Wasteland Sales, player stats and other business things

[Volourn]

"Has anyone considered the insane notion that maybe D:OS sold so many copies because it was a really good game?"

Games don't sell because they are good. They sell because they are popular. DOS is more 'popular' than WL2 but less popular than DA2. Are you gonna cliam that DA2 is better than DOS? The Codex awaits your answer, idiot.


Anyways, DOS is a fun little game but it is really overrated. LW2 is underrated but not surprising because people prefer dumbed down shit like ODS not old skool awesomesauce like WL2.

 

[imweasel]

Both D:OS and WL2 are good games.

 

[Mareus]

Has anyone considered the insane notion that maybe D:OS sold so many copies because it was a really good game? Unique engine, strong combat, very strong beginning area, lots of mod-support, etc.

No, no, no and a thousand times NO! While DOS is a step in the right direction and while it certainly hits most of the right notes with an old school crowd, it suffers from bad writing, "meh" dialogues, lackluster choices and consequences, over the top humor with drastic changes in tone, RPS minigame dialogues, etc. It does some things better then W2, like combat and graphics, but W2 is overall a much deeper and better game. Besides, most of the stuff people complain about W2 are either exaggerations, made up fabrications or exist in DOS and Fallout games as well, so its just double standards or facts devoid of context. I don't know... things like bugs, which plague both DOS and Fallout games to this day. Or bullshit arguments that assault rifles in W2 are the only viable weapon, which is not only total bullshit, but the same bullshit argument could be made even for Fallout and DOS. I could for example bullcrap about how Fallout big guns and energy weapons out-dps all other weapons by far (completely ignoring the fact that in the beginning of the game big guns and energy weapons are not really accessible, thus making other weapons very useful). Or I could bullcrap how DOS ranged classes have a huge advantage over melee (completely ignoring what is the purpose of a tank role in DOS). People are just idiots...

If I had to deal with the amount of contradicting beliefs and arguments as people who write this bullshit, I would probably suffer from cognitive dissonance. Besides, the very idea that there is a causal link between the sales and quality of games is totally ridiculous. I mean, when games such as Skyrim and Oblivion get huge sales, I somehow fail to see how anyone can even suggest a causal link between quality and sales. Sales is just PR, timing, graphics combined with media coverage.

 

[MicoSelva]

You should change your avatar, Mareus. Especially since you are talking about Wasteland 2. Might get confusing.

 

[Mareus]

You should change your avatar, Mareus. Especially since you are talking about Wasteland 2. Might get confusing.
sea

Nope. I had this avatar before sea even existed on RPGCodex. I vote for moderators adding a tag under sea's name that says Captain Rainbow, with stars and pink unicorns prancing around. That should help the confusion.

 

[MicoSelva]

You should change your avatar, Mareus. Especially since you are talking about Wasteland 2. Might get confusing.
sea

Nope. Because I am an obnoxious prick.

Thanks for the explanation.

 

[Cazzeris]

This one is a fitting avatar for sea:

 

[DeepOcean]

Has anyone considered the insane notion that maybe D:OS sold so many copies because it was a really good game? Unique engine, strong combat, very strong beginning area, lots of mod-support, etc.

No, no, no and a thousand times NO! While DOS is a step in the right direction and while it certainly hits most of the right notes with an old school crowd, it suffers from bad writing, "meh" dialogues, lackluster choices and consequences, over the top humor with drastic changes in tone, RPS minigame dialogues, etc. It does some things better then W2, like combat and graphics, but W2 is overall a much deeper and better game. Besides, most of the stuff people complain about W2 are either exaggerations, made up fabrications or exist in DOS and Fallout games as well, so its just double standards or facts devoid of context. I don't know... things like bugs, which plague both DOS and Fallout games to this day. Or bullshit arguments that assault rifles in W2 are the only viable weapon, which is not only total bullshit, but the same bullshit argument could be made even for Fallout and DOS. I could for example bullcrap about how Fallout big guns and energy weapons out-dps all other weapons by far (completely ignoring the fact that in the beginning of the game big guns and energy weapons are not really accessible, thus making other weapons very useful). Or I could bullcrap how DOS ranged classes have a huge advantage over melee (completely ignoring what is the purpose of a tank role in DOS). People are just idiots...

If I had to deal with the amount of contradicting beliefs and arguments as people who write this bullshit, I would probably suffer from cognitive dissonance. Besides, the very idea that there is a causal link between the sales and quality of games is totally ridiculous. I mean, when games such as Skyrim and Oblivion get huge sales, I somehow fail to see how anyone can even suggest a causal link between quality and sales. Sales is just PR, timing, graphics combined with media coverage.

I was all happy, thinking about making an edgy remark about sea talking shit of DOS then I saw that it was a fake sea and got sad, my KKK points opportunity lost.

 

[Mareus]

I was all happy, thinking about making an edgy remark about sea talking shit of DOS then I saw that it was a fake sea and got sad, my KKK points opportunity lost.

