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Community RPG Codex Top 55 JRPGs

Darkozric

Arbiter
Edgy
Joined
Jun 3, 2018
Messages
1,617
Manbitches fighting over Japanese shit :D Anyway, I never understood the appeal of Final Faggotry <insert number>. I played only Strange Journey from this list, mostly for the Carpenter-ish setting.
And why the fuck there's no Etrian Odyssey on the list? EO3 was fun shit with a nice aquatic setting.
 

samuraigaiden

Arcane
Joined
Dec 28, 2018
Messages
1,954
Location
Harare
RPG Wokedex
Not according to our resident RoSodude, who played it for the first time a year or two ago and didn't grind: https://rpgcodex.net/forums/threads/played-ff7-for-the-first-time-recently.134731/#post-6897909

Keep grasping at straws. It's already been fully acknowledged that the combat is too easy, especially the random encounters. So why are you arguing this to us? It's a pretty big flaw, but common to a lot of RPGs, and it's mostly everything else that make it great. Furthermore, all you need is a simple challenge romhack to fix the problem and make it complete. There is no fixing storyfag non-games like many that appear high in the list, however.

Just for the record, I played it recently too and I didn't grind at all. Curiously, it's one of the few games I beat below the howlongtobeat.com average main story time just through normal play, without rushing.

There's a difference between easy combat and brain dead combat. Most JRPGs have easy combat. Accessibility is one of the staples of the genre. JRPGs were born as games for people too uncoordinated to play Mario. There's a Yūji Horii quote about the design of DQ1 that blatantly spells this out. When we are talking about FF7 combat, the complaint isn't just about it being easy, it's about it being a nothingburger.

FF7 removes even the most basic elements of challenge from regular encounters. Even in FF1 you got enemies immune to magic or to physical attacks, and since not all your characters did magic or physical attacks proficiently, this forced the player to adapt. The materia system is too generous. You can easily build a party that has everything. Make every single character a fighter/red mage and never look back.

Earthbound, which probably for some hipster reason isn't on the list, has a defensive magic (shields) that you have to use to beat the game. Even if you grind your soul out, you will get raped by late game trash mobs if you ignore defensive magic. It had several status effects relevant for both the player and enemies, including one that made enemies fight between themselves. I could go on. Earthbound's combat design is on a completely different league compared the garbage that is FF7, and Earthbound isn't even that great next to Shin Megami Tensei and Etrian Odyssey, for example.

I can't stress this enough. Even shitty games like Paladin's Quest and Tecmo's Secret of the Stars have objectively superior combat and enemy design.

FF7 is designed to be played by someone who isn't paying attention. Maybe they felt the FMV novelty was so strong, an actually (minimally) challenging game along with it would ruin the magic. I don't know. But it doesn't live up to scrutiny.
 
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Derringer

Prophet
Joined
Jan 28, 2020
Messages
1,934
Not according to our resident RoSodude, who played it for the first time a year or two ago and didn't grind: https://rpgcodex.net/forums/threads/played-ff7-for-the-first-time-recently.134731/#post-6897909

Keep grasping at straws. It's already been fully acknowledged that the combat is too easy, especially the random encounters. So why are you arguing this to us? It's a pretty big flaw, but common to a lot of RPGs, and it's mostly everything else that make it great. Furthermore, all you need is a simple challenge romhack to fix the problem and make it complete. There is no fixing storyfag non-games like many that appear high in the list, however.

Just for the record, I played it recently too and I didn't grind at all. Curiously, it's one of the few games I beat below the howlongtobeat.com average main story time just through normal play, without rushing.

There's a difference between easy combat and brain dead combat. Most JRPGs have easy combat. Accessibility is one of the staples of the genre. JRPGs were born as games for people too uncoordinated to play Mario. There's a Yūji Horii quote about the design of DQ1 that blatantly spells this out. When we are talking about FF7 combat, the complaint isn't just about it being easy, it's about it being a nothingburger.

FF7 removes even the most basic elements of challenge from regular encounters. Even in FF1 you got enemies immune to magic or to physical attacks, and since not all your characters did magic or physical attacks proficiently, this forced the player to adapt. The materia system is too generous. You can easily build a party that has everything. Make every single character a fighter/red mage and never look back.

Earthbound, which probably for some hipster reason isn't on the list, has a defensive magic (shields) that you have to use to beat the game. Even if you grind your soul out, you will get raped by late game trash mobs if you ignore defensive magic. It had several status effects relevant for both the player and enemies, including one that made enemies fight between themselves. I could go on. Earthbound's combat design is on a completely different league compared the garbage that is FF7, and Earthbound isn't even that great next to Shin Megami Tensei and Etrian Odyssey, for example.

I can't stress this enough. Even shitty games like Paladin's Quest and Tecmo's Secret of the Stars have objectively superior combat and enemy design.

