Putting the 'role' back in role-playing games since 2002.
Donate to Codex
Good Old Games
  • Welcome to rpgcodex.net, a site dedicated to discussing computer based role-playing games in a free and open fashion. We're less strict than other forums, but please refer to the rules.

    "This message is awaiting moderator approval": All new users must pass through our moderation queue before they will be able to post normally. Until your account has "passed" your posts will only be visible to yourself (and moderators) until they are approved. Give us a week to get around to approving / deleting / ignoring your mundane opinion on crap before hassling us about it. Once you have passed the moderation period (think of it as a test), you will be able to post normally, just like all the other retards.

Community RPG Codex Top 55 JRPGs

Chanel Oberlin

Pineapple appreciator
Patron
Joined
Oct 13, 2022
Messages
359
The butthurt in this thread is everything I had hoped for. Even better, not a single codexer that I respect has defended Chrono Trigger
You proclaim that a beloved game is irredeemably shit and instead of refuting the counterarguments you attack the posters. Are you sure the others are the butthurt ones?
 

GhostCow

Balanced Gamer
Patron
Joined
Jan 2, 2020
Messages
3,992
The butthurt in this thread is everything I had hoped for. Even better, not a single codexer that I respect has defended Chrono Trigger
You proclaim that a beloved game is irredeemably shit and instead of refuting the counterarguments you attack the posters. Are you sure the others are the butthurt ones?
I've argued this to death. They are just repeating themselves at this point. I'm not going to keep responding to the same talking points over and over. I'm too busy bathing in their tears. It's only two guys getting butthurt anyway, one of which is hopelessly retarded.
 

Grampy_Bone

Arcane
Joined
Jan 25, 2016
Messages
3,571
Location
Wandering the world randomly in search of maps
This is a fair, unfixed vote
Except it seems to use some odd methodology to control for popularity, advantaging games with fewer votes but more passionate defenders. Every crap game is someone's favorite game, so we got a list that's half obscurities that nobody played except a few weirdos who probably eat cereal on the toilet.

This isn't inherently wrong--it's certainly boring seeing all the final fantasys over and over--but whatever Michael Mann hockey stick voodoo magic was used to put Dark Spire on the list is beyond silly.

Looking at the regular top RPG poll, there are pretty much all quality titles there. I don't personally like Witcher 3 that much, but I still recognize it's a well-made product that you could put in the hands of almost any RPG player and they would have a good time. If I put Unlimited SaGa in even a die hard JRPG fan's hands, I'd probably get a severe beating.
 

Ash

Arcane
Joined
Oct 16, 2015
Messages
6,150
however on the other hand we got total storyfaggot non-games like Suikoden 2 or Chrono Trigger
Dude...
You're defending FF7 inclusion is which even worse in that regard :lol:

Please stop saying stupid shit and spreading fake news. I must have thought you're more respectable than you really are.

CT and S2 have barebones, non-gameplay. There is next to no build choice and strategy, level design requires very little thought and are non-interactive, challenge is non-existent, annnnd that's the actual games for the most part. I'm not even exaggerating. There isn't much more to them, aside from S2's strategy battles which are boring asf.

Whereas FF7 has:

-Build choice aplenty thanks to the materia system, and while it doesn't matter too much against normal mobs, it does against bosses.
-Level design that often (not always, but in significant quantity by JRPG standards; there's almost always something) features interactive elements, puzzle elements, and navigational challenges. S2 and CT, little to none.
-We're talking about the game with a stupid amount of mini-games, and the most wide-reaching gameplay of any JRPG with genres such as: RTS, Arcade FPS, Racing/Road Rash, Snowboarding, Submarine Sim. Even if they're all shit compared to the actual games of each genre, it is just one more thing that proves my point and shows you're full of shit.
-Exploration and side content; e.g a genuine world map with optional dungeons and secrets. Little to none to be found in CT/S2.
-Small thing here, but dialogue choices, which sometimes even impact gameplay further.
-More on challenge: again normal mobs not much to do say, spam attack and your best magic + make sure you're topped up on health and healing items. Bosses not so much unless you grind. HOWEVER, there is challenge at all times in terms of: puzzles, navigation, figuring out the next shitty mini-game, figuring out how to progress the story next (e.g corel desert prison), side content like the battle arena, and so on. CT and S2 simply do not engage the player, especially CT.

