Review RPG Codex Review: Tyranny - You'd Think An Overlord Could Keep It Up

[Sannom]

I find it funny and extremely American that the most well-defined law in the Empire of the Evil Overlord of Evil is the one that shows that she is not in favor of free trade.

 

[pomenitul]

Yes, but they can be hardly blamed in this case for being so obsessed with their STATEMENT that they don't just tell a 'good yarn'. The whole problem is that the second half of the game is a 'bad yarn', and the first half doesn't even really feature any overt STATEMENT.

If you want to advance a general theory about millennial vidya writers growing up on Mass Effect wanting to shoehorn their politics and their cinematic/literary dreams into a video game, fine, there's plenty of cases where that's clearly true. I'm not sure that applies to Tyranny.

Let him have his bone, he needs to pick it now lest withdrawal consume him. Political idée fixes are the harshest of taskmistresses.

 

[RK47]

 

[duanth123]

I'm not sure that applies to Tyranny.

I think if we locked you in a room for a few hours with some of the people responsible for this "game", you'd reconsider such generosity.

Reality is much worse than what you hesitate to assume, especially where the vast majority of human beings, my fellow americunts (of whom generally Obsidian staff would class) included, are defined most by the subconscious beliefs they're not even aware they possess, yet which all too strictly comprise the outer bounds of their creativity and reason.

Meaning, I honestly think Obsidian does not realizes they wrote a bad game. Except for maybe a resigned JES.

No intentional shoehorning involved; just a childlike inability (certainly groomed by 21st century culture) to disassociate perhaps what they see, hear, are told by others, from their own intellectual muse.

Edit:

"It was Aliens" x 1
Infinitron

 

[RK47]

'steve, do u think our online sale website design is terrible?'
'oh.. no..I think the locals are just too dumb to understand online shopping lah.'

 

[Tigranes]

I'm not sure that applies to Tyranny.

I think if we locked you in a room for a few hours with some of the people responsible for this "game", you'd reconsider such generosity.

Reality is much worse than what you hesitate to assume, especially where the vast majority of human beings, my fellow americunts (of whom generally Obsidian staff would class) included, are defined most by the subconscious beliefs they're not even aware they possess, yet which all too strictly comprise the outer bounds of their creativity and reason.

Meaning, I honestly don't think Obsidian realizes they wrote a bad game. Except for maybe a resigned JES.

No intentional shoehorning involved; just a childlike inability (certainly groomed by 21st century culture) to disassociate perhaps what they see, hear, are told by others, from their own intellectual muse.

In summary: "trust me, my theories about exactly how they are terrible is completely right."

As usual, I prefer to ascribe to incompetence until it's proven to be incompetence AND some other retardation.

 

[duanth123]

I'm not sure that applies to Tyranny.

I think if we locked you in a room for a few hours with some of the people responsible for this "game", you'd reconsider such generosity.

Reality is much worse than what you hesitate to assume, especially where the vast majority of human beings, my fellow americunts (of whom generally Obsidian staff would class) included, are defined most by the subconscious beliefs they're not even aware they possess, yet which all too strictly comprise the outer bounds of their creativity and reason.

Meaning, I honestly don't think Obsidian realizes they wrote a bad game. Except for maybe a resigned JES.

No intentional shoehorning involved; just a childlike inability (certainly groomed by 21st century culture) to disassociate perhaps what they see, hear, are told by others, from their own intellectual muse.

In summary: "trust me, my theories about exactly how they are terrible is completely right."

As usual, I prefer to ascribe to incompetence until it's proven to be incompetence AND some other retardation.

Had to abort that last post.

Anyway, they're not theories Tigranes.

Have you ever spent time around people? Around people who live the lifestyle of those who helped make this game? Like, people who know how Twitter works? And actually use it? Around Americans? Around people who haven't wasted their life on a website arguing these issues? AROUND PEOPLE WHO CITE FALLOUT 3 RAIDERS AS A CREATIVE REFERENCE?! *gasps*

I have. Alot.

Do you really think there's some inscrutable relationship between the shit a person regularly shovels into their mind and what might then dance out of their fingers onto a design doc?