Well, I am not talking shit about DOS. As I said it hits most of the right notes with an old school crowd. I still give a game 8/10 which puts it up there with my favorite titles. Just for comparison, I give Skyrim, Oblivion and other pseudo RPGs a 3/10. So, DOS is a great game, but that does not mean it does everything right, nor does it mean it is on par with W2.

 

[sser]

As I said it hits most of the right notes with an old school crowd.

Sales is just PR, timing, graphics combined with media coverage.

As everyone knows, the old school crowd loves PR, timing, graphics, and advertising.

 

[Mareus]

As I said it hits most of the right notes with an old school crowd.

Sales is just PR, timing, graphics combined with media coverage.

As everyone knows, the old school crowd loves PR, timing, graphics, and advertising.

As my grandpa used to say. When all else fails, you can always resort to quote mining and strawmen. You sir, have just reached the next level in sophistry.

 

[Gangrelrumbler]

You should change your avatar, Mareus. Especially since you are talking about Wasteland 2. Might get confusing.
sea

Nope. Because I am an obnoxious prick.

Thanks for the explanation.

It's weird to see people not liking using "seniority rule" on a forum where I can't brofist, use shoutbox or view GD because my account is not one year old.

 

[MicoSelva]

I can't brofist, use shoutbox or view GD because my account is not one year old.

There is a reason for that. You would know if you read the forum rules.

 

[Gangrelrumbler]

I can't brofist, use shoutbox or view GD because my account is not one year old.

There is a reason for that. You would know if you read the forum rules.

I've read that. I didn't say that there is no reason, I've just said that the guy have right to the avatar if he was first especially since the forum rules favour older members.

 

[shadow9d9]

I can't brofist, use shoutbox or view GD because my account is not one year old.

There is a reason for that. You would know if you read the forum rules.

I've read that. I didn't say that there is no reason, I've just said that the guy have right to the avatar if he was first especially since the forum rules favour older members.

Until you had this discussion, I didn't even notice brofists. I've been here for many years, mostly just reading. Funny : ).

 

[sser]

As I said it hits most of the right notes with an old school crowd.

Sales is just PR, timing, graphics combined with media coverage.

As everyone knows, the old school crowd loves PR, timing, graphics, and advertising.

As my grandpa used to say. When all else fails, you can always resort to quote mining and strawmen. You sir, have just reached the next level in sophistry.

Yes, of course.

While DOS is a step in the right direction and while it certainly hits most of the right notes with an old school crowd, it suffers from [non-gameplay stuff]. It does some things better then W2, like [gameplay], but W2 is overall a much deeper and better game [just because].

 

[Saduj]

I agree with those who are saying that setting and graphics were a factor in D:OS selling better.

But I also think that D:OS benefitted from being released first. Maybe I'm just reading too much into negative comments on Steam and elsewhere, but it seems to me that a lot of people bought D:OS not really knowing what to expect from an "old school turn based rpg". They saw the game was getting some buzz and from the screenshots it looked like the MMOs and shitty ARPGs they like to play. So they bought it. And when they actually played the game, they found out they don't like this type of game at all. So when Wasteland 2 came out and was being described using a lot of the same terms that were applied to D:OS, they decided to skip it.

 

[Mareus]

(quotemining again) While DOS is a step in the right direction and while it certainly hits most of the right notes with an old school crowd, it suffers from [non-gameplay stuff]. It does some things better then W2, like [gameplay], but W2 is overall a much deeper and better game [just because].

You sir, are not only a dishonest prick, but also a complete and utter moron. I mean, even if I agreed with this idiotic assertion that choices and consequences, story, dialogues, drastic and abrupt changes in tone, etc have nothing to do with gameplay and are as you describe them non-gameplay stuff, I still fail to see why you think that a game with bad writing, meh dialogues, drastic changes in humor, lackluster choices and consequences, is better purely based on combat and graphics, mod support and starting area some of which later you described as gameplay while quotemining me. Ignoring here another moronic thing you wrote, namely defining graphics as gameplay; if graphics, mod support, starting area plus combat is what its all about to you then why do you think games like Planescape Torment, Arcanum, etc have such a reputation here on the codex? And if you agree that its not all about combat, mod support and graphics, then your argument sucks and you are still a moron.

Also, if you weren't devoid of reason you could have inferred what I think makes W2 a better game, based on what I wrote. Its not [just because].

Dude, you are a shitposter if I ever saw one.

 

[Onholyservicebound]

Has anyone considered the insane notion that maybe D:OS sold so many copies because it was a really good game? Unique engine, strong combat, very strong beginning area, lots of mod-support, etc.

No, because if being a good game were the criteria for sales then W2 would have sold more, and Bethesda would have gone bankrupt years ago. Not that I don't think D:OS is a good game, but the other reasons: Pretty graphics, bloom, co-op, combat-centric, light in tone, light in RPG mechanics, etc. Also keep it from being the kind of niche game that an "oldskool successor" like Wasteland 2 is. Although I will agree that the very strong beginning area contributed as well, it just isn't really something that I would consider the making of a good game, at least not to a "Hardcore" crowd, but yes, for the big percentage of people who play a game for a couple of hours then shelf it to move on to the next game in their bloated steam collection that's a great thing.