FF7 is designed to be played by someone who isn't paying attention. Maybe they felt the FMV novelty was so strong, an actually (minimally) challenging game along with it would ruin the magic. I don't know. But it doesn't live up to scrutiny.
I still like the 'shitty' games like Paladin's Quest well enough even if they're not very well made just because they try to at least be a little bit different scenario wise. Most JRPGs have really simple combat past the scenario design, whatever care past that goes into the combat puzzle and sound design if it wants to be worth bothering with. The sound design in FF7 is good and the scenario is different enough to keep you playing, what I saw is that they probably thought the model animations would carry the battles since they put a good amount of effort and money into making models for the game.
 
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jungl

Augur
Joined
Mar 30, 2016
Messages
1,412
its a questionable list alright with dumb visual novel games like rance making the list. Forgettable hack and slash trails of mana and ogre battle with its incredibly stupid game mechanics.
 

Falksi

Arcane
Joined
Feb 14, 2017
Messages
10,408
Location
Nottingham
Most JRPGs have easy combat. Accessibility is one of the staples of the genre. JRPGs were born as games for people too uncoordinated to play Mario.
We're they? Because the early JRPGs I remember were pretty tough, certainly as a kid.

Final Fantasy 1, Phantasy Star 1 & 2, 7th Saga, Warsong etc.

If anything, I'd people used to play Mario because JRPGs in their infancy were more challenging. It was certainly how I remember it being viewed.
 

orcinator

Liturgist
Joined
Jan 23, 2016
Messages
1,687
Location
Republic of Kongou
Attacking a game for being accessible to beginners is a little odd, like saying G rated movies shouldn't exist.
But they probably shouldn't win many "best movie of all time" awards from prestigious online magazines :rpgcodex:
I say they should. Willy Wonka and the Chocolate Factory is a classic. Babe is a classic.
The equivalent of those would be something like the better Marios, games made for kids that still manage to retain gameplay depth, not a game where you can do the same thing from hour 1 to hour 40 and succeed, let alone one where you don't even have the option of doing anything else.
 
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Roguey

Codex Staff
Staff Member
Sawyerite
Joined
May 29, 2010
Messages
35,488
We're they? Because the early JRPGs I remember were pretty tough, certainly as a kid.

Final Fantasy 1, Phantasy Star 1 & 2, 7th Saga, Warsong etc.

If anything, I'd people used to play Mario because JRPGs in their infancy were more challenging. It was certainly how I remember it being viewed.
Old platformers, when played perfectly, could be completed within a hour. They had a high degree of physical demands to give one their money's worth. JRPG game lengths were padded through hours of random encounters (also obfuscation of enemy weaknesses/statistics and the like, requiring trial and error or guide-use).
 
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Ash

Arcane
Joined
Oct 16, 2015
Messages
6,150

FF7 is designed to be played by someone who isn't paying attention. Maybe they felt the FMV novelty was so strong, an actually (minimally) challenging game along with it would ruin the magic. I don't know. But it doesn't live up to scrutiny.
Again, you're just whining about the combat and extrapolating your criticism of that one aspect to the whole game, as well as pretending the gameplay is equivalent to the likes of the retard-tier Chrono Trigger or even worse than it. You're dumb.

It also overlooks the need for the correct materia/build setup to dominate, the optional battles that are testing (e.g Yuffie Pagoda side quest first visit, attempting to take on the Midgar Zolom first visit, obtaining aqualung from Harpy early), things like attempting to obtain enemy skills which demands manipulating battles in your favor, and so on.

And lastly, once again, it has been acknowledged by anyone that has ever played it that the combat is too easy, so you're ranting at people that agree with that notion, but then taking it to retarded extremes, because the game does demand way more from the player than the average JRPG, just not in terms of combat difficulty. Again, there's a good mod for that. the aspects of your criticism that IS valid all becomes moot with one very basic mod.

What is it with people that can't distinguish gameplay properly? It's combat and that's it. Not even build strategy is a thing with these people.
You also don't acknowledge combat complexity. There's a lot to play with and understand by comparison to the average JRPG, even if it all amounts to nothing most of the time because too easy. There's fun in complex systems regardless. JRPG turn-based combat is kind of traditionally shitty, so I prefer semi-complex combat but falls on its face yet there's optional combat encounters that deliver, rather than barebones but omg you gotta time your healing spell correctly in RNG-based combat otherwise you die and have to do it all over again from 30 minutes of shitty storytelling or endless random encounters ago.
 
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Lucumo

Educated
Joined
May 9, 2021
Messages
635

I genuinely think that's part of the problem. Some of the claims made by some CT fans are just bollocks, and you can tell they've not really played many JRPGs, or even games from the 80's/90's in general.

"CT invented NG+!" - Nope, I think Zelda 2 did. It certainly had NG+

"CT invented multiple endings!" - Nope, games from the 80's had nailed that long before, my earliest memory of them being Phantasy Star 3.

"CT invented cross-class combos!" - Nope, again my earliest memory of them was Phantasy Star 4

etc.