Despite such broad gameplay (by JRPG standards), the story is still given at least equal focus if not more (or it's given more focus by the dim-witted "gamers"/storyfags), but the gameplay is very much a thing, generally quite good (for the 100th time, get hardtype romhack to make this a genuine classic), and I tire of having to repeat myself to the unobservant.

Not only are the 90s FF (sans 4) better in terms of gameplay depth and complexity than any other turn-based traditional JRPG I've played, but they're also better in terms of tolerable animu cringe factor than most, art direction, music, overall production values and more. That they've been excluded in favor of the likes of the super cringey Shadow Hearts: Cov, the janky and barebones Lufia 2, or really any turn-based JRPG non-game I've ever suffered through is laughable.

Chrono Trigger had a cool frog. Also, the characters look like they are straight from DBZ, which is also pretty cool. Triple attacks are also cool.

Btw. Golden Sun was robbed as well. It had the coolest special attacks in the genre. What else do you want from a JRPG?

but DBZ is gay lame animu for manchildren that never discovered the likes of say Akira or Cyber City, the few actual rare non-retarded mature animus. No subjectivity here, half of DBZ is episode recaps and characters endlessly powering up. And when the action does happen, oh boy. Often times an attack is one animation frame just with light flashing past them.

Golden Sun is alright. far better than CT at least. The most significant aspect it has is its level design, something CT lacks.

CT and DBZ lol. Get some taste, bitches:

 
Last edited:

Falksi

Arcane
Joined
Feb 14, 2017
Messages
10,408
Location
Nottingham
-More on challenge: again normal mobs not much to do say, spam attack and your best magic + make sure you're topped up on health and healing items. Bosses not so much unless you grind. HOWEVER, there is challenge at all times in terms of: puzzles, navigation, figuring out the next shitty mini-game, figuring out how to progress the story next (e.g corel desert prison), side content like the battle arena, and so on. CT and S2 simply do not engage the player, especially CT.
Well said. I literally just started replaying FF7 the other week (around 1/3rd of the way in), and the big difference between FF7 & CT for me is that FF7's combat remains engaging and somewhat exciting.

It's not particularly challenging as you say, but it's certainly not CT-easy. However, what FF7 does do great is that it offers a lot of enemies which have various weaknesses from a very early stage, and it also mixes up those enemies both in the same battles and in the same area. This at least prompts the player to have to think slightly to dominate the battles. Throw in the fact that the ATB bar moves at a pretty good pace (and that includes with enemy attacks), not to mention the excellent in-battle camera work helps adds some excitement, and to me battles in FF7 are often engaging & fun.

Whereas CT is simply "press A to win" for way more fights. Even when you get magic and have to use magic to win, like with the mallet-wielding goblins, that's about it. It's a one-step solution, and those dynamics remain simple and unengaging. Throw in the fact that the pacing is significantly slower, and there's no dynamic presentation to jazz things up, and combat in CT is a dull affair far more often.
 
Last edited:

Grampy_Bone

Arcane
Joined
Jan 25, 2016
Messages
3,571
Location
Wandering the world randomly in search of maps
Fine, I'll take a side. Bashing Chrono Trigger is pure popularity backlash.

Attacking a game for being accessible to beginners is a little odd, like saying G rated movies shouldn't exist. Again, not my favorite game, but come on. It's no Tecmo's Secret of the Stars or Final Fantasy Mystic Quest. Saying it requires no tactics to win... what game did you play? Lots of enemies designed to punish lazy play or require specific tactics. Bosses with multiple targets, contrasting elemental vulnerabilities, immunity to weapons/magic, punishing you for using AoE, many bosses with multiple phases/stances, bosses with revivable parts, cycling weak points, etc. etc. None of that is in, say, Dragon Quest anything. By contrast Terranigma can be won quite easily by button mashing; there aren't even any alternate weapons or party members. Even Secret of Mana games have more depth there. Chrono Trigger gives all playable characters variable moves depending on party composition, something I don't think any other game does in quite the same way. Yes, the characters themselves are mostly fixed--pretty much the same in Lufia 1/2, Mother 1,2,3, Phantasy star 1,2,3,4, DQ 1,2,4,5,8, etc. etc., all of which are games without the same depth of party composition. Games that do it better are generally Final Fantasy titles, which surprise surprise, everyone also bashes.