You approach the issue like some staid researcher hesitant to embrace even the basic realities that society teaches an individual.

And all I want to fucking know is in how many years you think it will take for this game to become a cult classic.

 

[Tigranes]

No, sorry, I spend my entire life on the Codex and I know nothing about radical Marxist-feminists or gender politics or Judith Butler or Black Lives Matter or humanities graduates or anything and I totally know nothing about Obsidian no sirree, but I'm sure your time in the White House has taught you much.

"And all I want to fucking know is in how many years you think it will take for this game to become a cult classic."

Apparently, it hasn't taught you to read. Here, I'll help you, that's somebody else's review you're reading.

 

[duanth123]

It's called the banality of evil, Tigranes.

They don't have to be walking caricatures.

They just have to be mediocre humans unqualified for the job some even more unqualified bastard gifted them.

...

I'm sorry if I triggered you.

Such that you had to mention the white house.

 

[Tigranes]

Here you go, buddy

http://www.rpgcodex.net/content.php?id=10501

Review by Tigranes

Tyranny features a highly promising Act I that soon gives way to a mediocre waste of time, as a potentially unique take on the grand fantasy trope of good vs. evil devolves into a generic power fantasy.

Tyranny will never rank amongst Obsidian's best games, and is worth a significantly discounted purchase at best. When it does get it right, it shows you how marvellous it could have been - and then you walk away from yet another cooldown trash mob fight, shaking your head.

 

[duanth123]

Here you go, buddy

http://www.rpgcodex.net/content.php?id=10501

"buddy", the passive-aggressive man's sternest retort. Befitting of an (ex-?) Obsidian mod.

When it does get it right, it shows you how marvellous it could have been

Get my actual point through your head, Tigranes. There is no "could have been."

The talent is gone. The ability is gone.

And no amount of "lol, Trump supporter" or whatever that nonsense about BLM and the White House was will change things.

I am very impressed that you wrote a decent review, however, as you seem to think I can't understand that.[/QUOTE]

 

[Infinitron]

There is no "could have been."

But he liked the first act. Act 1 design multiplied three times = better game = could have been.

 

[duanth123]

There is no "could have been."

But he liked the first act. Act 1 multiplied three times = better game = could have been.

And I'm saying that, even were you to consider Act I meritable, it is not representative of nu-Obisdian's current ability, either:

a) because it was in fact totally derivative of some of their many previous cancelled or unproduced efforts; or

b) because Obsidian totally fails at executing certain potentially interesting ideas throughout the large remainder of an already short game.

Where b) is entirely symptomatic of and equally consistent with, if we're all going to theorize, a studio currently lacking the appropriate talent.

I'm not disagreeing with Tigranes in that I don't think they've fully jumped the shark ala Beamdog's "look at my transgender character!1" Which is why I originally considered the possibility that the game was not an entirely bad faith effort. By some moustache-twirling SJW.

I honestly think Obsidian does not realize they wrote a bad game

Edited to clarify my meaning

 

[Infinitron]

I'm actually on board with the idea that Obsidian need better/more experienced talent, but your choice of language - "wrote a bad game" - suggests to me that your idea of what good RPG design and development consist of is incorrect (and thus your understanding of how to address Obsidian's situation).

 

[Sannom]

Why did that guy have to cheat to get into that specific configuration? Couldn't he find another encounter to make his point?

 

[Infinitron]

"That guy" is RK47.

 

[DeepOcean]

I would like to comment on three things:

1) There are conflicting narrative frames that the designers tried hard tying together but failed at.
2) There is a surprising fear of emotion and a desire to keep things sterile
3) The desire to make all sides have a good justification for what they do

1 - The two narratives that are in conflict is the traditional hero's journey and the overarching web of political decisions you are supposedly to make. They needed to give to the player the traditional RPG experience so they tought they needed a hero's journey kind of affair with you killing dudes on exciting adventures and gaining levels while at the same time you were inserted on the great scheme of things making swiping political decisions. The framework they created needed to allow both or otherwise the game would be just a traditional trash mob murdering simulator RPG or a King of the Dragon Pass kind of decision game. They didn't manage to mesh the two well together and the hero's journey one ended winning but as the gameplay didn't support their generic hero fantasy that was for the game detriment as the best aspect of the game (the political decisions and their consequences) ended losing.

