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Community RPG Codex Top 55 JRPGs

Ash

Arcane
Joined
Oct 16, 2015
Messages
6,150
These games are mostly designed for and played by children.

Nah. Mario. Zelda. Pokemon. Sonic. Minecraft. Kirby. Golden Sun. Fuck it, even shitty Rocket League. These are designed for children; relatively easy to pickup, understand and play, but are still games, and still engage and challenge. 60% of JRPGs are non-games designed for storyfags...storyfaggots of the worst kind: weeb storyfags.

Most of my JRPG playing was when I was a kid/teen, and I hated such "games". Others I'd still gladly play today, and do (with mods for even better gameplay if I can).
I'm being unnecessarily harsh on JRPGs though, as a lot of cRPGs suffer the same problem. But the ratio is perhaps a bit better there.

A lot of these devs were probably just storyfags themselves, hipsters that wanted to tell a story and were clueless (as so many are, it seems) when it comes to gameplay. Other times it was clear selling out. Final Fantasy 4 is a good example here:

Final Fantasy IV was lead designer Takashi Tokita's first project at Square as a full-time employee. Before this, Tokita wanted a career as a theater actor, but working on the game made him decide to become a "great creator" of video games.

First project. Theater fag. Clueless decline whore. You read any insight on the development of this game from this guy and it's mostly "story story story!!!". Luckily this trend did not continue with FF5 until...13.
 
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Ravielsk

Magister
Joined
Feb 20, 2021
Messages
1,474
Where Dragon's Dogma. Horrible list. Horrible users. Shame on you all.
I am gonna be honest with you chief. I did not participate in the poll but Dragons Dogma does not belong on that list simply because its not finished. Even with the Dark Arisen expansion its visibly a patchwork of a game. A good game mind you but one that is only about 60-70% done. That alone is enough to disqualify it from any top list.
 

Falksi

Arcane
Joined
Feb 14, 2017
Messages
10,408
Location
Nottingham
These games are mostly designed for and played by children.

You sound like someone who's been raised, or only experienced, Nintendo JRPGs.

Dark Souls, Yakuza, Phantasy Star, SMT, Lost Odyssey, Nier etc. There's plenty of series which are geared way more towards teens & adults with their subjects & challenge.
 

v1rus

Arcane
Joined
Jul 14, 2008
Messages
2,244
It's decline, but I don't rank it in the same category I do dishonorable non-games or total shit like CT, Bioshock, Assassin's Creed, Oblivion/Skyrim, Suikoden, Final Fantasy 4...

I find your logic and reasoning sound and respectable, and I just want to pick your brain for a bit.

Inclusion of Suikoden among the "dishonorable non-games" surprised me. Dont get me wrong, I was 13 when I played the lot of them, and I'm sure you are absolutely right that most game aspects (combat, resource management, level design, etc.) are subpar/nonexistent, and my love for the series is almost certainly a mix between story-fagottry and nostalgia glasses.

But, doesnt Suikoden involve certain aspects that could be considered a "game"? And an interesting take on that imho. It does have lots of optional content, and just like with Pokemon, you have the implicit main quest of collecting them all. And collecting all the characters in a way is a puzzle/exploration challenge, even if often obscure or rudimentary. And further, the IIRC, collecting all the characters unlocks different endings/paths/solutions. Not saying thats enough to make it a good game, and the execution is probably severely lacking, but it is an interesting game framework imho, and an interesting game framework is way more than Skyrim/AC/Bioshock ever offered.
 

Lucumo

Educated
Joined
May 9, 2021
Messages
635
I used my starter pokemon in Blue and Gold to just beat everything with it. There was never any need to use any other pokemon...even with your plant starter pokemon, you can easily beat the fire Gym

Bull. Shit. Even the very first gym is borderline impossible with Charmander-only unless you grind a ton or know the metagame.

You're telling me you beat the Elite 4 (5) with your starter pokemon only on your first playthrough with zero difficulty? Bullshit.

If true in some particular exception or other (Bulbasaur is OP, so maybe he is viable. No way Charmander is though), well I played the game properly with an averaged out party as intended and got the proper experience. Why you would want to make the game boring for yourself spamming the same pokemon, same move constantly IDK.

And pokemon dungeons didn't have "multiple elements of puzzle"

Yes they did. Why bother arguing with facts?

Regarding navigation: Sure the bug woods wasn't the best example, it is the tutorial-phase first dungeon after all, but even this has more than one direction to go in, with optional loot/encounters. They progressively get more complex, so going "nuh uh!" is just disingenuous.

Example map

The first gym with Charmander is the hardest in the game, probably followed by the second gym with Charmander. So writing "even" makes no sense. With the other starter pokemon, it's trivial.

I probably used one, maybe two max revives at best at the Elite 4 if my pokemon died to Lance or maybe the rival.

Since I had Blue, I obviously used Squirtle. "Intended" and "proper" experience, lol. If they had wanted that, they could have forced players to use more than one pokemon. They didn't, so why wouldn't I use the best and most efficient method? It's what naturally comes to mind, even as a kid.