Other merits:

-Gorgeous game, one of the best looking on the console if not THE best
-Open ended 3rd act, uncommon at the time or since (FF6 is the only other example I can think of)
-Major villain is recruitable to the party
-Main character dies midway through--reviving is optional
-Time travel mechanics are fun and well implemented (compared to say Tales of Phantasia or Star Ocean)
-No random battles
-No grinding required, a frequent complaint for virtually every RPG player and a common roadblock to newcomers
-Literally invented New Game+

Bad things:
-Easy once you know all the boss tricks
-Customization limited to few gear choices and spending stat tabs
-Crono is required for most good party setups
-If you do grind magic becomes OP quickly
-Mostly linear dungeons
 

samuraigaiden

Arcane
Joined
Dec 28, 2018
Messages
1,954
Location
Harare
RPG Wokedex
So let me get this straight... There is NO MENTION of Etrian Odyssey... at all?

Monster Hunter 4 on a list of "Pure JRPGs" and no Etrian Odyssey anywhere?

Yeah, this list smells like poop.
 

DJOGamer PT

Arcane
Joined
Apr 8, 2015
Messages
7,123
Location
Lusitânia
Look the game is not terrible, but it's not great either
It's IMO mediocre for a jRPG and a positively overrated game
People remember it fondly because the game had an unprecedented, massive marketing campaign for its time - plus a cute story with cool visuals for the time
That's it
 

samuraigaiden

Arcane
Joined
Dec 28, 2018
Messages
1,954
Location
Harare
RPG Wokedex
FF7 has:

-Build choice aplenty thanks to the materia system, and while it doesn't matter too much against normal mobs, it does against bosses.
-Level design that often (not always, but in significant quantity by JRPG standards; there's almost always something) features interactive elements, puzzle elements, and navigational challenges. S2 and CT, little to none.
-We're talking about the game with a stupid amount of mini-games, and the most wide-reaching gameplay of any JRPG with genres such as: RTS, Arcade FPS, Racing/Road Rash, Snowboarding, Submarine Sim. Even if they're all shit compared to the actual games of each genre, it is just one more thing that proves my point and shows you're full of shit.
-Exploration and side content; e.g a genuine world map with optional dungeons and secrets. Little to none to be found in CT/S2.
-Small thing here, but dialogue choices, which sometimes even impact gameplay further.
-More on challenge: again normal mobs not much to do say, spam attack and your best magic + make sure you're topped up on health and healing items. Bosses not so much unless you grind. HOWEVER, there is challenge at all times in terms of: puzzles, navigation, figuring out the next shitty mini-game, figuring out how to progress the story next (e.g corel desert prison), side content like the battle arena, and so on. CT and S2 simply do not engage the player, especially CT.

This has to be the shittiest take ever. FF7 sucks, dude. It's a turd with mini games.
 

Ash

Arcane
Joined
Oct 16, 2015
Messages
6,150
Then I guess all turn-based traditional JRPGs are complete dogshit then, because 90s FF is best of the bunch I played, by far. Most of the others I played I can hardly call games. Yeah there's nice and worthy JRPGs that are ARPGs, SRPGs, RTw/P etc and they make a fair appearance in your shitty list, but the traditional turn-based selection is a joke. Storyfags and edgelords strike again.
 
Last edited:

Ash

Arcane
Joined
Oct 16, 2015
Messages
6,150
Fine, I'll take a side. Bashing Chrono Trigger is pure popularity backlash.

Attacking a game for being accessible to beginners is a little odd, like saying G rated movies shouldn't exist. Again, not my favorite game, but come on. It's no Tecmo's Secret of the Stars or Final Fantasy Mystic Quest. Saying it requires no tactics to win... what game did you play? Lots of enemies designed to punish lazy play or require specific tactics. Bosses with multiple targets, contrasting elemental vulnerabilities, immunity to weapons/magic, punishing you for using AoE, many bosses with multiple phases/stances, bosses with revivable parts, cycling weak points, etc. etc. None of that is in, say, Dragon Quest anything. By contrast Terranigma can be won quite easily by button mashing; there aren't even any alternate weapons or party members. Even Secret of Mana games have more depth there. Chrono Trigger gives all playable characters variable moves depending on party composition, something I don't think any other game does in quite the same way. Yes, the characters themselves are mostly fixed--pretty much the same in Lufia 1/2, Mother 1,2,3, Phantasy star 1,2,3,4, DQ 1,2,4,5,8, etc. etc., all of which are games without the same depth of party composition. Games that do it better are generally Final Fantasy titles, which surprise surprise, everyone also bashes.

True, this is better than a lot of the shit terribad JRPGs out there, but it's still wholly inadequate.

