Vapourware Scam Citizen - Only people with too much money can become StarCitizens! WOULD YOU LIKE TO KNOW MORE?

[Kingston]

Or they could settle somehow. Throw them a few million to shut them up.

CIG doesn't have millions to throw around. They're running out of money, no matter what charts they put up on their website.

Brace for drama meltdowns of gargantuan proportions.

 

[ThisNameIsFree]

The weird thing about this lawsuit is that I thought CIG outright bought out the engine?

Yeah, they said so:

 

[Alienman]

So what would the fallout be if it crashed and burn? Lots of people will be out of a job of course, but what about the top dogs? I'm guessing all that crowd funded money will just disappear and nothing can be done about it? It will just be a failed project and life would go on, or will it have some consequences for Chris Roberts and company?

 

[thesheeep]

As long as you don't rape children, you remain mostly untouchable as long as you are rich.
So if when this burns, we can always look forward to more.

 

[Direwolf]

So what would the fallout be if it crashed and burn? Lots of people will be out of a job of course, but what about the top dogs? I'm guessing all that crowd funded money will just disappear and nothing can be done about it? It will just be a failed project and life would go on, or will it have some consequences for Chris Roberts and company?

Somebody will get stabbed. Chirs, Erin or Sandi. Shitizens are insane enough to do that.
Mark my words and bookmark this post. When Star Citizen collapses there will be deaths.

 

[scytheavatar]

In relation to this law suit, while I have no sympathies with ScamCitizen devs, Crytek should fuck themselves, they are claiming that Squadron 42 is another game and the contract was about only for one game and not two, this is Bethesda level legal bullshit. Both companies deserve to be erased from the face of the planet.

Squadron 42 is a standalone game, isn't it? If that's the case I am quite certain it counts as 2 games legally, although I could be wrong. Logically it should be considered a separate game at least and I don't see why Crytek shouldn't be entitled to license fees for it.

 

[coldcrow]

This is a monument to human stupidity.

 

[Dexter]

Shitizen Logic:

Yeah, they said so

Other examples:

 

[Drakron]

The weird thing about this lawsuit is that I thought CIG outright bought out the engine?

No, they are in CryEngine 3 that is CryTek and they arent selling it ... they are supposed to be in Lumberyard thats Amazon spinoff of 3 also licensed from CryTech.

 

[Direwolf]

The weird thing about this lawsuit is that I thought CIG outright bought out the engine?

No, they are in CryEngine 3 that is CryTek and they arent selling it ... they are supposed to be in Lumberyard thats Amazon spinoff of 3 also licensed from CryTech.

That's the issue. Nobody knows what the engine situation is. CIG changed their story about the engine multiple times over the years.

 

[AN4RCHID]

Jokes on crytek, S42 isn't in any engine

 

[scytheavatar]

The weird thing about this lawsuit is that I thought CIG outright bought out the engine?

No, they are in CryEngine 3 that is CryTek and they arent selling it ... they are supposed to be in Lumberyard thats Amazon spinoff of 3 also licensed from CryTech.

That's the issue. Nobody knows what the engine situation is. CIG changed their story about the engine multiple times over the years.

Most likely scenario is that CIG is seeking to switch over to Lumberyard, which will be a nightmare as both Lumberyard and Star engine has made modifications to Cryengine. So it would take a lot of work to merge those changes and set back development for a long time. It would also be something clearly prohibited by the contract with Crytek because Cryengine and Lumberyard are two different engines. "Buying the engine" seems to refer to buying the source code of the engine, that doesn't mean CIG owns the copyright to the engine. So unless CIG has brought out their contract with Crytek and is free to switch to another engine (and I find it hard to believe Skadden would want to be involved in the lawsuit in that case) then they are screwed.

 

[Telengard]

Can anyone tell me what they need 17 companies for?

Reasons for 17, huh?