 

[Lord Azlan]

If you allow an honest opinion - no axe to grind - why haven't I purchased Wasteland 2 yet?

1. The early marketing of it just not reach me. I remember, possbily, reading something about it in PC Gamer, maybe Rock Paper Shotgun.

Nothing really promoting it in my world. I wasn't looking for it. The places that I did pass by such as SS2 forums, Ultima Codex - it wasn't there. CRPG Addict.

I am probably foolish to say - but it should have been promoted on Steam and GOG much earlier - but maybe as someone else said the new layout of Steam had meant "upcoming games" or whatever that section is called is harder to find now.

I only got fixed on it when I joined this forum in June - the same time as I became aware of DOS, LOX (which I did buy due to positive feedback on this forum), AOD (and many others).

2. The price - it is a bit steep. It just is. £30 in my region. The same price as DOS. On my shortlist of 100+ games I want to buy, it is on the wrong end when I sort by price.

Regarding the numbers sold - I just hope a lot of people will buy it on Steam sales. I really do. I remember reading lots of developers talking about Steam sales and how Steam saved their company or allowed them to do so many things. Because there are many levels of buyer. People that buy at full price when it comes out, people who buy when a game is patched and fixed. Those that wait for reviews. People that would never have ever bought it at all. AT ALL. But maybe would at 50% or 33%.

Grim 2 is £18 by the way - almost half price. I have no doubts about that game at all and know it will meet all my expectations.

3. I played W1 on C64 a very long time ago and it was something else - it was different. I love BT, but I believe W1 is better. Maybe my memories are clouded. W2 does not look like W1. It looks like Fallout. I have F1, F2, Tactics, F3 and am currently playing FNV. I don't want another Fallout, I want W2. I am still not convinced this is W2 despite being developed by the same guys.

4. 30GB required? Are you kidding me? I have a problem with that. Not that I don't have the space. Just that 30GB sends me the wrong signals. It tells me the game is not optimised. It tells me the game is messy. It tells me the game has lots of things clumped together. Just saying. Obviously all that is not true since I read all the posts on this foum about it. It just played a part in my decision making.

So I will buy - not sure when though.

 

[Infinitron]

Wasteland 2 was on Steam since December 2013 as an Early Access title, and given front page promotion several times during that period.

The game is 20GB on the disk, and (I think) a 10GB download.

 

[Lord Azlan]

Wasteland 2 was on Steam since December 2013 as an Early Access title, and given front page promotion several times during that period.

The game is 20GB on the disk, and (I think) a 10GB download.

Thanks for that info. Ah - well. Obviously it was publicised a lot then.

Hmmm - then I think the reason I have not bought it yet is the price and that it does not remind me of Wasteland - it reminds me of Fallout.

At my age - unless if has lot of bells and colours - I have difficulties remembering facts.

If W2 linked me emotionally to W1 I would have bought it already. Heck - I bought LoX only due to some emotional connection to some BT type combat.

 

[cvv]

I agree with those who are saying that setting and graphics were a factor in D:OS selling better.

But I also think that D:OS benefitted from being released first. Maybe I'm just reading too much into negative comments on Steam and elsewhere, but it seems to me that a lot of people bought D:OS not really knowing what to expect from an "old school turn based rpg". They saw the game was getting some buzz and from the screenshots it looked like the MMOs and shitty ARPGs they like to play. So they bought it. And when they actually played the game, they found out they don't like this type of game at all. So when Wasteland 2 came out and was being described using a lot of the same terms that were applied to D:OS, they decided to skip it.

That might've been a factor, yes, but I got another one - the grognard customer base is quite large, there's a reason LoG have sold a milion copies. And since DOS was the first of the upcomming slew of oldskool-ish epic isometric RPGs, the huge Baldur's Gate/IWD crowd just jumped on it. Shame W2 came out just two months after that, most of the 30-somethings don't have the time anymore to play more than one core game per a half-year. Hell, most of them are probably still going on with DOS (or, more likely, gave up halfway through since the second part of the game is so fucking awful).

Tldr - it's more than likely if W2 came out before DOS the sale figures would be quite different for both games.

 

[Infinitron]

there's a reason LoG have sold a milion copies

...Humble Bundles.

It's a $15 game that has been 75% off several times, you can't really compare.

 

[cvv]

there's a reason LoG have sold a milion copies

...Humble Bundles.

It's a $15 game that has been 75% off several times, you can't really compare.

Ok sure but it had sold at least half of that before it started to appear in the bargain bins.

Point is, there are several hundred k nostalgiafags that'll jump on the first game promising to sweep them back in time and let them relive their youth again, me included ofc. LoG did it for blobbers, DOS for isometric RPGs. Problem is most of them soon realize they don't like oldskool gaming (or even gaming in general) that much anymore and won't buy the next big thing.

Remember when LoG occupied the Steam bestseller list for weeks on end? Look at LoG2 - it's miles better in all respects than the original and just a week from the release it's not even in the Top40.