Cute how you use an example from Silver/Gold when you wrote:
Let's use Red as an example:

-Every pokemon dungeon has multiple elements of puzzle, e.g using H.M strength to push blocks around to clear a path, attempting to avoid a trainer's line of sight because you have low HP. or the teleportation puzzles in Team Rocket's hideout. They're not overly simple to navigate either, let's use the first dungeon as an example: the bug woods is designed like a maze. The level design is pretty great and leagues above CT.
So on your maps there are some teleporters, interesting "multiple elements of puzzle". And like I said, if you are about exploration, you try to grab every item you can find which makes the teleportation "puzzle" worthless anyway.
 

Ash

Arcane
Joined
Oct 16, 2015
Messages
6,150
If you think the original bunch of pokemon games are equivalent to CT in terms of gameplay complexity and depth then I have nothing further to discuss with you. I am wasting my time. It's only comparable in the combat, and only if you played like an autistic kid with zero curiosity.
 

Lucumo

Educated
Joined
May 9, 2021
Messages
635
If you think the original bunch of pokemon games are equivalent to CT in terms of gameplay complexity and depth then I have nothing further to discuss with you. I am wasting my time. It's only comparable in the combat, and only if you played like an autistic kid with zero curiosity.
But I haven't mentioned Chrono Trigger once, nor has our Pokemon discussion anything to do with it?

/edit: Actually, I'm the one wasting my time. After all, you seem retarded enough that you think we are talking about CT in any way, despite me stating at the very beginning: "I agree with Jasede." while citing your "refutation" regarding Pokemon.
I don't see what's so engrossing about using your one good attack on your best monster every fight which is entirely sufficient to beat the game if you focus all the XP on your starter.
And, apparently, we played the same way, which is the most logical and easy one. Just using your starter pokemon to breeze through the game. The collection part is separate from the fights. The last part you said also doesn't make any sense, considering I wrote one of the great part of Pokemon was the exploration aspect. So yeah, either learn to hold a discussion or stop being stupid.
 
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Ash

Arcane
Joined
Oct 16, 2015
Messages
6,150
You "agreed with Jasede", whom stated Pokemon was equal or inferior to CT in that regard.

Pokemon isn't a hardcore game, and its combat, stategy, puzzle elements are all relatively simple, but the point is they are there at all, and in high frequency, when in many JRPGs (and certain CRPGs - storyfag non-games) they are often not present at all.
 

Lucumo

Educated
Joined
May 9, 2021
Messages
635
You "agreed with Jasede", whom stated Pokemon was equal or inferior to CT in that regard.

Pokemon isn't a hardcore game, and its combat, stategy, puzzle elements are all relatively simple, but the point is they are there at all, and in high frequency, when in many JRPGs (and certain CRPGs - storyfag non-games) they are often not present at all.
Where do you see that in this post?
Have we played the same Pokemon? I've played Red and FireRed and they were the worst games I've played in ages. You can't lose a fight, you only learn 4 skills per monster, you just go from place to place for no real reason...

I don't see what's so engrossing about using your one good attack on your best monster every fight which is entirely sufficient to beat the game if you focus all the XP on your starter.

Honestly, zero standards in gameplay? It's okay to play a casual jrpg with great graphics and music once in a while. I don't have to play Dwarf Fortress every day to maintain my gamer cred. I can play Lands of Lore, a very casual blobber, sometimes without suddenly losing all my standards...
To which you replied and which I cited.
Those combat combat combat worms really got a hold on you haha

Let's use Red as an example:

-Every pokemon dungeon has multiple elements of puzzle, e.g using H.M strength to push blocks around to clear a path, attempting to avoid a trainer's line of sight because you have low HP. or the teleportation puzzles in Team Rocket's hideout. They're not overly simple to navigate either, let's use the first dungeon as an example: the bug woods is designed like a maze. The level design is pretty great and leagues above CT.
-Dungeons are also a genuine battle of attrition. e.g Moon Cave (can't remember the name the first cave) getting assraped by zubats and pokemon trainers, it is a challenge to make it through without your party fainting. I would say the combat is better. A bit simpler, but at least you have to think about shit. Gym bosses can be hard too if you don't grind or use the correct party setup.
-there's always genuine strategic choices even if basic, e.g which old move do you overwrite when you level up or use HM/TM? Gym is fire, is my party adequate or should I go fishing?
-There's optional shit everywhere, from items found via exploration (and hidden/invisible items found from frobbing stuff), to an actual casino (LOL), to the safari zone, to the very premise of the game - catching them all (or not!).
-Item management and the economy are pretty well balanced. Can only have 30 items in your pack so you have to pick and choose. There's never enough money to buy everything you want till the end of the game.
Honestly, I don't think I can help you if you can't follow conversation chains. There is also no point in comparing it to other games. I simply pointed out that your "refutation" is nonsense, nothing more, nothing less.
 