It's not pop. backlash. I played CT in 2016 or something and had a terribly boring time. Even Pokemon has 50x more gameplay depth and complexity (well, outside of combat).

Other merits:

-Gorgeous game, one of the best looking on the console if not THE best
-Open ended 3rd act, uncommon at the time or since (FF6 is the only other example I can think of)
-Major villain is recruitable to the party
-Main character dies midway through--reviving is optional
-Time travel mechanics are fun and well implemented (compared to say Tales of Phantasia or Star Ocean)
-No random battles
-No grinding required, a frequent complaint for virtually every RPG player and a common roadblock to newcomers
-Literally invented New Game+

Almost all of this does not stand in favor of the game's barebones gameplay though, which is pretty much my only issue with the game.
 

Falksi

Arcane
Joined
Feb 14, 2017
Messages
10,408
Location
Nottingham
I posted the poll in a few JRPG-specific Facebook groups. Chrono Trigger fans didn't disappoint with their display of dumbfuckery :lol: ....

QfnT6Ue.png
 

samuraigaiden

Arcane
Joined
Dec 28, 2018
Messages
1,954
Location
Harare
RPG Wokedex
FF7 is just not a very well made game. You can play the entire game doing exactly the same actions in every battle and it will only not work against the optional "Weapon" bosses and the green dragon in the last section of the last dungeon which is, btw, much harder to beat than the last boss.

Even a game generally considered bad like Paladin's Quest has better balanced/designed enemy encounters that force the player to change the strategy. FF7 is a joke in this regard.

Also, FF7 has the worst final boss of all time. It literally is unable to produce a full party wipe. It just either lowers the entire team to x% or it attacks one at a time for a determined amount of damage. You can kill it with the same strategy as any trash mob in the game! And to add insult to injury, there's the Supernova animation. A 2 minute long, unskippable cutscene that is repeated during combat every time the boss uses it's main attack. Which can happen several times during the boss fight. All in all, it's one long, boring, predictable, unchallenging affair that really closes the game on the lowest possible note.

Many JRPGs might not have customization, mini-games, side content, etc., but I cannot remember a single one that had something so awful programmed in it like FF7's last boss. It is undoubtedly the worst JRPG final boss battle of all, no exaggeration.

And we could also get into the fact the story is so convoluted, it is arguably impossible to really know what's going on without checking a wiki, which is only made worse by the very garbage translation it got originally. It's not a great story. It has interesting themes, it has a balsy idea or two, but people who praise FF7 for the story are really only talking about disc 1. Most of what comes later is just trash.
 

GhostCow

Balanced Gamer
Patron
Joined
Jan 2, 2020
Messages
3,992
Why do people keep praising Chrono Trigger's graphics? It doesn't look bad but it looks like every other Squaresoft game on the SNES. It's nothing special in that department.
 

Grauken

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Mar 22, 2013
Messages
12,538
Why do people keep praising Chrono Trigger's graphics? It doesn't look bad but it looks like every other Squaresoft game on the SNES. It's nothing special in that department.
Given that the Squaresoft games on the SNES had the best looking pixel art for JRPGs thats basically praise
 

thesheeep

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Mar 16, 2007
Messages
9,880
Location
Tampere, Finland
Codex 2012 Strap Yourselves In Codex Year of the Donut Codex+ Now Streaming! Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Torment: Tides of Numenera Codex USB, 2014 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 BattleTech Bubbles In Memoria A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag. Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
Attacking a game for being accessible to beginners is a little odd, like saying G rated movies shouldn't exist.
But they probably shouldn't win many "best movie of all time" awards from prestigious online magazines :rpgcodex:
These lists are always nostalgia competitions first and foremost, anyway.

CT is bound to appear because so many people played it - and I mean, it's not great but it's not total shit either, and for kid versions of us, that was all that was needed to get burned into memory, really.
 

Sin2x

Scholar
Joined
Dec 5, 2016
Messages
100
Why do people keep praising Chrono Trigger's graphics? It doesn't look bad but it looks like every other Squaresoft game on the SNES. It's nothing special in that department.
Given that the Squaresoft games on the SNES had the best looking pixel art for JRPGs thats basically praise
The best looking pixel art on SNES is Tactics Ogre: Let Us Cling Together by Quest Corporation.
 

LarryTyphoid

Scholar
Joined
Sep 16, 2021
Messages
2,233
Panzer Dragoon Saga does not have an overhead view or blobber combat.
 

As an Amazon Associate, rpgcodex.net earns from qualifying purchases.
Back
Top Bottom