• Setting up tax havens in multiple foreign countries to evade US tax rates while obeying local transfer laws in those foreign countries.
• Acquiring access to foreign investment opportunities in order to make parked money work at highest potential interest rates.
• Evasion of domestic business laws.
• Tax avoidance schemes to evade all taxes.
• Stock manipulation.
• Asset stripping.
• Money laundering.
• Embezzlement.
• Evasion of law enforcement.

 

[Latelistener]

they are screwed.

I don't think it will go that far. At worse, they'll just pay Crytek a few millions, and that's all.

 

[Vaarna_Aarne]

Jokes on crytek, S42 isn't in any engine

They could also argue that Star Citizen is not a game but a religion, going for tax-exempt status while at it!

 

[Grimlorn]

Can anyone tell me what they need 17 companies for?

Reasons for 17, huh?

• Setting up tax havens in multiple foreign countries to evade US tax rates while obeying local transfer laws in those foreign countries.
• Acquiring access to foreign investment opportunities in order to make parked money work at highest potential interest rates.
• Evasion of domestic business laws.
• Tax avoidance schemes to evade all taxes.
• Stock manipulation.
• Asset stripping.
• Money laundering.
• Embezzlement.
• Evasion of law enforcement.

Kind of thought crowdfunding fell under charitable donations and wasn't taxed. Is that wrong?

I thought of many of these reasons but it seemed like whatever they do they need to keep 3 studios running and employees paid. So funneling money around unless it is to evade taxes seems odd. 17 companies also raises red flags, so difficult to see how you'd be getting away with breaking any other laws as the company names are all similar and easy to trace. I mean if you're breaking laws wouldn't you want to name your company something completely different from your main company making it difficult to trace and track down.

 

[justincz]

If Reddit SC ran the court system:

- Only companies who have lots of money can sue. Otherwise it is a cash grab.
- $75000 is maximum damages for anything
-Suing publicly shows bad faith. You must first disclose the results of Shadow Court. Which is also bad faith.
-Goons are pulling all the strings.
-Money paid for goods and services not delivered is a pledge and therefore non-refundable unless the company feels like it.
-Money due for goods and services delivered under contract is greed and therefore not collectable.
-Only virtuous companies can sue. Any company that wants to sue a company you like is by definition not virtuous.
-The 'nuh-uh' and 'no, you are' defenses are valid.

Any more?

 

[Telengard]

Can anyone tell me what they need 17 companies for?

Reasons for 17, huh?

• Setting up tax havens in multiple foreign countries to evade US tax rates while obeying local transfer laws in those foreign countries.
• Acquiring access to foreign investment opportunities in order to make parked money work at highest potential interest rates.
• Evasion of domestic business laws.
• Tax avoidance schemes to evade all taxes.
• Stock manipulation.
• Asset stripping.
• Money laundering.
• Embezzlement.
• Evasion of law enforcement.

Kind of thought crowdfunding fell under charitable donations and wasn't taxed. Is that wrong?

Well, yes and no. There's donations-based crowdfunding, which funds will very likely be ruled non-taxable income, and then there's rewards-based crowdfunding, which is very likely (though not necessarily) going to be treated as income, and thus will be hit with an income tax. But then the crowdfunder could be a charity or a hobby, instead of a business, which can reverse that and send the funds back into non-taxable.

In this particular case, though, they're a business, and what is more they're getting additional monies through direct sales of items. Those additional sales are definitively income.

I thought of many of these reasons but it seemed like whatever they do they need to keep 3 studios running and employees paid. So funneling money around unless it is to evade taxes seems odd. 17 companies also raises red flags, so difficult to see how you'd be getting away with breaking any other laws as the company names are all similar and easy to trace. I mean if you're breaking laws wouldn't you want to name your company something completely different from your main company making it difficult to trace and track down.

If you're going to park your money in, say, the Caymans, you'll want a shell business down there to route funds to. And thus, with the amount of money that's gone through their fingers, they may have offshored a lot of money into multiple countries in order to stay within the limits of various laws while paying as little taxes as possible. As well as that whole maximum coverage a government offers thing, where they only insure up to a certain amount.

