Age infinite-wave trash mob clone filler combat or do you just hate ToEE combat that much?

I didn't hate it, but there weren't enough bright spots to excuse the dull.

If you really are a Dragon Age fan then it makes me wonder if all PoE lovers are. Maybe that's the difference. I can imagine the ad copy, "If you liked Dragon Age then you'll love Pillars" etc. Maybe Pillars was the Baldurs Gate for Dragon Age fans. I think a lot of the reasons I hated PoE combat were similar to the reasons I hated Dragon Age combat so there might be something to that. Or maybe Pillars would have been pitched to publishers as Dragon Age for WoW players.

Obsidian was going after the Bioware audience, sure. However Pillars has far more No cold of coning everything ftw (well, not after they added immunities and removed low level per-rest spells becoming per-encounter to ease up on the slicken spam).

the ice giant area to fight the ice giants

I have fond memories of that area because it dumps you right into the middle of the dungeon with no way out and no clue where the designated rest spot is. Now there's some good tension.