Vapourware RPG Codex's Best RPGs - 2019 - REVIEW THREAD!

[aweigh]

But to say the game is objectively bad designed, like you and others have claimed, is a lie because a game that is "objectively bad designed" couldn't have been as successful as Skyrim is.

I think it can. Absolutely it can.

I think a game or a movie that is objectively badly designed can be successful because there are other forces that influence the success beyond the quality of the article, for example endless and incessant marketing that convinces you that you need to play this game or that you need to see this movie (like a Transformers, for example), and also corrupt gerrymandering of critical reception, i.e. game "journalists" who have no knowledge of the subject but whose opinion is both bought and paid for AND also ignorant of what constitutes competence in design.

You need only create a cultural narrative that says that you are wrong for not consuming a specific thing. It happens all the time, all around us, every single day. Whether such a construction manages to keep itself from tumbling down depends on a myriad of many different factors however, because if this was easy then every single product would accomplish this, and obviously not every single product does.

The quality of the article dictates it's objective worth, however it's cultural worth is completely subjective.

 

[Sigourn]

I think it can. Absolutely it can.

I think a game or a movie that is objectively badly designed can be successful because there are other forces that influence the success beyond the quality of the article, for example endless and incessant marketing that convinces you that you need to play this game or that you need to see this movie (like a Transformers, for example), and also corrupt gerrymandering of critical reception, i.e. game "journalists" who have no knowledge of the subject but whose opinion is both bought and paid for AND also ignorant of what constitutes competence in design.

All of what you say is true... to an extent. Yes, marketing can make people buy your money and thus inflate sales of a game. It's not the same to compare Age of Decadence's unexisting marketing to that of Fallout 76, for instance, which had massive billboards everywhere. And there's no doubt that "one purchase = one satisfied customer" isn't right: as FO76 shows, A LOT of people were heavily disappointed.

But Skyrim was not just commercially successful. People loved it. People loved Morrowind. People loved Oblivion. People loved Fallout 3. People loved Skyrim. Only with Fallout 4 (and especially Fallout 76) did Bethesda started seeing a decrease in how much people loved their games. It is one thing to agree that you can drive people towards buying Skyrim, and it's another thing to believe you can brainwash people into liking Skyrim.

Regarding Grimoire: I don't dislike it because it is a dungeon crawler. I dislike it because the creator half-assed a game that was twenty years in the making. In my opinion. Feel free to disagree and enjoy Grimoire, because if people liked it enough to vote it into such high positions, it cannot be objectively bad designed.

 

[aweigh]

People loved it. People loved Morrowind. People loved Oblivion. People loved Fallout 3. People loved Skyrim. Only with Fallout 4 (and especially Fallout 76) did Bethesda started seeing a decrease in how much people loved their games. It is one thing to agree that you can drive people towards buying Skyrim, and it's another thing to believe you can brainwash people into liking Skyrim.

I'm saying exactly that, that you can brainwash people into liking things. Culture dictates tastes, and culture can be fabricated.

You'll scoff because the word brainwash has other connotations, deeper ones, political ones, but don't let that allow you to misunderstand what I'm saying. It's somewhere between convincing and brainwashing, that's where you'll find the hidden valley.

People don't want to critique or analyze what they enjoy, that's a learned habit, and we've already established you can enjoy shit.

 

[aweigh]

I wanted to add:

- Not only is being able to analyse something's worth a learned habit, and not a natural inclination, but it is also something that can be incorrectly taught: for example how "game journos" have trained people to look for things like "immersion".

 

[Sigourn]

I'm saying exactly that, that you can brainwash people into liking things. Culture dictates tastes, and culture can be fabricated.

You'll scoff because the word brainwash has other connotations, deeper ones, political ones, but don't let that allow you to misunderstand what I'm saying. It's somewhere between convincing and brainwashing, that's where you'll find the hidden valley.

People don't want to critique or analyze what they enjoy, that's a learned habit, and we've already established you can enjoy shit.

Bethesda had existed (in the eyes of the public) for nine years by the time of Skyrim's release, from the appearance of Morrowind on consoles (2002) to Skyrim (2011). I find it very, very hard to believe that game journalists "brainwashed" people into enjoying Skyrim.
What is more likely to be happening is that the games the Codex loves are a niche, which doesn't mean they are better or worse. The Codex simply has a different taste in RPGs. But it's best for the Codex's reputation to resort to the almighty argument "some people have shit taste, that's how you explain them liking Skyrim!".