For investments, they'd also want a local shell so they could legally make trades and payments in that foreign country, as that is usually a fundamental requirement. If they have a lot of money to park, they may be investing it instead of putting it in a bank.

For stock manipulation, you want to remove losses from the parent and foist them off somewhere where investors won't see it when they come to the meeting. Since lots of investors (particularly investors like video game players) are of a type where you could use the same company name and put a II after it, and they'd never know of its existence and all the losses foisted onto it, it doesn't take much.

For laundering, you're taking illegal (probably mob) money for virtual items, moving the money offshore, maybe running it through a few shells, and then dropping it in a bank where it can be picked up again by the owner clean. The nature of virtual items and the relative retardedness of nerds means that this activity is virtually indistinguishable from how nerds spend their money, and thus wouldn't need much hiding over the short term.

For evasion of law enforcement, it would be about secretly moving money somewhere where you can make a quick exit to without getting caught, so when you take the money and run, they can't find you until it's too late.

 

[Vaarna_Aarne]

Invest in Dread Pirate Roberts' yacht.

 

[Country_Gravy]

Invest in Dread Pirate Roberts' yacht.

 

[Beastro]

If Reddit SC ran the court system:

- Only companies who have lots of money can sue. Otherwise it is a cash grab.
- $75000 is maximum damages for anything
-Suing publicly shows bad faith. You must first disclose the results of Shadow Court. Which is also bad faith.
-Goons are pulling all the strings.
-Money paid for goods and services not delivered is a pledge and therefore non-refundable unless the company feels like it.
-Money due for goods and services delivered under contract is greed and therefore not collectable.
-Only virtuous companies can sue. Any company that wants to sue a company you like is by definition not virtuous.
-The 'nuh-uh' and 'no, you are' defenses are valid.

Any more?

All this shows why court and the Rule of Law are so precious (and so fragile).

 

[scytheavatar]

Can anyone tell me what they need 17 companies for?

Reasons for 17, huh?

• Setting up tax havens in multiple foreign countries to evade US tax rates while obeying local transfer laws in those foreign countries.
• Acquiring access to foreign investment opportunities in order to make parked money work at highest potential interest rates.
• Evasion of domestic business laws.
• Tax avoidance schemes to evade all taxes.
• Stock manipulation.
• Asset stripping.
• Money laundering.
• Embezzlement.
• Evasion of law enforcement.

Kind of thought crowdfunding fell under charitable donations and wasn't taxed. Is that wrong?

Crowdfunding is for most case not charity and it would be rather outrageous if what that is clearly a for-profit endeavour is not taxed. If that's the case your Activision might as well make a Kickstarter for the next COD game just to pay less tax. And to me what CIG has done after the kickstarter can't really be considered crowd funding, it's a lot more pre-order of DLCs for a game that hasn't even truly left the pre-Alpha stage.

 

[Grimlorn]

Can anyone tell me what they need 17 companies for?

Reasons for 17, huh?

• Setting up tax havens in multiple foreign countries to evade US tax rates while obeying local transfer laws in those foreign countries.
• Acquiring access to foreign investment opportunities in order to make parked money work at highest potential interest rates.
• Evasion of domestic business laws.
• Tax avoidance schemes to evade all taxes.
• Stock manipulation.
• Asset stripping.
• Money laundering.
• Embezzlement.
• Evasion of law enforcement.

Kind of thought crowdfunding fell under charitable donations and wasn't taxed. Is that wrong?

Crowdfunding is for most case not charity and it would be rather outrageous if what that is clearly a for-profit endeavour is not taxed. If that's the case your Activision might as well make a Kickstarter for the next COD game just to pay less tax. And to me what CIG has done after the kickstarter can't really be considered crowd funding, it's a lot more pre-order of DLCs for a game that hasn't even truly left the pre-Alpha stage.