quaesta

Educated
Joined
Oct 27, 2022
Messages
132
> Sengoku Rance at #1
> Yakuza Like a Dragon at #7
>Dragon Quest not only ranking higher than Final Fantasy games, the highest Final Fantasy game was Tactics, not the mainline ones
> Breath of Fire 1 is the most disliked JRPG: Breath of Fire Dragon Quarter is also #45 of top JRPGs. That's a hell of a gap
> King's Field ranking goes IV I, II, III. I haven't played those myself, but I just find the ordering to be humorous, I can't think of another game like that.
I just love how Sengoku Rance, a god damn hentai VN, is rated as a masterpiece. I should go ahead and finish it
 

Ash

Arcane
Joined
Oct 16, 2015
Messages
6,150
It's decline, but I don't rank it in the same category I do dishonorable non-games or total shit like CT, Bioshock, Assassin's Creed, Oblivion/Skyrim, Suikoden, Final Fantasy 4...

I find your logic and reasoning sound and respectable, and I just want to pick your brain for a bit.

Inclusion of Suikoden among the "dishonorable non-games" surprised me. Dont get me wrong, I was 13 when I played the lot of them, and I'm sure you are absolutely right that most game aspects (combat, resource management, level design, etc.) are subpar/nonexistent, and my love for the series is almost certainly a mix between story-fagottry and nostalgia glasses.

But, doesnt Suikoden involve certain aspects that could be considered a "game"? And an interesting take on that imho. It does have lots of optional content, and just like with Pokemon, you have the implicit main quest of collecting them all. And collecting all the characters in a way is a puzzle/exploration challenge, even if often obscure or rudimentary. And further, the IIRC, collecting all the characters unlocks different endings/paths/solutions. Not saying thats enough to make it a good game, and the execution is probably severely lacking, but it is an interesting game framework imho, and an interesting game framework is way more than Skyrim/AC/Bioshock ever offered.

You could be correct. I played Suikoden for approx. 8 hours before I discarded it. Firstly, that may have not been enough time to let it flourish (certainly is about what is needed for, say, FF6 to pick up steam), and secondly, I do recall *some* minor gameplay focus and substance, no matter how small. So I may have jumped the gun by including it, maybe. Apologies. I'm definitely not wrong about the other games though.
 
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Joined
Sep 1, 2020
Messages
896
Very shitty methodology. Obviously, popular games are very polarizing and are going to get lower averages. In contrast, everyone who played Rance got exactly what they were looking for.

At least we're making someone in Resetera mad.
 

Lucumo

Educated
Joined
May 9, 2021
Messages
635
In contrast, everyone who played Rance got exactly what they were looking for.
But I wasn't expecting anything when I played Sengoku Rance 13 years ago (though, I also didn't give it any points). And that's beside the fact that different Rance games are part of different genres.
 

quaesta

Educated
Joined
Oct 27, 2022
Messages
132
Very shitty methodology. Obviously, popular games are very polarizing and are going to get lower averages. In contrast, everyone who played Rance got exactly what they were looking for.

At least we're making someone in Resetera mad.
Actually no, popular games on average get a higher score. At least, that's what I calculated (and I will admit, I'm a bit of a neanderthal when it comes to statistics). Here's the source of the calculation, and I attached a plot of the popularity to rating, with a linear regression line plotted.

 
Joined
Sep 22, 2017
Messages
100
Baten Kaitos, all the Xenoblade Chronicles and Metal Max games and Valkyrie Profile should have been in the final list: They are far better than those horribly boring, creatively bankrupt Dragon Quest games. Other games that would be good choices: Dark Half, Energy Breaker, Wild ARMS 3, Moryou Senki Madara, Lagrange Point.
 

Falksi

Arcane
Joined
Feb 14, 2017
Messages
10,408
Location
Nottingham
I've posted the poll in various places and the CT butthurt is HUGE, it really does attract child-minded dolts. And it has really has opened my eyes up to how dumb a lot of the CT hardcore fans are.

This made me laugh today, a random comment on a Facebook meme from said fan who tries to shoe-horn CTs alleged "brilliance" into every conversation...

LCAxoIJ.jpg


iYzJnE9.png
 

S.torch

Arbiter
Joined
Jan 4, 2019
Messages
929
Are you sure that the child-minded dolt isn't you? I mean is like the second or third time you say you're going around on the internet provoking people by posting this retarded poll.

Nice reddit meme by the way.
 

Falksi

Arcane
Joined
Feb 14, 2017
Messages
10,408
Location
Nottingham
Are you sure that the child-minded dolt isn't you? I mean is like the second or third time you say you're going around on the internet provoking people by posting this retarded poll.

Nice reddit meme by the way.
They shouldn't be provoked by a poll, no-one else is. But that's kind of irrelevant anyway. The CT fan has displayed retardism which I'm starting to associate with their fanbase. I just think it's funny.
 

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