I also have to lol at the McDonald's trashing, again. The only verifiable fact is that "fast food" can be bad for your health, which has no bearing on how tasty it is. And this:

Spoiler

is some of the best food I have tasted in my life, ahead of very expensive restaurants. I guess people are free to spend their money on disproportionately expensive food, though.

 

[aweigh]

Bethesda had existed (in the eyes of the public) for nine years by the time of Skyrim's release, from the appearance of Morrowind on consoles (2002) to Skyrim (2011). I find it very, very hard to believe that game journalists "brainwashed" people into enjoying Skyrim.
What is more likely to be happening is that the games the Codex loves are a niche, which doesn't mean they are better or worse. The Codex simply has a different taste in RPGs. But it's best for the Codex's reputation to resort to the almighty argument "some people have shit taste, that's how you explain them liking Skyrim!".

I also have to lol at the McDonald's trashing, again. The only verifiable fact is that "fast food" can be bad for your health, which has no bearing on how tasty it is. And this:

Spoiler

is some of the best food I have tasted in my life, ahead of very expensive restaurants. I guess people are free to spend their money on disproportionately expensive food, though.

Narrowing it down to "game journos brainwashed people into liking Skyrim" is not the point. Like I said earlier: culture dictates taste, and culture is fabricated.

The more I think about this the more I am coming to believe that the objective quality of an article is the least determining factor in whether or not something is successful. It is the most important factor for determining quality, or worthiness if you like, but not for success. These are very different dimensions.

-

1. Culture dictates tastes therefore it is susceptible to willfull forces and catalysts.

2. To critique or analyse objective quality is not a natural inclination but rather a founded habit, which can be incorrect or correct at the same time; susceptible to the willfull forces of culture.

3. Objective quality is the least important factor in determining overall success, however it is the most important factor in determining inherent quality (or worthiness).

And lastly:

4. Objective quality is largely irrelevant in the face of cultural forces.

 

[Neanderthal]

I don't care what you think, I enjoyed my tasty bowl of shit!

Then if you don't care what anyone thinks, why are you so rabidly defending your shit eating?

Because you shouldn't point out I'm eating shit!

You went full Skyrim again.

 

[Taka-Haradin puolipeikko]

I don't care what you think, I enjoyed my tasty bowl of shit!

Then if you don't care what anyone thinks, why are you so rabidly defending your shit eating?

Because you shouldn't point out I'm eating shit!

You went full Skyrim again.

B-but some people are eating old shit and therefore their motivations when voting the best shit isn't as good shit as my shit.

 

[Martyr]

imo it is perfectly fine to play and enjoy popamole games - as long as you're aware that they are popamole.

I've also played Skyrim and Oblivion (like most people here, I presume) and they're fun, it would be stupid to deny that. but they're complete decline and utter trash compared to the almighty Daggerfall.

for me, it's like this:
- the mainstream gamer only plays Skyrim/ Fallout 4 and doesn't know of Daggerfall/ Fallout 1 or he won't play them because they're old.
- people with good taste acknowledge that Daggerfall/ Fallout are vastly superior to their sequels. if that's the case it doesn't matter if that person also enjoys the sequels, as long as he doesn't think they are better.

 

[North Gibraltarian Dog]

Obviously Sigourn is trolling. Isn't it?

For example:

Hmmm, to play a game recommended by thousands of people over a game recommended by millions... if I don't know anything else about the game in question, I know which one I'm going to try first. Any sane person would, unless you are one of those people (i.e. Codexers) who think "popular = bad"... and yet, there we have The Witcher III, on spot #15 no less.

It's human nature. You may not actually believe this, but that's how you are living your life right now. At one point you have done something because the popular opinion said it was good. The only difference between the taste of a meal and the quality of Frozen is that you knew things about

Obviously he knows that only insecure teenagers and retards act in this way, especially regarding a main hobby in which a lot of hours have been invested and exist certain grade of expertise*. He probably decides what title to play following some quick critical reasoning and thanks to factual data about specific games. I mean, who the fuck could prefer simply to follow popular trends instead rationally compare information about mechanics, content or design to decide what game do it well in a specific set of contexts?

Even accepting his "good for me" trolling in the last pages, he would prefer to search for the most precise information about the diverse perspectives favoured by his very specific taste, even minimally, as for example read the game description, some elaborate negative reviews and a couple of positive ones full of examples of actual game mechanics, design or content.


*

Spoiler

(...I didn't play...)

Ultima series.

Wizardry series.

Might and Magic series.

The Bard's Tale series.

Dungeon Master.

Pretty much every western RPG released before Fallout.

