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Haba

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Which fucking games are we talking about? Or are you just spewing hypothetical bullshit that exists only in your own mind? Games have, if anything, become way more "offensive" and juvenile than they were back in the day. Just look at Saint's Row III or Mortal Kombat or sex in the Witcher or whatever.

Not that I mind any of that, I'm not the one making an argument that this shit has changed/should change gaming. But your argument crumbles to dust the moment you start identifying that there are plenty insanely politically incorrect games out there compared to earlier.

Either you are lying through your teeth or then you simply have not played games for a long time.

Custer's Revenge, Mortal Kombat, Night Trap, Walker, Harvester, Duke Nukem 3D, Carmageddon, Soldier of Fortune, Postal, Fallout...

Most of the time we're not talking about major things. But can you imagine the Cannon Fodder's wounded soldiers crying in pain as the bleed to death rendered in any modern game? Or selling your wife to slavery in Fallout 2?

OR even the damn TMNT
http://www.i-mockery.com/minimocks/sexual-games/19.php

You can't do that, you can't do this. Most of the time this coming from people who don't even like games.

Now I expect you'll throw in some handful of Manhunts and Saint Row's at me to show that controversy still exists... Yeah, when it is intended to be the main selling point. In the past people just made games with full creative control. Sometimes it wasn't very tasteful, sometimes it was crude - but often those small quirks are what made the whole experience memorable.

Political correctness and appealing to all possible minorities all the time is just one aspect of the profit maximizing game business today. Enjoy your tasteless, odourless games that offend no-one and challenge nobody. God forbid someone was frustrated or offended by your million dollar product!
 

Grunker

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Haba said:
Custer's Revenge, Mortal Kombat, Night Trap, Walker, Harvester, Duke Nukem 3D, Carmageddon, Soldier of Fortune, Postal, Fallout

How are these games "worse" than Saint's Row? Dude, they JUST released the new Mortal Kombat which is "worse" than ever on the gore, and Duke Nukem Forever is much, much, MUCH more juvenile and politically incorrect than Duke 3D ever was.



That Duke Nukem segment is followed by him meeting a set of twins being forcefully raped and impregnated by an alien to which Duke comments: "Looks like you're... fucked!"

A crucial part of that gameplay experience which makes the game memorable, I'm sure!

Now I expect you'll throw in some handful of Manhunts and Saint Row's at me to show that controversy still exists... Yeah, when it is intended to be the main selling point. In the past people just made games with full creative control. Sometimes it wasn't very tasteful, sometimes it was crude - but often those small quirks are what made the whole experience memorable.

"Now I expect you to tell me that political incorrectness still exists as much as ever, thus proving that I have no point, but whatever!"

Yeah, okay, pal. You might as well have just said "I'm not listening, lalalala!"

but often those small quirks are what made the whole experience memorable.

Even if I agreed with you that Duke Nukem blowing up raped naked chicks made that game memorable (it didn't - fucking excellent level design and shooting mechanics did), there's still plenty of that.

The fact that there are more games - and many of these are marketed to people who do not like rape jokes - isn't something that is the result of the "feminist agenda" unless you can prove otherwise. It's a result of 1) the old customer base growing up and wanting something else, 2) a wider, newer customer base that does not like rape jokes.

As customer bases, so creators. Many of the people who make games are older and have changed priorities. Read what many of these guys write about game development; they simply grew up and starting having priorities that weren't explosing limbs or chainsawed vaginas. I have difficulty seeing how that is such a fucking loss for gaming. Over the shoulder covershooting fucked up the FPS genre, not a lack of rapable women (although they still exist if that's the kind of thing you dig... go nuts, I suppose).

The claim I disputed was that "feminist scum" were part of a conspiracy that changed games. That is not the case. A changing customer base is changing games. If you were correct, there couldn't be Saint's Row 3, Mortal Kombat or Duke Nukem Forever. They would be blocked by the feminist scum. But there are. In the perspective that you can market these games to whatever juvenile fucks think blowing up naked chicks is an important part of their gameplay experience, you can have them.