2 - You don't need melodrama like on Mass Effect games, actually melodrama is just a way of faking emotions, but you kinda need some emotion involved on the decisions you are making for you get involved. At one point, the Chorus and the Disfavored were bickering what to do about a village but you were pretty detached from the whole situation as there was no proper context or build up leading to the choice on what was happening and the villagers were just abstract props, same as the rebels that are abstract props, the factions are abstract props too. They tried adding some personality with faction specific characters but one is a psychopath and another an empty headed zealot, kinda hard to generate empathy towards them.

Maybe it was the design decision to pull the BIG decision right after the end of the first act to supposedly have a stronger opening the culprit but it is kinda hard to care about decisions without enough context and build up to them. The chorus, the Disfavord and the rebels just all blend together and you can't know why you are going to pick each one by the time the decision is made.

3 - Maybe if they delayed the decision a bit and shown cleary the clear moral choice was to abandon Kyros but making it clear that doing it so was suicide would cause a much bigger effect, you know, if you allied yourself to the rebels but on the end all the hope was futile and everybody dies because you offered a fake hope on a futile rebelion when the right thing was to be a coward and submit with the game ending with Tunon reading an Edict to punish you, maybe even the rebels betraying you and delivering you to Tunon as a surrender gesture. That would be more fitting to a world where evil won. But they were afraid and just did the opposite, made being on Kyros side looked cool and not hard at all and they gone full Dragon Ball fantasy in the end.

 

[Azeot]

I restarted the game a couple times, finished the first act once, but got bored with the game early into Act 2 and stopped playing. Never gave it much thought on why I got bored, but I guess this review might have a point. Shit nosedives.

 

[RK47]

I still don't understand why they have to do that CYOA at the start instead of building a game around it. Taking part in the siege of Stalwart, conquering Apex, meeting Sirin and Barik during the Edict of Storms sounded more interesting than dealing with the aftermath of CYOA. I rather have that than 'shit happens during CYOA, here's some free Favor / Wrath for you' they kept highlighting in Act 1.

It's not fun, it's not interesting and it's awkward.

 

[Lurker King]

I still don't understand why they have to do that CYOA at the start instead of building a game around it.

Because it's hugely expensive, most people wouldn't notice the missed choices and Obsidian only want slam dunks. If they tried to spread the reactivity from the first act in the rest of the game, it would be too thin and barely noticeable. The choices in the first act are a trick, really. They only bothered to implement a few choices to impress game journos.

 

[Konjad]

I already got bored in the first act. If the rest of the game is even worse, then time to uninstall it, I guess.

 

[duanth123]

I'm actually on board with the idea that Obsidian need better/more experienced talent, but your choice of language - "wrote a bad game" - suggests to me that your idea of what good RPG design and development consist of is incorrect (and thus your understanding of how to address Obsidian's situation).

I'm not interested in devising some "correct" rehab plan like they're my crack-addicted relative.

I just want to reiterate my boredom with posters constantly spinning convenient excuses for Obsidian (which is somewhat obnoxious even in legitimate cases as with smaller games like AoD or Underrail) or giving them the benefit of the doubt that the wonderful, amazing game they're apparently STILL so capable of producing was somehow only tragically and through some complicated misstep or rpg designwork (it's srs business, as you know) dashed against the rocks.

Rather than perhaps something much simpler, more fundamental.

For some reason, whole conversation reminds me of this:

 

[Invictus]

While I don't think Tyranny is a bad game, I can say that I enjoyed it, I don't think it is perfect either but somehow implying that Obsidian (or even Beamdog for that matter) did a "bad" game on purpose is ludicrous; nobody consciously sets out to do "shitty games".