 

[Parabalus]

Skyrim should be compared to GTA - then it's easy to understand why people like it.

Most of the furor here is because of it co-opting the RPG label (and franchises).

 

[Sigourn]

Obviously he knows that only insecure teenagers and retards act in this way, especially regarding a main hobby in which a lot of hours have been invested and exist certain grade of expertise*. He probably decides what title to play following some quick critical reasoning and thanks to factual data about specific games. I mean, who the fuck could prefer simply to follow popular trends instead rationally compare information about mechanics, content or design to decide what game do it well in a specific set of contexts in his favourite ?

Aye, that's why I said:

if I don't know anything else about the game in question

Naturally I will investigate about the game I'm being suggested. Something as simple as pictures may be enough to turn me off if the game looks like this:

Like I said, popular doesn't necessarily mean good, but what the Codex also implies is that popular means it has to be bad. And that simply isn't the case (again, see The Witcher III).

 

[Taka-Haradin puolipeikko]

Does this game have name that's written with latin runes?

 

[Sigourn]

Does this game have name that's written with latin runes?

Apparently is called Moe Moe Daisensou Gendaiban.

 

[Joni Odin von Hassenstein]

I've also played Skyrim and Oblivion (like most people here, I presume) and they're fun, it would be stupid to deny that.

I don't know. In the beginning, I had great fun with them, but especially with Skyrim I lost interest after a while and never really had the urge to continue my old playthrough.

 

[DalekFlay]

How many have you actually seen? I've watched a lot of American movies that were made from the mid-1930s to the late-1950s, and very few felt like filmed theatre.

Tons, I'm way more into movies than games. Acting is a big part of that "feel" for me though, yes.

 

[howlingFantods]

You also say that you're stupid for not enjoying skyrim. Which means you consider Skyrim bad because you don't enjoy it.
But then if you think you're stupid for not enjoying it that means you think it's good but that you're too stupid to recognize its goodness.

I didn't say stupid. I used the word "defective".

Ok so you're not stupid; you're defective is what you're saying. Well we agree on that point, my friend.
Although if you weren't stupid you'd know that being stupid is a type of defectiveness.
And you'd know that "retard", the word YOU also used, means essentially mentally defective.
You have both said that you are, and demonstrated yourself to be, mentally defective.
Therefore, there is no sense in me arguing with you further.

Although I don't expect someone with an IQ smaller than my dick to understand that.

 

[Sigourn]

Ok so you're not stupid; you're defective is what you're saying. Well we agree on that point, my friend.
Although if you weren't stupid you'd know that being stupid is a type of defectiveness.

Sorry, but personal insults don't change the fact you were wrong, argued based on a wrong premise, and then made yourself look like a retard. So here's my

 

[zwanzig_zwoelf]

Most people can't get into shit from before their time. There are exceptions, I'm sure people are itching to reply to me to say they were born in 1999 and Betrayal at Krondor is their favorite game or whatever, but in a general sense most people don't go back further than their own experience by very much. I started PC RPGing with Lands of Lore and I'll admit it's hard for me to go back earlier than that, though I have here and there.

Solution: only allow your wife's son to play Wizardry and Akalabeth as his first games.

 

[Lady_Error]

Like I said, popular doesn't necessarily mean good, but what the Codex also implies is that popular means it has to be bad. And that simply isn't the case (again, see The Witcher III).

1) Nobody claims that.

2) Divinity: Original Sin is a better example of a popular game that is also great according to the Codex. Witcher III is much more controversial due to the shitty real-time combat.

 

[Sigourn]

Nobody claims that.

They actually do the moment they believe their niche taste is superior and therefore the popular games are for the dumb masses.

Divinity: Original Sin is a better example of a popular game that is also great according to the Codex. Witcher III is much more controversial due to the shitty real-time combat.

Well, it's #15 vs #32, so I went with The Witcher III.

 

[Generic-Giant-Spider]

This is how retarded you sound. Also imagine hating on McDonald's, of all places.

Of course the guy with shit taste would like a game with "rim" in it. EHEHEHEHEHE

 

[Lady_Error]

They actually do the moment they believe their niche taste is superior and therefore the popular games are for the dumb masses.

You're just claiming something with nothing to back it up.

Well, it's #15 vs #32, so I went with The Witcher III.

A higher placement for Witcher does not make it less controversial. It was #1 of the most downvoted games in the other vote.

 

[agentorange]

Undertale is shit and not an RPG.

 

[agris]

felipepepe i hope you’re including the last 3 pages of screeching into the reviews. This is the rpg codex we all know and... love?