What is happening here is some retard feminist troll/pseudo-academic airhead writes some random blog that no one will ever read about how The Witcher is sexist or whatever. Some rightwing internet nut finds it and everybody rages over how stupid the blog is. People go from that to saying "why do these miscreants control our vidya games, grrrrrr" when that's not the case.

You know how I know? Because if you frequent feminist airhead venues, the claims are identical. Over there, they claim the patriarchy control video games, and the male gaze owns everything and bladi-fucking-blah.

News-fucking-flash: Video games are produced to a market. The market wants different things. Thus, different kinds of video games are produced.

News-fucking-flash #2: People making and playing video games grew up. The above scene from Duke Nukem is no longer found funny by the vast majority of players, not those who, like us, like oldschool video games more than modern ones.

I detest modern video gaming because it is simplified, stupified bullshit, no because there are fewer rape jokes.

In short:

IIdeV0C.png
 

Blaine

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Yes Grunker, "women are whores" is clearly a fair and accurate representation of your opponents' position. How disingenuous of me to suggest otherwise!

Until you remove the vitriol and blatant logical fallacies from your posts, you have absolutely no leg to stand on questioning anyone else's integrity.
 

Grunker

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Until you remove the vitriol and blatant logical fallacies from your posts, you have absolutely no leg to stand on questioning anyone else's integrity.

:lol:

Once again the irony is so thick you could cut through it with a wooden spoon. The only one here using nothing but vitriol is you. Everyone else is mixing a good deal of vitriol with an ounce of argument - the Codex way. Why so many tears that I am taking jabs at people on the Codex? What is it about me that makes your butt weep blood in this way?

This will be my last comment to you on the subject, I feel 35% more retarded for even participating in this conversation.
 

Blaine

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The only one here using nothing but vitriol is you.

Pointing out obvious logical fallacies is not "vitrol," sorry. Exaggerated sarcasm, calling people "retarded" et al., deliberately mischaracterizing their positions (slander, for all intents and purposes), and so on definitely is.
 

Dexter

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In short:
iidev0c1ihqiw.png
I fixed your comic bro, the good thing about it is that I don't even need to change any of the expressions or reactions much since they fit 1:1 and I'm finding it equally sad that this is a thing that has to come up every few days/weeks for the sole retardation level of the arguments usually.
(For instance if you read some of the comments in the articles I linked in my previous comments they seem to be all going "Fuck games with deep characterization and personalization of their characters or those that make us play protagonists with whichs world view we will not agree 100%, give us more games like Skyrim/Mass Effect/Saint's Row with bland template characters, because we want to play as that thing!")

218852-ultimatesmx0y.jpg


Apparently: "I am unable to play as a female puppet in this kids game, this is sexism and I demand that you change your game to pander to me so I can do just that and apologize for your deeply sexist design!" or "I don't like how this character looks, CHANGE IT NAO!" by a bunch of people is somehow a valid argument now that needs to be "discussed".

5 years ago I couldn't have imagined that any of this could be a "thing" and didn't give a shit but places like Kotaku or RPS aren't some shitty marginalized blogs that nobody reads, but unfortunately rather wide-read and famous "gaming sites" and enough people seem to be taking their crap seriously at face value, which is rather unfortunate since there are the same complaints by the same type of people being hurdled towards TV series and movies for ages, but the persons involved there have already largely learned and reached a maturity required to not take them seriously and make whatever kind of fucking movie or TV show they want or they think will sell without having to stand trial to a bunch of bloggers or "game journalists".