No that's retarded. COD games cost $100+ million to make, if you think gamers would crowd fund that you're a fool. Corporations absolutely would crowd fund games if they could get away with it because it means they don't have to spend $100 million on a game, not because of lower taxes. They already have the money, why would they have to pay taxes on it? It would be a PR disaster though. Hollywood actors already got a lot of shit for being millionaires and asking for a couple million to fund a movie they could have paid for themselves.

If there is a tax rate, then that means games that were kickstarted for $3-4 million had to pay probably 40% in taxes, including wire fees and Kickstarter's cut, they would have only had $1.5-2 million to work with. I don't believe that's true unless you can cite it. It would ruin the whole crowd funding platform if only 50% was making it to actually supporting projects

 

[scytheavatar]

Can anyone tell me what they need 17 companies for?

Reasons for 17, huh?

• Setting up tax havens in multiple foreign countries to evade US tax rates while obeying local transfer laws in those foreign countries.
• Acquiring access to foreign investment opportunities in order to make parked money work at highest potential interest rates.
• Evasion of domestic business laws.
• Tax avoidance schemes to evade all taxes.
• Stock manipulation.
• Asset stripping.
• Money laundering.
• Embezzlement.
• Evasion of law enforcement.

Kind of thought crowdfunding fell under charitable donations and wasn't taxed. Is that wrong?

Crowdfunding is for most case not charity and it would be rather outrageous if what that is clearly a for-profit endeavour is not taxed. If that's the case your Activision might as well make a Kickstarter for the next COD game just to pay less tax. And to me what CIG has done after the kickstarter can't really be considered crowd funding, it's a lot more pre-order of DLCs for a game that hasn't even truly left the pre-Alpha stage.

No that's retarded. COD games cost $100+ million to make, if you think gamers would crowd fund that you're a fool. Corporations absolutely would crowd fund games if they could get away with it because it means they don't have to spend $100 million on a game, not because of lower taxes. They already have the money, why would they have to pay taxes on it? It would be a PR disaster though. Hollywood actors already got a lot of shit for being millionaires and asking for a couple million to fund a movie they could have paid for themselves.

If there is a tax rate, then that means games that were kickstarted for $3-4 million had to pay probably 40% in taxes, including wire fees and Kickstarter's cut, they would have only had $1.5-2 million to work with. I don't believe that's true unless you can cite it. It would ruin the whole crowd funding platform if only 50% was making it to actually supporting projects

https://www.eetimes.com/author.asp?doc_id=1327192

http://www.everythingisaremix.info/blog/kickstarter-lessons-learned

Not sure where you get your 40% in taxes from, but you can read breakdown of crowdfunding like the ones I have linked above. Basically crowdfunding should never be seen as investments or donations, they should be seen as preorder of products that are not yet made. It is usual that after bad credit cards, kickstarter fees, paying people to design a campaign, cost of fulfilling rewards (taking up the biggest amount). taxes, legal fess, etc you will get about 60-70% of the final money available to make your product. It's either that or you can go beg for investors to give you money.

 

[Grimlorn]

https://www.eetimes.com/author.asp?doc_id=1327192

http://www.everythingisaremix.info/blog/kickstarter-lessons-learned

Not sure where you get your 40% in taxes from, but you can read breakdown of crowdfunding like the ones I have linked above. Basically crowdfunding should never be seen as investments or donations, they should be seen as preorder of products that are not yet made. It is usual that after bad credit cards, kickstarter fees, paying people to design a campaign, cost of fulfilling rewards (taking up the biggest amount). taxes, legal fess, etc you will get about 60-70% of the final money available to make your product. It's either that or you can go beg for investors to give you money.

Because generally when you receive millions in a gift or win the lottery you get taxed about 40%. At least in the US. But due to the nature of the small amounts of money being spent over thousands of people, I figured no tax would be involved because it would cripple the amount of money developers got and $3-4 million doesn't go far and games like Torment and PoE were in development for awhile.

Still your retard post only cites one blog post from someone who received 20k for video production. Not the same as millions for game development. Game companies are going to get tax breaks because the money goes into paying people's salaries, which goes back into the economy. That's why they've set up shop in certain cities in Canada and the US.