It's almost like a weird cult. Metroid fans are similar. The amount of times I hear "Metroid INVENTED Metroidvania games! Hence the name!" When in reality SOTN popularized the term, but games like Citadel on the BBC Micro were out years before Metroid.
Isn't it simply due to the fact that people who only played SNES/Nintendo stuff became gaming "journalists" and started spreading it everywhere while Mega Drive and PC players got actual jobs and moved on with their lives?
 

samuraigaiden

Arcane
Joined
Dec 28, 2018
Messages
1,954
Location
Harare
RPG Wokedex
Most JRPGs have easy combat. Accessibility is one of the staples of the genre. JRPGs were born as games for people too uncoordinated to play Mario.
We're they? Because the early JRPGs I remember were pretty tough, certainly as a kid.

Final Fantasy 1, Phantasy Star 1 & 2, 7th Saga, Warsong etc.

If anything, I'd people used to play Mario because JRPGs in their infancy were more challenging. It was certainly how I remember it being viewed.

You are old enough to have seen people saying they played console JRPGs for the story. You know what that means. They just grind all their characters until they are OP beyond measure and can one shot the last boss. When they play emulated JRPGs, they unlock the framerate to grind super fast. It's for them that turbo mode exists in modern re-releases of old games.
 

Dadd

Learned
Joined
Aug 20, 2022
Messages
2,600
Another poll should be conducted without the snowflakes who voted in the last poll. The list gets worse the more I look at it.
 

J1M

Arcane
Joined
May 14, 2008
Messages
14,581
Would be interested to see the Codex opinion of Penny Arcade: On The Rain-Slick Precipice Of Darkness 3.
 

GhostCow

Balanced Gamer
Patron
Joined
Jan 2, 2020
Messages
3,992
Would be interested to see the Codex opinion of Penny Arcade: On The Rain-Slick Precipice Of Darkness 3.
It was pretty good. I generally like anything made by Zeboyd Games. It's been too many years since I played it to say anything more specific than that.
 

Derringer

Prophet
Joined
Jan 28, 2020
Messages
1,934
Most JRPGs have easy combat. Accessibility is one of the staples of the genre. JRPGs were born as games for people too uncoordinated to play Mario.
We're they? Because the early JRPGs I remember were pretty tough, certainly as a kid.

Final Fantasy 1, Phantasy Star 1 & 2, 7th Saga, Warsong etc.

If anything, I'd people used to play Mario because JRPGs in their infancy were more challenging. It was certainly how I remember it being viewed.
7th Saga was made harder with the western release which is funny since they made FF4 easier because of the mandatory grinding.
 

somerandomdude

Learned
Joined
May 26, 2022
Messages
650
Most JRPGs have easy combat. Accessibility is one of the staples of the genre. JRPGs were born as games for people too uncoordinated to play Mario.
We're they? Because the early JRPGs I remember were pretty tough, certainly as a kid.

Final Fantasy 1, Phantasy Star 1 & 2, 7th Saga, Warsong etc.

If anything, I'd people used to play Mario because JRPGs in their infancy were more challenging. It was certainly how I remember it being viewed.

7th Saga was brutal. I restarted a couple of times, and when I ended up beating it, I did it with the Priest.
 

Taurist

Scholar
Joined
Dec 8, 2017
Messages
108
The JRPG in the 90's / early 00's was what the western popamole third person shooter was of the 10's. An envelope in which to deliver an interesting story, great graphics, great music, great pacing etc, with gameplay last of all and barely considered by a lot of devs.
Its why these lists are hard to quantify. Chrono Trigger is a masterpiece, but arguably as a game its trash compared with your average pedophile Wizardry clone. Which is better? Though this list sucks by either metric.

What makes Final Fantasy VI so superior to VII?
VI and VII are both great, but what pulls VI ahead for many people is the pacing. Or more specifically the speed. Every battle in VII is torturously slow.
 

Falksi

Arcane
Joined
Feb 14, 2017
Messages
10,408
Location
Nottingham

I genuinely think that's part of the problem. Some of the claims made by some CT fans are just bollocks, and you can tell they've not really played many JRPGs, or even games from the 80's/90's in general.

"CT invented NG+!" - Nope, I think Zelda 2 did. It certainly had NG+

"CT invented multiple endings!" - Nope, games from the 80's had nailed that long before, my earliest memory of them being Phantasy Star 3.

"CT invented cross-class combos!" - Nope, again my earliest memory of them was Phantasy Star 4

etc.

It's almost like a weird cult. Metroid fans are similar. The amount of times I hear "Metroid INVENTED Metroidvania games! Hence the name!" When in reality SOTN popularized the term, but games like Citadel on the BBC Micro were out years before Metroid.
Isn't it simply due to the fact that people who only played SNES/Nintendo stuff became gaming "journalists" and started spreading it everywhere while Mega Drive and PC players got actual jobs and moved on with their lives?

Ha, very true.

Funnily enough one kid has just been trying to claim CT invented a ton of stuff which it didn't again :lol:

HA5kkyY.png


They're a weird breed.
 
Unwanted

†††

Patron
Joined
Sep 21, 2015
Messages
3,544
My most controversial post to date: I enjoyed Chrono Trigger when I played it long ago and I don't even care if it holds up well or not
 

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