Calling their opposition "scum" and "cancer".
Well I don't exactly agree with the choice words, but historically they kinda started it xD http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SCUM_Manifesto
And are still doing it today: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iARHCxAMAO0
 

Blaine

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Essentially, what Grunker is demanding are explicit examples of games that have been significantly affected by feminist/LGBT lobbying—with the qualification that the loudest and most obnoxious lobbyists should be characterized as "not real feminists/LGBT advocates" (liberals are completely in love with No True Scotsman these days), and also discounting the most convenient low-hanging fruit, such as BioWare games. Furthermore, even if you were to write a dissertation on the effect of lobbying, Grunker would (and already did, in advance) dismiss it out of hand. He's arguing the easiest side of this debate by a wide margin; furthermore, his MO as always is to frame the debate in such a way that his viewpoint can be the only correct conclusion, dismissing some assertions (the ones he doesn't like) as invalid for subjective reasons, and declaring other assertions (his own) as being eminently valid, again, for subjective reasons. He demands that you agree with his assessments and approach the debate in the way he deems appropriate, and if you don't, you're an idiot.

Also, he seems to feel that if he can anticipate your counter-argument in advance, then it's "been got" and no longer "counts." I find this highly amusing.

This is why he gets super-mad at me—I refuse to play that game. I frequently choose to ignore his arguments when they're built upon subjective judgments that I disagree with in the first place. In answering them directly, I'd be implying agreement with their fundaments, which of course is what he wants.

Personally, I refuse to provide examples of the actual, tangible effects of feminist/LBGT lobbying on games, both because it's quite simply too much work for a bunch of forum arguing, and also because that's beside the point. Whether or not they have a tangible effect on the gaming industry, idiotic lobbyists and professional victims do exist, and I enjoy making fun of them.

Grunker has a few good points hidden within his self-serving argumentation framework, namely that there are more female gamers, that some gamers and developers are aging and becoming more mature themselves, and so on. It's too bad a potentially respectable moderate position is buried under so much fiddle-faddle.
 

Blaine

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So this is what GD looks like...

Indeed, complete with unhelpful one-off snide comments.











[This post has been filed away in Grunker's PROOF BLAINE IS A HYPOCRITE!!! dossier.]
[This post has been filed away in WhiskeyWolf's CREATIVE IDEAS ON HOW TO EDIT POSTS dossier.]
 

Overboard

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trais

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Is this game going to fun for filthy casuals?
I'm not a space-sim nerd, but some of this game's ideas seems interesting and I'm curious if it's gonna be something I would be able to enjoy. Last few pages of this thread are mostly filled with Blaine's and Grunker's gay mating ritual, so reading this crap has not been really helpful. Quick "yes/no" answer would be most appreciated.
 

Blaine

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Is this game going to fun for filthy casuals?
I'm sure it will be. People who play for 40+ hours per week will likely be better pilots than you, but that's to be expected, and the entire game won't just be one-vs-one dogfights.

Last few pages of this thread are mostly filled with Blaine's and Grunker's gay mating ritual

:lol: Yeah, sorry about that.

Here's an excellent FAQ (sprinkled with the guy's personal opinions, so take it with a grain of salt): http://www.eidolonius.com/
 
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Codex 2012 Codex 2013 Codex 2014 PC RPG Website of the Year, 2015 Codex 2016 - The Age of Grimoire Make the Codex Great Again! Grab the Codex by the pussy Insert Title Here RPG Wokedex Strap Yourselves In Codex Year of the Donut Codex+ Now Streaming! Enjoy the Revolution! Another revolution around the sun that is. Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Codex USB, 2014 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 BattleTech Bubbles In Memoria A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag. My team has the sexiest and deadliest waifus you can recruit. Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
Those ships are supposed to be atmosphere-capable, yes. No, there won't be atmospheric flight in game at launch. It hasn't been flat out ruled out in the future though.

Edit: That was my 1000th post, weeeee!
 

J_C

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Why do they look like modern fighter jets? Are there "in atmosphere" flights in the game too?
Even if there is no atmospheric flight in the game, they should look atmosphare capable, if they want to look realistic. Because lorewise and techwise, these ships are able to fly in the atmosphere.
 

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