I agree that this generation of videogame programmers, writers and artists have got a shit deal because their influences are more akin to Skyrim than to Darklands but even if Fergus has always been a doddering idiot and most of the talent that produced the only truly excellent Obsidian games (Kotor 2, Fallout New Vegas, Mask of the Betrayer) is long gone (save Sawyer who I am beginning to appreciate more) I dont think anybody looked at Tyranny and said "yeah just release the thing so Paradox doesn't throw a fit"

I would say that Obsidian is like pretty much any other business and if they could get a Skyrim or GTA of their own they would do it; I am beginning to think that Fergus thinks HE is really the brains of the operation and that it doesnt matter if George Zeits, Avellone or countless other leave since he is still the top dog there and can find writers and directors to replace them
When I was younger I worked in advertising and that was the general feeling; you have your head dogs who are supposed to be the source of creativity, a couple of talented designers and copywriters and a whole lot of cannon fodder to do the heavy lifting.
The head dogs let the hired hands do the work with the promises of advancement and riches (all that glitzy advertising nonsense with models and parties) but they feel that those working hands are in the end replaceable becuase the true creativity comes from the higher ups...

This is what happened to Obsidian; all that "auteur" bullshit is gone, they tried and they were almost dead because of it when Project Eternity saved their asses... now they dont want to be hired hands and put creativity in a second step behind profitability and in a sense I understand them
For all the Fargo haters he understands both sides of the equation better than almost anyone; he wants a profitable game but knows that big names like Avellone and Zeitz not only deliver actually better writing but give his projects The credibility that Fergus thinks that "Done by Obsidian" gives his products...
Hell even the name harkens to Black Isle ffs, that guy lives off the reputation of things he supposedly supervised 20 years ago ffs

 

[Tigranes]

duanth123 Now that I think I know your actual points rather than the lulz, and now that I know you're not actually talking to Prime Junta: I totally agree that Act 1 does not represent nu-Obsidian's ability. If anything, the game as a whole does, and most of the game is shit. It would be desperate excuse-making to say "but hey Act 1 was so good that shows nu-Obs can write great just you wait!". (That would require, at least, Act 1 to be Torment-level good, whereas it is merely decent.)

As clear as I can put it, the lesson I take from Tyranny is that (1) nu-Obs has now written two original IP CRPGs; they have yet to show that they can reach the heights of old-Obs in writing. (2) Tyranny is an especially disappointing effort overall, one which forces rational observers to be very pessimistic about their future output - of course they could push on from here and build a new signature style post-Avellone, but we have to judge on existing evidence and Tyranny just added a whole lot of downward-pointing evidence.

The only thing that I don't care for is the armchair theories about how nu-Obs is fucked because their new writers are English Lit grads who post about race relations on Twitter and want to shove their vaginapolitik into video games or whatever, because either I missed nu-Obs writers spewing about that in or out of their games, or there isn't any. Hence: the hypothesis remains more simple incompetence, until proven otherwise. (I don't see why 'they are incompetent and signs aren't good' is 'excuse-making' either...)

 

[agris]

Tigranes good review, you write well and communicated your conclusions and the reasons for them clearly. I haven't played Tyranny myself, but I can't help but think that "interesting quests - meaningful itemization - well designed combat encounters" are three things that RPGs need to get two of right to be compelling. Sounds like tyranny dropped the ball on two out of three in act 1, and on all of them past it.

Sensuki your analysis of Tyranny's development is compelling (although I tend to agree with Tigranes, it isn't fruitful to assert malicious intent when simple incompetence and inexperience adequately describe the results, in lieu of evidence contrary), but simultaneously pointless as you debate with Roguey. It is not interested in discussion or illumination of concepts, but rather rote rhetorical exercises that elevate its ego while simultaneously debasing readers' understanding of the topic at hand. Its agenda is to misinform and obfuscate under the guise of pseudo-intellectualism, and is a form of mentally-cancerous trolling.

 

[The_Sloth_Sleeps]

Enjoyed the review.

Tyranny had me shaking with rage, I couldn't type straight. It was all the positive Steam reviews that really made my eyes bulge out furiously.

After I calmed down I realised that I obviously have more money than sense as I knew I hated POE and Obsidion (but was just so desperate). Weak, weak.